I think I'd prefer to have Killorn and Henrique split up, as I feel like the two of them get to the net more than anyone else in that top 6.
Speculation: 2023-24 Roster Thread
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any info would be appreciated. I tried to listen to it but couldn't get through 10 minutes. Just cannot stand listening to those guys. It's like trying to listen to guys at a frat party have a serious conversation.
There is a snip it on their twitter feed where Rico talks about the "pack mentality". Maybe I'm reading too much into his comments but sure sounded like trading Deslauriers didn't sit well with Rico. Paraphrasing but I think he said, "we traded Deslauriers for whatever reason". Assuming I inferred that correctly, I 100% agree with him. He was worth more than a 3rd round pick and I'd have happily given him that contract that Philly did.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I just find it odd that most of the point totals posted here are, on the whole, quite optimistic, yet, when reading other threads all I read is how the team will still be shit next year and is still years from respectability or competing for the playoffs. Plenty of "top 5 draft pick" predictions sprinkled around.
I'm not one for making predictions, but this team has some good young talent, a new GM, and a new coach who both appear to be upgrades over the past. It shouldn't be that hard to have some optimism for a team you supposedly like and give them a chance before predicting all the negative stuff I read around here.
Oh well.I think that's stacking the deck a bit too much. To start, I'd like to see:
Killorn - Zegras - Terry
Henrique - McTavish - Strome
Jones - Carlsson - Vatrano
McGinn - Groulx/Carrick - Silfverberg
If Carlsson is proving he belongs in the NHL, then maybe you give him more responsibility (and better linemates).
- Sep 21, 2018
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I'd flip Killorn and Henrique. Rico has always played well with Terry and he can cover for Z on faceoffs like last year if he needs to.
Everything else is pretty spot on. The defense, however, is still an enigma to project. I agree with the thinking that Verbeek should find a LHD partner for Drysdale, but I'd be surprised if he did. The left side is crowded as is and that's not taking into account a surprise performance by Minty or Zell in training camp/preseason, so I think what we have is what we have.
Fowler - Gudas
Vaaks - Drysdale
Hagg/Lacombe - Boosh (haven't learned to spell his name yet)
White
DavidBL
Registered User
My ear buds died before I could finish. He thinks players like Des are still a necessary part of the game and ever team should have them nut also talked about how everyone should be ready to jump in if anything happens. Doesn't mean you need to fight everyone just be ready. Talked about how ended up in a scrap with Iginla.
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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I’m loving how our guys are buying into “ be ready to jump into the fight “ GM PVs vision coming into the job to begin with. Need to start seeing it manifest
DavidBL
Registered User
You're not a good team unless you have multiple PPG forwards and a Norris candate.I just find it odd that most of the point totals posted here are, on the whole, quite optimistic, yet, when reading other threads all I read is how the team will still be shit next year and is still years from respectability or competing for the playoffs. Plenty of "top 5 draft pick" predictions sprinkled around.
I'm not one for making predictions, but this team has some good young talent, a new GM, and a new coach who both appear to be upgrades over the past. It shouldn't be that hard to have some optimism for a team you supposedly like and give them a chance before predicting all the negative stuff I read around here.
I just find it odd that most of the point totals posted here are, on the whole, quite optimistic, yet, when reading other threads all I read is how the team will still be shit next year and is still years from respectability or competing for the playoffs. Plenty of "top 5 draft pick" predictions sprinkled around.
I'm not one for making predictions, but this team has some good young talent, a new GM, and a new coach who both appear to be upgrades over the past. It shouldn't be that hard to have some optimism for a team you supposedly like and give them a chance before predicting all the negative stuff I read around here.
That’s the thing. Should not be basing how they will do next season off of last season. New coach and system. Improved the Top 6 and D group. That’s before with any chances of the younger players taking strides. So many question marks. Sure things could be bad but they can also be good. It’s a lot of uncertainty but it’s in either direction.
Our kids can easily take some giant steps this season, maybe Carlsson immediately impresses, and could be on the bubble.
