2023-24 Roster Thread #9: Spring time is upon us

[BiggE]

It also needs to be pointed out (again!) that there are outcomes besides "Buffalo" and "Montreal" and "Vancouver" and "Philadelphia" when it comes to rebuilding.

Note that a few years ago, Colorado and Edmonton would have been on that list too. They aren't now. It's almost like there is a way upward, even if you're badly managed and can't fully capitalize on it.

At the rate we’re going, Pittsburgh will bottom out, hit the lottery in 2027 and win a Cup in 2030 while we spend 2021-2030 either missing the playoffs or getting bounced in round one.

But yeah, culture, history and f***ing culture

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

It also needs to be pointed out (again!) that there are outcomes besides "Buffalo" and "Montreal" and "Vancouver" and "Philadelphia" when it comes to rebuilding.

Note that a few years ago, Colorado and Edmonton would have been on that list too. They aren't now. It's almost like there is a way upward, even if you're badly managed and can't fully capitalize on it.

I remember laughing to myself about what a mess the Rags would be for years to come after Hank retired. Similarly Jersey around the same time. Oops. I guess maybe you don't have to "suck for a decade." Meanwhile what have the Flyers done in the last decade or more?

As for the rest, I might be one of the more optimistic fans here, but I am still extremely skeptical about this team's future. I know one thing for sure, though. If I am .5% more hopeful now than I was during the Chuck years, it has absolutely nothing to do with Val f***ing Camillo, marketing, and history. The f*** cares?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

At the rate we’re going, Pittsburgh will bottom out, hit the lottery in 2027 and win a Cup in 2030 while we spend 2021-2030 either missing the playoffs or getting bounced in round one.

But yeah, culture, history and f***ing culture

correct... we have 5 decades of that very thing happening.

so its pretty easy to see it continuing

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Guys come on - we're not even in the off-season yet!

 

[TheKingPin]

I do not hate Snider. I hate Clarke because he is the root of all rot in this team.

I do not like Camillo "erasing" tradition. I do like that she doesn't sully and ruin it by hiding behind it like the fat slobs have for a decade. Those traditions and histories are better off for it. It's better for them to stand on their own instead of being caught up in what's happening right now.

She did not lose that fan support. The average fan likely has no clue who she is/was. The team lost support because they were excruciating to watch. That's kinda the whole point of sports, you know? Not all this very extracurricular stuff. Incidentally, this year is the first year in ages where the team has actually been watchable. That's why you see interest returning; interest you didn't see last year with the same people in charge. Everything revolves around the actual games. Those are the meat. Everything else is a vegetable; shitty, ruinous for your health, worth ignoring.

Clarke is the main reason this team has no direction. He’s always in the background so you have move on top of move with no connection. Just random.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Clarke is the main reason this team has no direction. He’s always in the background so you have move on top of move with no connection. Just random.

no move can be greater then Clarkes history... that is the direction this Org always takes

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I do not hate Snider. I hate Clarke because he is the root of all rot in this team.

I do not like Camillo "erasing" tradition. I do like that she doesn't sully and ruin it by hiding behind it like the fat slobs have for a decade. Those traditions and histories are better off for it. It's better for them to stand on their own instead of being caught up in what's happening right now.

She did not lose that fan support. The average fan likely has no clue who she is/was. The team lost support because they were excruciating to watch. That's kinda the whole point of sports, you know? Not all this very extracurricular stuff. Incidentally, this year is the first year in ages where the team has actually been watchable. That's why you see interest returning; interest you didn't see last year with the same people in charge. Everything revolves around the actual games. Those are the meat. Everything else is a vegetable; shitty, ruinous for your health, worth ignoring.

If you don’t think Camillo deserves responsibility for turning off fans, & if you don’t think fan engagement got immediately better in one year under Hilfetty & Jones, then you are ignoring reality.

 

[dragonoffrost]

If you don’t think Camillo deserves responsibility for turning off fans, & if you don’t think fan engagement got immediately better in one year under Hilfetty & Jones, then you are ignoring reality.

Here's the thing we do put some blame on her. It's just not to the level you want it because that means the slop we have seen on this ice for decades needs to be addressed.

