Speculation: 2023-24 Roster Thread

[ohcomeonref]

This may have been said already but with the non-tenders of Comtois and Olle, none of our 2017 picks remain in the organization

A black stain on the Ducks drafting history.

 

[Arthuros]

A black stain on the Ducks drafting history.

I don't think I expected much out of Olson, Badini or OEE. I don't remember what I thought of Morand beyond being Comtois' buddy (which I guess was a red flag!).

Comtois could have been great, but...nope.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

I don't think I expected much out of Olson, Badini or OEE. I don't remember what I thought of Morand beyond being Comtois' buddy (which I guess was a red flag!).

Comtois could have been great, but...nope.

Comtois was lazy and didn't put in the work needed.

 

[Arthuros]

Comtois was lazy and didn't put in the work needed.

Zero disagreement there. Will be interesting to see who takes the gamble on him.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Zero disagreement there. Will be interesting to see who takes the gamble on him.

His summer workouts consisted of playing summer roller hockey leagues.. He really didn't have a workout regime.. Need to keep that body in shape for the grind..

 

[Kalv]

A black stain on the Ducks drafting history.

That draft has not produced anything good in the 2nd round and below outside of Robo. Dallas made out like thieves but that seems to be extremely week draft. Batherson is the only other one worth noting and it was rumored back then we were in on him but he was picked 1 pick before us.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

I mean, I agree about his scoring on the Penguins, that's why I split them. His hit stats are relevant, though. Impactful hits? That's even more arbitrary than the hits stat was already. You didn't say he doesn't outright level people enough for your liking, you said he's one of the softest players in the league. I'm not a big McGinn fan but that's not a fair assessment.

As for fights, Comtois had one fight more this season than Ryan Strome (who's not exactly my favorite Duck either, but he gets no credit in these discussions and he probably should get a little). He had two each of the last three seasons. He'll stick up for his teammates if he feels like it, and that's great, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he's Deslauriers out there. He's as inconsistent with that as with everything else.
You cited the 2021 opener. Comtois was one of the guys on the ice doing nothing when Gibson got run (and someone did get thrown out for going after Copp later, but it wasn't him).


How's that? Comtois had one more point than Grant in 200 more minutes played. Grant had slightly more total ice time per game, but he also still had the higher points/60, even though that includes his two and a half minutes per game of penalty killing (which is the only thing that puts his ATOI above Comtois). I still just don't think he's the guy to cite as nothing but defense while trying to defend Comtois' production.
I mostly brought up the power play to make the case that there's more to physical play than just hits, which, if not even hits matter then eh. But, feels like it should be pointed out his battling in front of the net absolutely did matter on more goals than just the ones he got assists for.


I'm completely with you on Benoit, unless Verbeek has something else still up his sleeve, and on the general principle. I just have no faith in Comtois deciding to either play hockey or punch faces on any given day. Handing the guy with attitude and work ethic issues an unearned 2 million dollar contract because he might deign to throw a big hit now and then is no way to build a good team culture either. And I'd frankly rather have Vatrano in a scrum, at least you know he's going to make himself a pain in the ass.

Softest player in the league might be a bit harsh but he's probably one of the softer bottom 6 guys. A top 6 guy like Marner can afford to be soft. McGinn really can't.

Comtois could be better when it comes to the rough stuff and im hoping a new coach will change that I find his level of toughness is much higher than McGinns / Leasons. If someone did go after Copp it must've not been an ass whooping because I truly don't remember anyone doing anything meaningful to him. It needed to be an ass whooping. Just like Ekholm needed a beating for spearing Zegras this past season. I actually like Strome and Vatranos toughness but I feel like they maybe do it because nobody else does. Strome should not be close to Comtois in fights, I'd hope a coach could make that clear to Comtois but maybe its wishful thinking at this point.

As for Grant / Comtois. I wouldn't look at either for production but I lean towards Comtos because we need toughness more than we need defensive forwards and Comtois although appearing to be getting softer may actually help that area. I see that Comtois did play more overall so that was my mistake though.

Battling in front of the net isn't what it once was. You can't really get hacked or cross checked anymore, so I'm not sure i'd say its a psychical part of the game these days. The effective players infront of the net these days are usually the ones getting tip in goals like Joe Pavelski, who doesn't really have to be an enforcer to accomplish that.