If they are still bottom 5, the rebuild is not working, imo. Because it means our kids have not progressed enough, and with the skill we have in our kids like you said, should start to see them climbing out of the cellar on that youth improvement alone.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
You don't have to convince me they can have a very good year and be competitive. I'm not the one champing at the bit to be the first to start a tank thread next year. They're already lining up to do that.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I disagree that if we finish bottom-5, then the rebuild is not working.
When PV reset the rebuild, he blew up the team, his own words. This means we're continuing to build through the draft, which will take several years. Looking at all of our acquisitions outside the org and none of them look like foundation core pieces, they're all support pieces for the future. The future is not now. The future is in the future.
We are waiting for McTavish and Carlsson to be NHL established top-6 centers. We could be a year or three years away for both. Because Drysdale lost a year of development last year, we are going into this season with too many unknowns with our projected two NHL youths in Drysdale and rookie LaCombe. PV stated that both Minty and Zell need to improve their defensive structures, which implies they'll be in the AHL to start the season. Hinds and Helleson are probably AHL bound as well. Due to injuries, we don't know what we have in Vaaks and we let go our best defensive prospect in the AHL in RD Axel Andersson.
The process looks good. The outcome will take years to properly assess. Because PV reset the rebuild, he's afford a few years of making mistakes. Last year was a huge mistake at both the NHL and AHL levels. This year, PV has invested in more physicality on the backend at both the NHL and AHL levels (brought back D Trevor Carrick). IMO, we have two more development seasons as we're waiting on our blueline and our top-6 centers to mature into the NHL.
PV's drafts are very good and lots of darts. The 2022 draft class looks great right now, but the 2023 draft has only Carlsson worth boasting about. Again, it's still too early. Hvidston is proof that we can't judge prospects just on draft day.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I'd prefer the OG's lineup. A Killorn-Mac-Strome line means out of the top-6, all the heavies are on one line. Zegras and Terry need a heavy, gritty player on that line to have a good balance. Killorn can win puck battles in the corners in the DZ to help not keep us hemmed in as well as just goes straight to the top of the crease in the OZ.
Also, McTavish could use Rico's experience at center in his ear for the season or 3/4ths of the season. We let Mac learn to play center in the NHL on his own last year.
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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“ reset the rebuild “ didn’t happen, that’s a made up narrative I see in this discord . That somehow part of the ending phases of a rebuild don’t include trading veteran players who want to cash in on their final big contracts. Also, said players never got it done for us when we were good. There was no reset, our GM has had the same ideas/plans as when he was pitching the Samuelis on why he should become gm. That’s my honest take. I know it will come with pushback
What am I missing with Hvidston? His numbers look average in his D+1. I mean I’m sure they are good for a 5th round pick, but am I just not seeing what is special about him. Siderov out produced him by a good margin in his draft year. With that said I’m only looking at stats, and haven’t watched him at all in the WHL so maybe it’s more of a “you gotta watch him to see” type things.
- Sep 21, 2018
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This thought did cross my mind, but I think McTavish is already better suited down the middle than Zegras even with 1 less year in the NHL.
With Carlsson eventually taking over the 1C spot, something will have to give between McTavish and Zegras. I don't see all three of them down the middle as soon as 2024-2025. This year, sure, because we don't really know how ready Carlsson is yet. And that's if he sticks with the team (although that might be on the wing anyway).
KelVarnsen
Registered User
McTavish and I don't think it is particularly close.
Three years from now? I think Id take Carlsson.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Good questions.
Guess | Who | | | | | | | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Player | Age | Games | G | A | Pts | PPG | | +/- |
Player A | 17 | 30 | 14 | 17 | 31 | 1.03 | | 6 |
| 18 | 66 | 31 | 26 | 57 | 0.86 | | 30 |
| | | | | | | | |
Player B | 17 | 58 | 13 | 19 | 32 | 0.55 | | -5 |
| 18 | 59 | 21 | 44 | 65 | 1.10 | | 15 |
| | | | | | | | |
Player C | 17 | 67 | 4 | 24 | 28 | 0.42 | | 11 |
| 18 | 68 | 30 | 30 | 60 | 0.88 | | 43 |
All the players are from the CHL. Which player was drafted by the Ducks in the 1st round, 2nd round, and 5th round?
