2023-24 Roster Thread 2: The Days Get Longer Edition

[Flyerfan4life]

You should reply to him on twitter. At least make him aware of some of the biases he's carrying around.

inB4 #blocked..

charlie isnt interested in anything except a pro-Flyers echo chamber

 

[VladDrag]

You should reply to him on twitter. At least make him aware of some of the biases he's carrying around.

I am 99% sure he reads the boards here.

I'm also not interested in talking with him. He's turned into a smug a-hole.

 

[Audible Velvet]

I've been triggered...Charlie has a column out about Frost. Some tidbits I particularly liked

"It’s a bit reductive to attribute it entirely to improved quality of linemates and more favorable usage — but only a bit. His partnership with Tippett in particular benefited both players, but especially Frost, given that he’s simply not as dynamic as Tippett and therefore finds it more difficult to create his own shots and chances."

Nope.

"Frost may not have been helped by his usage. But a scorer shouldn’t be going 17 games without a goal and 11 games without a point — especially considering that Frost was still getting regular PP time in October and November, which wasn’t impacted by usage."

The powerplay was ranked 31st or 32nd this year. IT was a shit show the entire year. They used him in the bumper spot and net front for christ sakes. How is he supposed to be a benefit. It's like they didn't even understand the player they had in front of them.

"...but it’s certainly not great. Neither is his 45.8 percent faceoff percentage, which isn’t going to endear a young center to any head coach..."

Centers who have a lower faceoff % include: Nate MacKinnon, Jack Eichel, Elias Petterson, Tage Thompson, and even Noah Cates.

"Frost almost certainly isn’t going to be a regular penalty killer at the NHL level, and his skill and creativity make him well-suited in theory to being a power play threat, allowing him to provide value beyond even strength."

I wonder if charlie knows he was a top PKer in juniors and the Flyers have elected him to not PK. Also, Hockeyviz has his impact as a PKer as -18% in xGA, where without frost the rest of the team is a +14% in xGA. For those that don't know, this is how the team plays relative to the rest of the league when that player is either on or off the ice.

There is a lot more but whatever.

Thank you. Also, it’s a good time to bring out my little saying. Know-it-alls never do.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

What a spineless, yellow belly piece of shit.

“Hey Charlie.”

 

[deadhead]

The Frost lickers are out in force, I see.
Frost is not a young Giroux. He's never going to be an elite offensive talent.
The reason Torts is skeptical of Frost is he lacks the dynamic attack of Tippett, the vision of G, the defense of Cates, etc.
But his biggest problem is going MIA for long stretches - he's improved, but he still disappears too often.

Now does he have the potential to be a solid 2C? Sure. IF he plays more consistently with a higher motor, improves his FOs, becomes a capable PP contributor, is more reliable on defense, but most importantly is less passive on offense and drives play on a regular basis. The potential is there, his last 56 games were 2C quality, but he's also 24, how much upside is left?

The funny thing is all the advanced metrics proponents ignore that Frost grades out worse than Cates and Tippett.

I would give him a 2 year bridge, see how he develops (or not) then decide whether he's a key player going forward and extend him or trade him.

 

[Curufinwe]

I am 99% sure he reads the boards here.

I'm also not interested in talking with him. He's turned into a smug a-hole.

Billy Meltz has got you covered.

The Frost lickers are out in force, I see.

Funny coming from the guy whose dream is to attend a Lemon Party with Torts.

 

[VladDrag]

The Frost lickers are out in force, I see.
Frost is not a young Giroux. He's never going to be an elite offensive talent.
The reason Torts is skeptical of Frost is he lacks the dynamic attack of Tippett, the vision of G, the defense of Cates, etc.
But his biggest problem is going MIA for long stretches - he's improved, but he still disappears too often.

Now does he have the potential to be a solid 2C? Sure. IF he plays more consistently with a higher motor, improves his FOs, becomes a capable PP contributor, is more reliable on defense, but most importantly is less passive on offense and drives play on a regular basis. The potential is there, his last 56 games were 2C quality, but he's also 24, how much upside is left?

