2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[BrindamoursNose]

You have questions about a Jack Adams finalist who took a 2nd year expansion team who wasn't expected to make the playoffs into a 2nd round lead against Dallas after knocking off the defending Cup champion Avalanche in round 1 after losing their 40-goal-scorer in game 3?

Bill Barber won a Jack Adams

Who even cares about that award.

 

[Rebels57]

Certain Mr. Vigneault won in 2006-07, was runner-up in 1999-00, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2019-20. No wonder the Flyers had so much success with that guy. Look at all the Adams nominations.



Edit - hell. The turrible 2022-23 (this season which aint over yet!) nomminee Gerrard Gallant has already been fired

Gallant was nominated for the 21-22 season, but still.

 

[kudymen]

Gallant was nominated for the 21-22 season, but still.

Ahh sorry. I thought nhl.com had this season up there already. Welp, me = blind. Change it to 21-22 nomminee, 15-16 runner-up and 17-18 winner Gallant has already been fired while all this success should have lead the NYR to promised land, hehe.

 

[deadhead]

The organizational philosophy and the man behind the bench won't let Bedard be Bedard though. They'll try to change him in ways that they absolutely shouldn't.

You're right. He'll ask Bedard to back check and ruin him, like he ruined St Louis, Panarin and Atkinson.
The way Makar's career has cratered by actually playing at both ends of the ice.

Torts philosophy has been to let offensive players free rein to create in the offensive zone as long as they're responsible defensively. He doesn't want a Bedard to dump and chase, b/c Bedard won't struggle with clean zone entries.

 

[Rebels57]

Ahh sorry. I thought nhl.com had this season up there already. Welp, me = blind. Change it to 21-22 nomminee, 15-16 runner-up and 17-18 winner Gallant has already been fired while all this success should have lead the NYR to promised land.

Gallant died for Drury's sins. He made them older and slower after they looked ready to take the next step forward.

 

[VladDrag]

Certain Mr. Vigneault won in 2006-07, was runner-up in 1999-00, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2019-20. No wonder the Flyers had so much success with that guy. Look at all the Adams nominations.



Edit - hell. The turrible 2022-23 (this season which aint over yet!) nomminee Gerrard Gallant has already been fired
Edit2 - wrong Gallant season lol. Still a finalist in 21-22, 15-16 and winner in 17-18, wheee

Every single finalist in 21-22 has been fired. Burnette was fired at the conclusion of the same season he was a finalist for.

It's a nothing award. All of the NHL awards are jokes.

 

[kudymen]

Every single finalist in 21-22 has been fired. Burnette was fired at the conclusion of the same season he was a finalist for.

It's a nothing award. All of the NHL awards are jokes.

Yeah but the 22-23 finalist gets good contrarian trolling points here so that explains the post from the previous page

 

[BernieParent]

It's also an ideal situation to do a rebuild right, and not declare "job finished" the moment they push for a playoff spot (something I'd worry about as a Senator's fan).

Thanks, dead. It is indeed. The Flyers org only has to identify superstar talents over the next several drafts at draft positions 7-16 and make shrewd player transactions at times that maximize their value and return high-level prospects and draft picks.

 

[Rebels57]

Every single finalist in 21-22 has been fired. Burnette was fired at the conclusion of the same season he was a finalist for.

It's a nothing award. All of the NHL awards are jokes.

To be fair to Brunette, he wasn't "fired" in the same way the others were. He was never named head coach. He was interim and Florida decided to go a different direction and go with Maurice. He's done a great job in NJ so far and will be a HC again soon, either in NJ or elsewhere.

 

[VladDrag]

To be fair to Brunette, he wasn't "fired" in the same way the others were. He was never named head coach. He was interim and Florida decided to go a different direction and go with Maurice. He's done a great job in NJ so far and will be a HC again soon, either in NJ or elsewhere.

Sure - and I know you're just adding on - but my point remains. Using a Jack Adams finalist as if it's an incredible accolade deserving of high praise is just dumb...And it's an appeal to authority.

 

[bobbythebrain]

The organizational philosophy and the man behind the bench won't let Bedard be Bedard though. They'll try to change him in ways that they absolutely shouldn't.

Yet TK, Frost and Tippet all took big steps forward.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You're right. He'll ask Bedard to back check and ruin him, like he ruined St Louis, Panarin and Atkinson.
The way Makar's career has cratered by actually playing at both ends of the ice.

Torts philosophy has been to let offensive players free rein to create in the offensive zone as long as they're responsible defensively. He doesn't want a Bedard to dump and chase, b/c Bedard won't struggle with clean zone entries.

That has not been his philosophy. In January when the team started scoring quite a lot he stood in front of the press, complained about it, vowed to put a stop to it...and did, immediately.