Because you can only carry 2 extra forwards, and I’d rather have flexibility. Comtois isn’t waiver eligible, the two young guys are. Carrick can play all the forward positions, Comtois can’t. Comtois had a bad attitude in practice, none of the others do. Jones played in 69 games last year, let’s see what happens. The young guys are waiver exempt, Comtois isn’t. Unless Leason gets moved, we have 13 forwards needing waivers to be sent down. Comtois isn’t the guy I want blocking every prospect in San Diego. Neither is Leason, but he’s under contract. Groulx will be waiver eligible this year, I’d rather see what he can do that give Comtois a third chance to see if he’s taking his career seriously yet.

TLDR - I don’t think Comtois is all that good at the things he does best, is a bad influence in the locker room, and blocks roster flexibility.

I feel like moving Leason and McGinn addresses a lot of this. Surely someone wants these two?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

A black stain on the Ducks drafting history.

for the "trust Madden" people.....alot of drafts netting little in productivity for the Anaheim Ducks

 

[Boo Boo]

A black stain on the Ducks drafting history.

This seems like an over reaction considering our first pick was a mid to late second rounder that year?

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Madden is good for defense but garbage at the rest…. Was never a trust in madden guy but when he picks a dman I’m on board

 

[Boo Boo]

Madden is good for defense but garbage at the rest…. Was never a trust in madden guy but when he picks a dman I’m on board

I mean he definitely hit on terry. Definitely hit on zegras. Mctavish looks promising and Leo might be the best of them. I’m struggling to see the garbage here.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Terry hitting that later in the draft is pure luck the rest are top 9 picks which are for the most part easier to land nhl players

 

[Firequacker]

Softest player in the league might be a bit harsh but he's probably one of the softer bottom 6 guys. A top 6 guy like Marner can afford to be soft. McGinn really can't.

Comtois could be better when it comes to the rough stuff and im hoping a new coach will change that I find his level of toughness is much higher than McGinns / Leasons. If someone did go after Copp it must've not been an ass whooping because I truly don't remember anyone doing anything meaningful to him. It needed to be an ass whooping. Just like Ekholm needed a beating for spearing Zegras this past season. I actually like Strome and Vatranos toughness but I feel like they maybe do it because nobody else does. Strome should not be close to Comtois in fights, I'd hope a coach could make that clear to Comtois but maybe its wishful thinking at this point.

Yeah it wasn't much with Copp, I mostly remembered it for being shut down way too quickly. More 'there was an attempt' than anything, but even an attempt is more than we got for a lot of this season. I think you're probably right about Strome doing it out of necessity, though less so with Vatrano.

As for Grant / Comtois. I wouldn't look at either for production but I lean towards Comtos because we need toughness more than we need defensive forwards and Comtois although appearing to be getting softer may actually help that area. I see that Comtois did play more overall so that was my mistake though.

Battling in front of the net isn't what it once was. You can't really get hacked or cross checked anymore, so I'm not sure i'd say its a psychical part of the game these days. The effective players infront of the net these days are usually the ones getting tip in goals like Joe Pavelski, who doesn't really have to be an enforcer to accomplish that.

It's not the same as in the past, but I'm not sure I'd agree that it's gone far enough to not qualify as physical play. Though it does depend a lot on the team that's defending.

Ultimately, I really don't disagree with anything you've said about the idea of Comtois. It's just the reality of Comtois was much less valuable, and by now seems unlikely to change. I have a hard time blaming coaching when he had what looked like his breakout season under the same coach, and lack of motivation is maybe the one problem Eakins' teams generally didn't have. So as a practical matter, handing him a contract based on mostly wishful thinking still just doesn't seem like a good use of time or resources at all, and IMO is much more likely to have bad effects on the culture than good ones.

 

[Kalv]

Terry hitting that later in the draft is pure luck the rest are top 9 picks which are for the most part easier to land nhl players

How is Terry pure luck? You can denounce any good pick he made then.


We certainly can improve in picking forwards, but people here need to realize the draft pool is what it is. If other teams also did not get a meaningful pick that year, that should signal that there was nothing to choose from... like in that 2017 or 2018 draft. 2016 really sucks because we could had ended up with Tage Thompson and Jordan Kyrou instead of Jones and Steel.

But otherwise it's like complaining we didn't sign McDavid in free agency when he wasn't even available. Or anything remotely close to that. What also worries me about Verbeek and I'm not sure how much that was the case with Murray, is that we pick for need instead of BPA. For example, in 2019 we needed skill so we went with Tracey over Pinto.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

for the "trust Madden" people.....alot of drafts netting little in productivity for the Anaheim Ducks

One can "trust Madden" but still in be in touch with reality.

 

[AngelDuck]

there seems to have been a few drafts in a row that were pretty poor(2015,2016, 2017) and have kinda contributed to just how awful we’ve been the last 3-4 seasons.