The funny thing is all the advanced metrics proponents ignore that Frost grades out worse than Cates and Tippett.

I would give him a 2 year bridge, see how he develops (or not) then decide whether he's a key player going forward and extend him or trade him.

I'm not going to get into most of this post with you, except this part. As someone who loves data and subs to multiple hockey data sites, no, not all of the advanced metrics grade out worse than Cates or Tippett. Some do, some don't.

 

[Curufinwe]

I can't imagine Tippett's defense grades out as anything but poor.

 

[tnfrs]

I can't imagine Tippett's defense grades out as anything but poor.

Im not saying he's Mark Stone but his takeaway/giveaway ratio is pretty good. I think Frost and Tippett can be an effective 2nd line but I would like to see Cates on the left side with them and maybe they can start taking more risks offensively if the line is a bit more stable defensively. i know our center depth sucks and Torts wants him playing center but it might be worth looking at

 

[Curufinwe]

I would like to see Cates on the left side

I too, would like for Torts to be removed as head coach so that could happen

 

[Rebels57]

Im not saying he's Mark Stone but his takeaway/giveaway ratio is pretty good. I think Frost and Tippett can be an effective 2nd line but I would like to see Cates on the left side with them and maybe they can start taking more risks offensively if the line is a bit more stable defensively. i know our center depth sucks and Torts wants him playing center but it might be worth looking at

They could easily go with Coots, Frost, Laughton, Poehling down the middle so Cates can move over to LW. Doubt it though. Torts thinks Cates is the 2nd coming of Guy Carbonneau.

 

[Striiker]

I've been triggered...Charlie has a column out about Frost. Some tidbits I particularly liked

"It’s a bit reductive to attribute it entirely to improved quality of linemates and more favorable usage — but only a bit. His partnership with Tippett in particular benefited both players, but especially Frost, given that he’s simply not as dynamic as Tippett and therefore finds it more difficult to create his own shots and chances."

Nope.

"Frost may not have been helped by his usage. But a scorer shouldn’t be going 17 games without a goal and 11 games without a point — especially considering that Frost was still getting regular PP time in October and November, which wasn’t impacted by usage."

The powerplay was ranked 31st or 32nd this year. IT was a shit show the entire year. They used him in the bumper spot and net front for christ sakes. How is he supposed to be a benefit. It's like they didn't even understand the player they had in front of them.

"...but it’s certainly not great. Neither is his 45.8 percent faceoff percentage, which isn’t going to endear a young center to any head coach..."

Centers who have a lower faceoff % include: Nate MacKinnon, Jack Eichel, Elias Petterson, Tage Thompson, and even Noah Cates.

"Frost almost certainly isn’t going to be a regular penalty killer at the NHL level, and his skill and creativity make him well-suited in theory to being a power play threat, allowing him to provide value beyond even strength."

I wonder if charlie knows he was a top PKer in juniors and the Flyers have elected him to not PK. Also, Hockeyviz has his impact as a PKer as -18% in xGA, where without frost the rest of the team is a +14% in xGA. For those that don't know, this is how the team plays relative to the rest of the league when that player is either on or off the ice.

There is a lot more but whatever.

No brain in this head

 

[VladDrag]

No brain in this head

Saw that.

Frost scored 4 points in an individual game twice. How is this not taking a game over? How many other forwards had multiple two point games (great point from @FLYguy3911). Every team gets to play Arizona twice, and not everyone scored 4 points against them. So I don't understand why that is being brushed over as if it's a common occurrence.

There are hand/eye skills that Frost has shown that no one other than TK has come close to even making.

Edit - I wanted to add this goal (first goal on the replay) . This is one of the most skilled goals I saw last year. No one else on this team can do this, I don't even think TK can make this play. He still might get a quality shot, but not the same way. So surgical and precise.