Player A = Gaucher (2022 Rd 1, 22nd OA)
Player B = Hvidston (2022 Rd 5, 139th OA)
Player C = Myatovic (2023 Rd 2, 33rd OA)
Instead of using their draft year, I went and looked at their ages for direct comparisons. A year's difference in age is significant in body and skill development. When they were drafted, Gaucher and Myatovic had three years with their respective CHL teams, but Hvidston only had two seasons.
All three forwards are defensive forwards who are 6'2 or taller. Only Gaucher was the known defensive forward with notable offense in their age 17 and 18 seasons. Myatovic's offense popped up in his age 18 season, his draft season (D+0). Hvidston's offense showed up in his age 18 season, his D+1 season.
Hvidston is a Sept baby, making him one of the youngest players drafted in the 2022 draft. He is only three months older than Myatovic. Hvidston would not qualify for the 2022 draft if he was born a week or so later; he would be in the same draft as Myatovic.
In a 2023 draft review, Asst GM Madden said that Myatovic is an example of a elite support player for the top-6, Hvidston appears to be developed in the same mold.
Here is Defend the Nest's review of Hvidston's 7-AHL games last year:
Player B = Hvidston (2022 Rd 5, 139th OA)
Player C = Myatovic (2023 Rd 2, 33rd OA)
Instead of using their draft year, I went and looked at their ages for direct comparisons. A year's difference in age is significant in body and skill development. When they were drafted, Gaucher and Myatovic had three years with their respective CHL teams, but Hvidston only had two seasons.
All three forwards are defensive forwards who are 6'2 or taller. Only Gaucher was the known defensive forward with notable offense in their age 17 and 18 seasons. Myatovic's offense popped up in his age 18 season, his draft season (D+0). Hvidston's offense showed up in his age 18 season, his D+1 season.
- Birthdates
- Gaucher: Nov 6, 2003
- Hvidston: Sept 11, 2004
- Myatovic: Dec 1, 2004
Hvidston is a Sept baby, making him one of the youngest players drafted in the 2022 draft. He is only three months older than Myatovic. Hvidston would not qualify for the 2022 draft if he was born a week or so later; he would be in the same draft as Myatovic.
In a 2023 draft review, Asst GM Madden said that Myatovic is an example of a elite support player for the top-6, Hvidston appears to be developed in the same mold.
Here is Defend the Nest's review of Hvidston's 7-AHL games last year:
Connor Hvidston
7 Games – 1 Goal, 0 Assists – 1 Point
As the lone CHL prospect to join the Gull as a black ace after his Swift Current Broncos failed to make the postseason, Hvidston was a much needed breath of fresh air and as noted above – instantly helped to turn around the fortunes of the likes of Josh Lopina. He was eased into action at first but quickly gained rapport with his line-mates Lopina and Slavin on a line that became an easy go-to choice to shift momentum or keep things going in the offensive zone. The 2022 fifth round selection had a great post-draft season, finishing with 65 points in 59 games and third on the Broncos. It was this output that perhaps made 2021 fifth round pick Sean Tschigerl expendable as the Ducks opted not to sign him before the two year deadline nor did they bring him in as Black Ace to the Gulls when his Calgary Hitmen were bounced from the WHL postseason. But enough about that. Hvidston looked great in his first tease of the AHL as an 18 year old and even had me lamenting that he would likely be able to handle the minutes were he somehow able to play for the Gulls before legally allowed to by the CHL-NHL transfer agreement. His lanky frame smoothly flowed around the ice and allowed him to be in all the right places at all the right times – most memorably scoring his first professional goal when he chased down a dump in and pounced on a turn-over to fire it by the surprised Oscar Dansk of the Calgary Wranglers. Sadly we won’t see him again until the end of next season as a Black Ace once again – depending on how his Swift Current Broncos do next season.