Season	Lg	Team	GP	W	L	T	OL	PTS	PTS%	SRS	SOS	Finish	Playoffs	Coaches	Division	Conference
2023-24	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	81	38	32		11	87	.537	-0.28	0.03	6th of 8		J. Tortorella (38-32-11)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2022-23	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	31	38		13	75	.457	-0.62	0.05	7th of 8		J. Tortorella (31-38-13)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2021-22	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	25	46		11	61	.372	-1.00	0.06	8th of 8		A. Vigneault (8-10-4), M. Yeo (17-36-7)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2020-21	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	56	25	23		8	58	.518	-0.59	0.08	6th of 8		A. Vigneault (25-23-8)	East
2019-20	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	69	41	21		7	89	.645	0.52	0.00	2nd of 8	Lost NHL Second Round	A. Vigneault (41-21-7)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2018-19	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	37	37		8	82	.500	-0.42	0.03	6th of 8		D. Hakstol (12-15-4), S. Gordon (25-22-4)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2017-18	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	42	26		14	98	.598	0.07	-0.03	3rd of 8	Lost NHL First Round	D. Hakstol (42-26-14)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2016-17	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	39	33		10	88	.537	-0.17	0.04	6th of 8		D. Hakstol (39-33-10)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2015-16	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	41	27		14	96	.585	-0.03	0.02	5th of 8	Lost NHL First Round	D. Hakstol (41-27-14)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2014-15	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	33	31		18	84	.512	-0.23	0.00	6th of 8		C. Berube (33-31-18)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2013-14	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	42	30		10	94	.573	-0.01	-0.02	3rd of 8	Lost NHL First Round	C. Berube (42-27-10), P. Laviolette (0-3-0)	Metropolitan	Eastern
2012-13	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	48	23	22		3	49	.510	-0.14	0.03	4th of 5		P. Laviolette (23-22-3)	Atlantic	Eastern
2011-12	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	47	26		9	103	.628	0.39	0.00	3rd of 5	Lost NHL Conference Semi-Finals	P. Laviolette (47-26-9)	Atlantic	Eastern
2010-11	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	47	23		12	106	.646	0.40	-0.04	1st of 5	Lost NHL Conference Semi-Finals	P. Laviolette (47-23-12)	Atlantic	Eastern
2009-10	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	41	35		6	88	.537	0.08	-0.06	3rd of 5	Lost Stanley Cup Final	J. Stevens (13-11-1), P. Laviolette (28-24-5)	Atlantic	Eastern
2008-09	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	44	27		11	99	.604	0.28	-0.04	3rd of 5	Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals	J. Stevens (44-27-11)	Atlantic	Eastern
2007-08	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	42	29		11	95	.579	0.06	-0.12	4th of 5	Lost NHL Conference Finals	J. Stevens (42-29-11)	Atlantic	Eastern
2006-07	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers	82	22	48		12	56	.341	-1.12	-0.04	5th of 5		K. Hitchcock (1-6-1), J. Stevens (21-42-11)	Atlantic	Eastern
2005-06	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	45	26		11	101	.616	0.00	-0.10	2nd of 5	Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals	K. Hitchcock (45-26-11)	Atlantic	Eastern
2003-04	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	40	21	15	6	101	.616	0.47	-0.05	1st of 5	Lost NHL Conference Finals	K. Hitchcock (40-21-15-6)	Atlantic	Eastern
2002-03	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	45	20	13	4	107	.652	0.43	-0.12	2nd of 5	Lost NHL Conference Semi-Finals	K. Hitchcock (45-20-13-4)	Atlantic	Eastern
2001-02	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	42	27	10	3	97	.591	0.41	-0.11	1st of 5	Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals	B. Barber (42-27-10-3)	Atlantic	Eastern
2000-01	NHL	Philadelphia Flyers*	82	43	25	11	3	100	.610	0.33	-0.07	2nd of 5	Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals	C. Ramsay (12-12-4-0), B. Barber (31-13-7-3)	Atlantic	Eastern

Most of us don't see that chart as a good thing. How many playoff misses and first round exits? It points to irrelevance. Most of the people who are buying into the smoke and mirrors happening this year are the ones who have to use things like Crapitals and Shittsburgh to refer to teams that have done much better over the period shown in that chart. And no it's not just because of Ovi and Sid that those teams were better.

 

[ybnvs]

The average fan likely has no clue who she is/was.

/thread

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you don’t think Camillo deserves responsibility for turning off fans, & if you don’t think fan engagement got immediately better in one year under Hilfetty & Jones, then you are ignoring reality.

Things didn't get immediately better. They were the same. Almost nobody actually gives a shit about the marketing. They care about the team being watchable. That is what makes or breaks all sports advertising.

This is the most ridiculous scapegoating you've tried yet.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm just waiting for someone to tell me that the "new" regime was behind the switch to the old burnt orange.

