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2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

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How many total points will the 2023-24 Flyers compile at the end of the season?

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deadhead said:
Do you think a letter would give Couts any more gravitas in the Clubhouse?
The letter I think merely lets a player intervene with the refs.
I think Torts would rather have the refs pissed off at him than at his players.
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The players who normally select those who wear letters can normally chose who won't get a ref pissed off at them. Again it's a flaw in Torts coaching style that he has to control the captains of the team.

Marchand is probably an exception to this rule by the way but he seems to be ok with the refs until he pulls the antics.
 
deadhead said:
I don't think Torts has said that at all, in fact he's praised Frost for his improvement on defense.

Torts problem with Frost has been consistency (the toilet seat analogy), Frost tends to play a passive game, similar to G in that G was always patient with the puck, but Frost doesn't have G's IQ and vision, so when he's passive, he's usually MIA (play dies on his stick).

When Frost uses his legs and drives play, he's a better player, which is why he's best with wings like Tippett and TK, who use their speed to drive play.

Frost is playing faster, early in the season his Edge stats were those of a player with below average speed (i.e. he was rarely using his speed), now he's in the 71st percentile of bursts over 20 MPH.
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Torts Logic: “I can’t stand this Morgan Frost guy with the play “always dying on his stick” in the opponents end of the ice. I’m gonna sit him for Nic Deslauriers, so the play can never get started in the first place and the other 4 guys I put on the ice can learn what it means to defend for 2 minutes straight.”
 
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This might be a bad analogy but…

Frost reminds me a lot of a #10 player in soccer. Can score, make the final pass, make the pass before the pass, and has the best hands/stick on the team.

When we are controlling the puck, or when the game is even - very few Flyers you would want on the ice before him. He can change the game in an instant with one single flash of brilliance.

That being said - when you need to squeak out a win, and need a guy to be flawless in his own end, and maybe find 50-50 pucks, win a puck off a bigger players stick in the D zone… is Morgan Frost that dude? No, he’s not. When we’re pinned in our zone and surviving, he’s probably the 4th center I want out there.

But that is ok. I’ll live with those small moments of struggle with Frost in order to get the good with the bad.

Unfortunately right or wrong, Torts thinks his game can go to another level, and I actually agree with him - but to scratch him only to need him on PP1 the next night is just BS for the player. If he gets a coach who believes in him and linemates that might finish more than they are expected - no reason he can’t be a 25g 40a guy.
 
usahockey22flyers said:
This might be a bad analogy but…

Frost reminds me a lot of a #10 player in soccer. Can score, make the final pass, make the pass before the pass, and has the best hands/stick on the team.

When we are controlling the puck, or when the game is even - very few Flyers you would want on the ice before him. He can change the game in an instant with one single flash of brilliance.

That being said - when you need to squeak out a win, and need a guy to be flawless in his own end, and maybe find 50-50 pucks, win a puck off a bigger players stick in the D zone… is Morgan Frost that dude? No, he’s not. When we’re pinned in our zone and surviving, he’s probably the 4th center I want out there.

But that is ok. I’ll live with those small moments of struggle with Frost in order to get the good with the bad.

Unfortunately right or wrong, Torts thinks his game can go to another level, and I actually agree with him - but to scratch him only to need him on PP1 the next night is just BS for the player. If he gets a coach who believes in him and linemates that might finish more than they are expected - no reason he can’t be a 25g 40a guy.
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He's better defensively than most of our forwards.
 
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“Hanging on” reminds me of the days of watching VDV and PEB out for every empty net to grind the clock down for 1.5 minutes against an onslaught…..instead of scoring.

Frost is a very savvy defensive player. It’s showing in the metrics this season. This team just has incredibly oversimplified views on defense. And refuses to look past stereotypes.
 
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Magua said:
“Hanging on” reminds me of the days of watching VDV and PEB out for every empty net to grind the clock down for 1.5 minutes against an onslaught…..instead of scoring.