=== Hvidston v Sidorov ===
Hvidston and Sidorov are two different types of players. One is a shutdown forward and the other is a scoring forward with skating issues. Sidorov is a re-entry prospect in the 2023 draft and selected in the bottom half of the 3rd round.
Another high scoring forward with skating issues was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2021 draft in Sasha Pastujov.
Here is The Hockey Writer's projection for Sidorov
NHL Potential
Sidorov is a tough player to project. On one hand, his ability to put the puck in the net is as good as anyone’s in his draft class and could land him a spot on the second line in the right system, where he could become a 30-goal, 50-point player. However, his lack of high-end skating and competitiveness may leave him as no more than a depth option in the NHL, struggling to secure a roster spot. In any case, he’ll need some time to develop in the minors to round out his game.
At the Dev camp and Dev camp 3v3 exhibition, Sidorov showed he's got moves like Jagger. Scoring isn't a problem, but his skating and motor issues could be when playing at a higher level than the CHL.
I forgot that was Siderovs second go at the draft. I guess I just need to get more time watching these guys, at this point though I’m starting to lose track of all these shutdown types we’ve drafted as of late. I trust Verbeek and really like the Gaucher pick, but really think we need to hit on a guy who can play wing on the top 2 lines. Pastujov seems like the only one at this point, and we still need to see how he does in the AHL. I don’t hold out hope for Tracey and Perreault at this point.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
2017-18: Playoff team.
2018-19: Finished 8th worst record in league.
2019-20: Finished 5th worst record in league.
2020-21: Finished 2nd worst record in league.
2021-22, Feb 3rd: Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific when PV was hired.
When PV was hired, detroitnews.com relayed this PV quote, "This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."
2021-22: Finished 10th worst record in league and 7th in Pacific.
On an Oct 20, 2022 article from the Athletic: , "It’s not fair … me coming in two, three months and then going with a new guy,” Verbeek said. “And in the sense that I just blew up the team (at the trade deadline)."
2022-23: Finished worst record in league and 8th in Pacific.
You honest take belies what was presented and transpired. Does turning into a contender mean finishing last overall?
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Completely agree with needing a top-6 winger in our system. Hopefully, that can resolved with next year's first round pick.
The elite support for top-6 idea does sound like a good idea in Myatovic and Hvidston. Both are defensively aware, but also have some offense to not be a complete waste in the top-6. We could include Nesterenko in the support role. We need that winger that can go into the corner boards to dig out a puck, win puck battles, and be the defensive backbone. Rooch is often forgotten to be the glue between Teemu and Kariya. We have two sets of dynamic duos if we split them up.
Zegras - McTavish - xxx
xxx - Carlsson - Terry
We still have the two, late 1st rounders in LW Tracey and RW Perreault in our system. Maybe they come to life this season?
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Zegras needs more defensive support than offensive support. Mac needs help in becoming a better pro at center and Rico can do just that.
And with Carlsson eventually displacing Zegras (maybe), then this is the only year that Mac can learn from Rico b/c I don't think we're keeping Rico for long.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I agree it's a longshot for them to make the playoffs. But there is a lot to look forward to with this group. Hopefully get off to a good start and ride the wave. Who knows where it can go. It would be fun to be playing meaningful games in March while a few points out of the playoffs.
It isn't the predictions here that I find discouraging. They are actually pretty positive on the whole. But many other threads tend to have comments about how we are still a bottom of the barrel team still expecting a high draft pick. That attitude sucks. There's plenty of time to shit on whoever deserves it at the end of next year. Heaven knows, we're all capable of doing that when it's called for.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
I get what you're saying but I'm not sure it's really shitting on anyone by saying this team might not be very good. There are the makings of 3 decent offensive lines but there's no depth, so we're an injury away from plugging holes with guys who don't belong. The defense is even more acute and already has guys playing out of position before injuries set in. I hope Cronin is right and the playoffs are in reach, that'd be a pretty amazing feat honestly. It'd mean the end of the rebuild, which I'm more than ready for. I'll enjoy the season but I'm prepared for it to be only a moderate success.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I don't really disagree with what your saying. Perhaps I should just say I'd prefer to approach the season as the glass being half full vs half empty.
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