 

[ybnvs]

If you don’t think Camillo deserves responsibility for turning off fans, & if you don’t think fan engagement got immediately better in one year under Hilfetty & Jones, then you are ignoring reality.

Wrong. The on-ice product is the main component which drives the market and spurs fan engagement and interest. Everyone and their dog knows this. Every sport is like this.

As previously said by others, you're only seeing more engagement this year because the Flyers have improved and won a couple more games, especially early on. Interestingly enough, what has also played a major factor in clouding your reality (and many others) is how many other teams collectively shit the bed to keep the Flyers suspended in a psuedo playoff position. Jones and Hilferty were then successfully (only to the ridiculous Authentics) able to manipulate their fan market and push their lying narrative to the masses. It's nauseating if you see through their bullshit, but you have your blinders on, so you're pumped! An 89 point playoff team (if the circumstances align)...

You're the one choosing to ignore reality when you readily dismiss how terrible things were on the ice under Fletcher. The egg is all over your face, not ours.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Did the marketing make money? If yes, then it was good. If no, then not. That's the job.

Did the marketing work on you or me personally? It definitely didn't work on me, but no one cares. Get over yourself.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wrong. The on-ice product is the main component which drives the market and spurs fan engagement and interest. Everyone and their dog knows this. Every sport is like this.

As previously said by others, you're only seeing more engagement this year because the Flyers have improved and won a couple more games, especially early on. Interestingly enough, what has also played a major factor in clouding your reality (and many others) is how many other teams collectively shit the bed to keep the Flyers suspended in a psuedo playoff position. Jones and Hilferty were then successfully (only to the ridiculous Authentics) able to manipulate their fan market and push their lying narrative to the masses. It's nauseating if you see through their bullshit, but you have your blinders on, so you're pumped! An 89 point playoff team (if the circumstances align)...

You're the one choosing to ignore reality when you readily dismiss how terrible things were on the ice under Fletcher. The egg is all over your face, not ours.

Sure. Camillo deserves no responsibility and the new leadership hasn't done a better job with fan engagement. Whatever you say.

Hilferty and Jones have been great with fan engagement since day one. Constantly talking to the media, talking to fans, walking through the Skate Zone. Hilferty went through during camp and was shaking fans' hands and telling them, "Be patient, we're going to get it back on track." They listened to fan complaints and made changes to bring back traditions they liked. The fans were reinvigorated before the season even started, as shown by training camp turnout.

 

[ybnvs]

Sure. Camillo deserves no responsibility and the new leadership hasn't done a better job with fan engagement. Whatever you say.

Hilferty and Jones have been great with fan engagement since day one. Constantly talking to the media, talking to fans, walking through the Skate Zone. Hilferty went through during camp and was shaking fans' hands and telling them, "Be patient, we're going to get it back on track." They listened to fan complaints and made changes to bring back traditions they liked. The fans were reinvigorated before the season even started, as shown by training camp turnout.

Way to be 100% disengeous.

I'm one and done with you anymore.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Sure. Camillo deserves no responsibility and the new leadership hasn't done a better job with fan engagement. Whatever you say.

Hilferty and Jones have been great with fan engagement since day one. Constantly talking to the media, talking to fans, walking through the Skate Zone. Hilferty went through during camp and was shaking fans' hands and telling them, "Be patient, we're going to get it back on track." They listened to fan complaints and made changes to bring back traditions they liked. The fans were reinvigorated before the season even started, as shown by training camp turnout.

I’ll make a comparison here bc it’s somewhat… relevant let’s say.

We both share political views imo. The Flyer family aren’t the Tucker Carlson/Trump of the NHL. They are very much Mitch McConnell, and while they have some followers. It’s that Flyer family, and their unwavering philosophies that hamper their efforts toward success.

 

[snoop88]

Looking at spotrac at the flyers contracts year by year and good god do we have a ton of terrible contracts on the books.

What a terribly managed roster. Risto, Coots, Sanheim, Atkinson, Ellis, Johansson, the list goes on.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Happens when you never sell high on anyone, bridge the wrong guys, and hand out 8 year terms like candy.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Looking at spotrac at the flyers contracts year by year and good god do we have a ton of terrible contracts on the books.

What a terribly managed roster. Risto, Coots, Sanheim, Atkinson, Ellis, Johansson, the list goes on.

Can add Hayes, and MacDonald to that list.

Their pro scouting/decision making at the NHL level has been concerning for a long time. Ironic for a team dead set on finding their upper end talent through FA, and trades.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Happens when you never sell high on anyone, bridge the wrong guys, and hand out 8 year terms like candy.

cant put a price on #culture..