Frost is a very savvy defensive player. It’s showing in the metrics this season. This team just has incredibly oversimplified views on defense. And refuses to look past stereotypes.
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Sometimes you just have to get the blue line and chip. No matter how good you were for the other 58 min of the game. Every coach knows this

Beef Invictus said:
Why? Frost is better at getting the puck and ending the threat than Poehling and Laughton. And Cates hasn't been great either.
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Na honestly i’ll take both of them and Cates over him up 1 with 2 min left
 
Magua said:
And one of the best transition players on the team can’t do that because……?
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He’s not physical enough and I don’t love him in front of his own net.

Frost is probably my favorite player on the team, he just isn’t who I would send out if I need a D zone clear and/or exit late
 
Barring Couturier being one of the best 2 way centers in the league (career), Frost is definitely in contention for best defensive forward on the team. Not to be a prick, but if you think Frost is a bad player, you probably aren't a very critical thinker. I have yet to see a criticism that doesn't echo the coach's biases. "Weak on the puck, plays small" are bullshit. Is he unskilled? No. We saw tonight that maybe he was being held back from playing his game. Every metric possible, and even my own eye test have him comfortably as a 2nd Line Center in the NHL.

Does he maybe have another level to reach? Absolutely. But he provides value on the ice almost every time hes there.
 
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scumpup said:
Barring Couturier being one of the best 2 way centers in the league (career), Frost is definitely in contention for best defensive forward on the team. Not to be a prick, but if you think Frost is a bad player, you probably aren't a very critical thinker. I have yet to see a criticism that doesn't echo the coach's biases. "Weak on the puck, plays small" are bullshit. Is he unskilled? No. We saw tonight that maybe he was being held back from playing his game. Every metric possible, and even my own eye test have him comfortably as a 2nd Line Center in the NHL.

Does he maybe have another level to reach? Absolutely. But he provides value on the ice almost every time hes there.
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Frost isn't as good as Cates on defense. Not even close.
Cates has the best hands in a crowd on the team, along with Couts.

Poehling is a different matter, he can probably beat Frost in a race, but his hands are uh, inconsistent. Laughton is just not a good defensive center, better on the PK, but best as a LW 5x5.

Frost has become more responsible defensively, but in this system the center is like a 3rd D-man, and in that role he can be limited because of lack of size and strength. When the game is back and forth, he can use his speed and stick to break up plays on defense - when you have a lead and the other team is pressing and taking chances, he's more vulnerable.

Which is not a knock, that's not his role. He's best driving play with his speed and skill.
 
So when it comes to Frost, there is a difference between defensive skills, and defensive impact. And they do not equal each other. You can have good defensive skills, and still have horrible defensive impact numbers (Risto in Buff or Hagg for example). Board pins, stick tie ups, body checks, etc. that stuff doesn’t really effect defensive impact numbers. What does is having an ability to snuff plays out before they get too dangerous, something frost does as well s anyone on the team.
 
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bennysflyers16 said:
TK Frost Tippy needs to be a full time thing.
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TK is pretty good paired with Couts.
And Foerster is a good fit with Frost and Tippett b/c of his high IQ and willingness to do the dirty work.

Either way, they now have two legitimate lines if they keep it up, third line should be Laughton/Cates - Cates/Poehling - Atkinson/Brink, whatever seems to work.
 
deadhead said:
TK is pretty good paired with Couts.
And Foerster is a good fit with Frost and Tippett b/c of his high IQ and willingness to do the dirty work.

Either way, they now have two legitimate lines if they keep it up, third line should be Laughton/Cates - Cates/Poehling - Atkinson/Brink, whatever seems to work.
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Couts is breaking down already, they need to limit his TOI.
 
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bennysflyers16 said:
TK Frost Tippy needs to be a full time thing.
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Literally been calling for this since day 1. Frost and Tippet have obvious chemistry on the ice. Konecny was butchering chances left right and centre at the start of the year with Frost, which tanked his Torts value.

It was only a matter of time before they really tear it up.
 
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Risto's results this season are medium at best. He's been used as a 3rd pairing guy and still struggles to break even. I can't imagine anyone trading for him even with full 50% retention.
 
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Curufinwe said:
Risto's results this season are medium at best. He's been used as a 3rd pairing guy and still struggles to break even. I can't imagine anyone trading for him even with full 50% retention.
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The wins curu, the wins!

But yea risto at 2.5M is still garbo
 
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