 

[tnfrs]

They could easily go with Coots, Frost, Laughton, Poehling down the middle so Cates can move over to LW. Doubt it though. Torts thinks Cates is the 2nd coming of Guy Carbonneau.

I agree absolutely, and if Coots is back theres no reason to roll Cates at center unless he pulls away from Frost on faceoff numbers and even then he can just take faceoffs when the matchup is right. but thats kinda like frost's mom cutting his food up for him

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I too, would like for Torts to be removed as head coach so that could happen

yah Cates is a centre now till Torts is removed from Org.

 

[Curufinwe]

Will Tony get a video tribute on October 30th? I got one here for the highlight reel.

 

[tnfrs]

Will Tony get a video tribute on October 30th? I got one here for the highlight reel.

Hes strong on his missed checks

 

[Striiker]

Saw that.

Frost scored 4 points in an individual game twice. How is this not taking a game over? How many other forwards had multiple two point games (great point from @FLYguy3911). Every team gets to play Arizona twice, and not everyone scored 4 points against them. So I don't understand why that is being brushed over as if it's a common occurrence.

There are hand/eye skills that Frost has shown that no one other than TK has come close to even making.

Edit - I wanted to add this goal (first goal on the replay) . This is one of the most skilled goals I saw last year. No one else on this team can do this, I don't even think TK can make this play. He still might get a quality shot, but not the same way. So surgical and precise.

Meanwhile O'Connor has now said some form of "Tippett is dynamic/dominant and Frost isn't" at least 3 different times today.

Hard to tell if he's just stupid or if contract talks are going poorly for the team so they ordered him to attack Frost like this.

 

[Striiker]

And then he's going on about this shit too today.

Caveman Mode: ENGAGED

"Frost ackshually bad" and "culture is so super duper important"? Must be aiming for some kind of job within the team.

 

[Audible Velvet]

No brain in this head

Tippett dominant and potentially the guy to take over a game? Okay then.

Saw that.

Frost scored 4 points in an individual game twice. How is this not taking a game over? How many other forwards had multiple two point games (great point from @FLYguy3911). Every team gets to play Arizona twice, and not everyone scored 4 points against them. So I don't understand why that is being brushed over as if it's a common occurrence.

There are hand/eye skills that Frost has shown that no one other than TK has come close to even making.

Edit - I wanted to add this goal (first goal on the replay) . This is one of the most skilled goals I saw last year. No one else on this team can do this, I don't even think TK can make this play. He still might get a quality shot, but not the same way. So surgical and precise.

Seth Jones though.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Frost lickers are out in force, I see.
Frost is not a young Giroux. He's never going to be an elite offensive talent.
The reason Torts is skeptical of Frost is he lacks the dynamic attack of Tippett, the vision of G, the defense of Cates, etc.
But his biggest problem is going MIA for long stretches - he's improved, but he still disappears too often.

Now does he have the potential to be a solid 2C? Sure. IF he plays more consistently with a higher motor, improves his FOs, becomes a capable PP contributor, is more reliable on defense, but most importantly is less passive on offense and drives play on a regular basis. The potential is there, his last 56 games were 2C quality, but he's also 24, how much upside is left?

The funny thing is all the advanced metrics proponents ignore that Frost grades out worse than Cates and Tippett.

I would give him a 2 year bridge, see how he develops (or not) then decide whether he's a key player going forward and extend him or trade him.

What a pile of horseshit.

 

[tnfrs]

tippett's not a game breaker, hes basically Jeff Carter as a winger but presumably he hasnt railed Hartnell's wife yet so dont think Im comparing them here. Tippett can shoot, and looks like he found his range this year from further out, which isnt a terrible thing having a 30 goal potential winger who isnt a complete liability defensively but Tippett doesnt take over games. He did stand out for me this year, I like him

 

[freakydallas13]

Frost is not a young Giroux.

This strawman 2 sentences into the rant is where I stopped reading.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Imagine describing Tippett as "dominant"

 

[Curufinwe]

He's no Clive, that's for sure.