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sure. Camillo deserves no responsibility and the new leadership hasn't done a better job with fan engagement. Whatever you say.

Hilferty and Jones have been great with fan engagement since day one. Constantly talking to the media, talking to fans, walking through the Skate Zone. Hilferty went through during camp and was shaking fans' hands and telling them, "Be patient, we're going to get it back on track." They listened to fan complaints and made changes to bring back traditions they liked. The fans were reinvigorated before the season even started, as shown by training camp turnout.

Correct. Camillo deserves no responsibility. The team on the ice is the only thing that actually matters and everything else is fluffy decoration that doesn't matter.

Lying to the fans isn't better engagement. Of course, that doesn't matter either. None of it does.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Correct. Camillo deserves no responsibility. The team on the ice is the only thing that actually matters and everything else is fluffy decoration that doesn't matter.

Lying to the fans isn't better engagement. Of course, that doesn't matter either. None of it does.

Hard to blame Camillo, but absolve men like Hanrahan, or a meddler like Clarke who has been around forever.

On the topic of pro scouting, it's an easy example to make of the rot that runs through that Flyer family. Mike Eastwood promoted to head pro scout this season.

A deadline move for Erik Johnson. Don't lie to me that things are somehow different, when it's clear the same philosophies continue to infect the franchise.

 

[VladDrag]

Looking at spotrac at the flyers contracts year by year and good god do we have a ton of terrible contracts on the books.

What a terribly managed roster. Risto, Coots, Sanheim, Atkinson, Ellis, Johansson, the list goes on.

As of now, according to Dom L, here are the salary vs market value of all players..Ellis isn't listed.

The numbers are listed in millions, and the list is sorted by market value...

Player	Salary	Market Value	Surplus
Konecny	5.5​	8.4​	2.9​
Tippett	1.5​	6.6​	5.1​
Seeler	0.8​	6.3​	5.5​
Frost	2.1​	6.1​	4​
Foerster	0.9​	5.8​	4.9​
Couts	7.8​	5.4​	-2.4​
Sanheim	6.3​	4.7​	-1.6​
Farabee	5​	4.6​	-0.4​
Cates	2.6​	4.1​	1.5​
York	1.6​	3.6​	2​
Poehling	1.4​	3.5​	2.1​
Hathaway	2.4​	3.2​	0.8​
Risto	5​	3​	-2​
Zamula	0.8​	2.3​	1.5​
Atkinson	5.9​	1.8​	-4.1​
Staal	1.1​	1.7​	0.6​
Brink	2.6​	0.9​	-1.7​
Deslauriers	1.8​	0.8​	-1​
Drysdale	2.3​	0.8​	-1.5​
Laughton	3​	0.8​	-2.2​
Johnson	3.3​	0.8​	-2.5​

 

[Flyerfan4life]

As of now, according to Dom L, here are the salary vs market value of all players..Ellis isn't listed.

The numbers are listed in millions, and the list is sorted by market value...

Player	Salary	Market Value	Surplus
Konecny	5.5​	8.4​	2.9​
Tippett	1.5​	6.6​	5.1​
Seeler	0.8​	6.3​	5.5​
Frost	2.1​	6.1​	4​
Foerster	0.9​	5.8​	4.9​
Couts	7.8​	5.4​	-2.4​
Sanheim	6.3​	4.7​	-1.6​
Farabee	5​	4.6​	-0.4​
Cates	2.6​	4.1​	1.5​
York	1.6​	3.6​	2​
Poehling	1.4​	3.5​	2.1​
Hathaway	2.4​	3.2​	0.8​
Risto	5​	3​	-2​
Zamula	0.8​	2.3​	1.5​
Atkinson	5.9​	1.8​	-4.1​
Staal	1.1​	1.7​	0.6​
Brink	2.6​	0.9​	-1.7​
Deslauriers	1.8​	0.8​	-1​
Drysdale	2.3​	0.8​	-1.5​
Laughton	3​	0.8​	-2.2​
Johnson	3.3​	0.8​	-2.5​

LOL@ laughtons value...

#Zing...

beaf***ingFlyer babeee

 

[JojoTheWhale]

These are the discussions that drive me nuts. Dan Hilferty doesn't give a single shit about you or me. Not one. Neither does Keith Jones or Bob Clarke or Ron Hextall or Dave Hakstol or Val Camillo or the guy I can't be bothered to Google who retired who loved Bill Barber. They're all the same. It's time for people to grow up and stop being fans. We're back to that being a negative thing.