I’m hoping it was an anomaly and the ship has now been righted

 

[Boo Boo]

there seems to have been a few drafts in a row that were pretty poor(2015,2016, 2017) and have kinda contributed to just how awful we’ve been the last 3-4 seasons.

I’m hoping it was an anomaly and the ship has now been righted

We drafted a full on 37 goal scorer that year.

 

[McDonald19]

I mean he definitely hit on terry. Definitely hit on zegras. Mctavish looks promising and Leo might be the best of them. I’m struggling to see the garbage here.

Terry has probably been his only forward gem outside the early first round picks in the last 10-11 years.

The Perreault and Tracey picks aren’t looking great, though they still have time.

His 2nd-3rd round forward picks were duds from 2012-2017:

Morand, Badini, Nattinen, Gates, Sideroff, Sorensen, Kerdiles. Comtois being the only NHLer, now a UFA.

 

[AngelDuck]

We drafted a full on 37 goal scorer that year.

Looking at those 3 drafts as a whole is pretty sad though. One impact player out of like 20 (?)selections. Some grinders, roster players, etc. but pretty weak

I think our scouts have done a great job. But I’m just saying those 3 seasons do not look good. It happens

 

[Mr Rogers]

Terry has probably been his only forward gem outside the early first round picks in the last 10-11 years.

The Perreault and Tracey picks aren’t looking great, though they still have time.

His 2nd-3rd round forward picks were duds from 2012-2017:

Morand, Badini, Nattinen, Gates, Sideroff, Sorensen, Kerdiles. Comtois being the only NHLer, now a UFA.

The Ducks have really struggled to find depth scorers, it's kinda mind-boggling. I keep seeing the games played argument for the forwards we've drafted but it isn't a great metric because you have to consider what these guys have done in all those games and the answer is not a whole lot

For Tracey, this is kinda the last year i'll have any hope for him and while Perreault is a year younger this past season was very concerning. hopefully McIlvane can work some of his magic with those two.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

there seems to have been a few drafts in a row that were pretty poor(2015,2016, 2017) and have kinda contributed to just how awful we’ve been the last 3-4 seasons.

I’m hoping it was an anomaly and the ship has now been righted

2016-18, we weren't drafting on balance. We drafted only two defensemen in three drafts: 2016, rd 3 Mahura and 2018 rd 7 Drew. Drew converted to a forward. Mahura was part of a Florida team that went to the SCF. We drafted more goalies than defensemen (OEE, Dostal, and Durny) in that 3-year draft period.

Note, Anaheim did not have a first round pick in 2017 draft. That would have been the 29th pick overall.

2015 looked promising. Late first round pick Larsson was a defensemen. The second round pick Nattinen had a great D+1 when he came over from Europe to NA (juniors), 71 pts in 52 games. Mentally, something happened to him in his D+2 season as he was traded to a new junior team, 38 pts in 51 games. IIRC, they had him switch from center to wing. Then you had Terry in the fifth round. We got a top line, all star winger. How is that draft awful? Most team pool rankings are heavily skewed when they land a top-3 pick.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Madden is good for defense but garbage at the rest…. Was never a trust in madden guy but when he picks a dman I’m on board

Madden's great at defense and goalie. Never used a first round pick on a goalie (Andersson rd 3, Gibson rd 2, and Dostal rd 3.) He's good at top-10 forward picks as he's hit on Zegras (2019) and McTavish (2021), but Ritchie (2014) played like a late, first round pick. We just added Carlsson (2023) to the forward group. If Carlsson pans out, then that's like 75% success rate.

 

[ScarTroy]

Madden's great at defense and goalie. Never used a first round pick on a goalie (Andersson rd 3, Gibson rd 2, and Dostal rd 3.) He's good at top-10 forward picks as he's hit on Zegras (2019) and McTavish (2021), but Ritchie (2014) played like a late, first round pick. We just added Carlsson (2023) to the forward group. If Carlsson pans out, then that's like 75% success rate.

And Ritchie was consensus BPA on every board I remember seeing. It’s not like Madden reached, this was a pick no one should blame him for making. Ritchie had the potential to be a Lucic type.

 

[Sean Garrity]

I think people should look at other teams' drafting before being overcritical about Madden. He's one of the most respected amateur scouts in the game.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

I think people overestimate the odds of a draftee making (and sticking in) the NHL.

Odds of a Draftee Playing >99 games:
1st Round: 74%
2nd Round: 34%
3rd Round: 27%
4th Round: 22%

It's not so much that Madden & Co. are bad at drafting forwards, I think they're just really good at drafting defensemen and that affects our perspective.