He doesn't want offensive players. He said he wants 10-12 goal PK specialists. That's your idea of someone looking to give free reign to offensive players? The guy bitched and whined about Frost all season and he did so because he's offensively creative.

 

[Rebels57]

Sure - and I know you're just adding on - but my point remains. Using a Jack Adams finalist as if it's an incredible accolade deserving of high praise is just dumb...And it's an appeal to authority.

Yep, your point remains. The Jack Adams means diddly dick.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, I have had questions about what specifically you so dearly love about what he's done with the team this year.

Ah, so you really want to take the stance that you cannot comment on a coach's performance unless you can intimately break down his tactics?

My guess is that would preclude you from opining on any coach.

I can say that Hakstol runs a 1-1-3, even though most probably think he runs a 1-2-2. He predominantly ran a 1-1-3 at North Dakota, and early with the Flyers, before he switched to a 1-2-2 because of the Flyers' lack of speed. And Seattle's neutral-zone play is swarming.

Aside from his actual systems, I love the fact that he's gotten a 2nd-year expansion team who no-one predicted would make the playoffs overachieving, playing hard every night, with a bunch of written-off players excelling, and beating the defending champs to proceed into the 2nd round.

Who wouldn't give the man props?

So, what's wrong with Toronto, and is Sheldon Keefe to blame?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yet TK, Frost and Tippet all took big steps forward.

Why do the Tortorella fans ever cite Frost? The only reason Frost got usage that allowed him to produce is because Tortorella was ordered to give him that usage. It was against his will. Why would anyone give him credit for that?

There's also the little fact that Tortorella proudly bragged about how he hates communicating with players these days, so he wouldn't bother. And we had players confirming he wasn't giving them any direct coaching. So how can he get credit when every indication is that these players had to figure it out themselves?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ah, so you really want to take the stance that you cannot comment on a coach's performance unless you can intimately break down his tactics?

My guess is that would preclude you from opining on any coach.

I can say that Hakstol runs a 1-1-3, even though most probably think he runs a 1-2-2. He predominantly ran a 1-1-3 at North Dakota, and early with the Flyers, before he switched to a 1-2-2 because of the Flyers' lack of speed. And Seattle's neutral-zone play is swarming.

Aside from his actual systems, I love the fact that he's gotten a 2nd-year expansion team who no-one predicted would make the playoffs overachieving, playing hard every night, with a bunch of written-off players excelling, and beating the defending champs to proceed into the 2nd round.

Who wouldn't give the man props?

So, what's wrong with Toronto, and is Sheldon Keefe to blame?

The playoffs are a lot easier when you face underperforming goalies.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gallant died for Drury's sins. He made them older and slower after they looked ready to take the next step forward.

It's weird because I was told making the high-talent Rangers more gritty would make them good.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Ah, so you really want to take the stance that you cannot comment on a coach's performance unless you can intimately break down his tactics?

My guess is that would preclude you from opining on any coach.

I can say that Hakstol runs a 1-1-3, even though most probably think he runs a 1-2-2. He predominantly ran a 1-1-3 at North Dakota, and early with the Flyers, before he switched to a 1-2-2 because of the Flyers' lack of speed. And Seattle's neutral-zone play is swarming.

Aside from his actual systems, I love the fact that he's gotten a 2nd-year expansion team who no-one predicted would make the playoffs overachieving, playing hard every night, with a bunch of written-off players excelling, and beating the defending champs to proceed into the 2nd round.

Who wouldn't give the man props?

So, what's wrong with Toronto, and is Sheldon Keefe to blame?

No, I was taking the stance that you spoke so glowingly about him and were taking victory laps about the man and yet every time you were asked to explain what exactly you liked about what Hakstol was doing you avoiding the questions because "you don't like to answer questions from assholes."

You can see how that would make someone a little weary of things. So I appreciate you actually answering the question for once.

What's wrong with Toronto? Nothing.

Once again, small sample sizes shouldn't erase good processes and good teams. That happens every single year where people get jumpy and want to blow things up. The Maple Leafs are a well built team that follows good processes who have ran into some misfortune and great teams over the years. It's no different than a number of other teams in recent memory that "can't get it done" until well, they get it done (including the Avalanche) but it's much more fun to say "LOL LEAFS."

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Lightning were talked about like the Leafs currently are for years. Now they aren't.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

After their ECF appearance last season:

The Rangers' additions were Patrick Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko.

They traded away Reaves. Traded Kravtsov.

In what world is that a focus toward grittiness?

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’m just happy there is growing acceptance that John Tortorella is the most important figure moving forward.

It’s not that it can’t work, I’m not crazy enough to say there is zero chance.

It’s just extremely foolish to give a HC this much gravitas.

 

[Beef Invictus]

After their ECF appearance last season:

The Rangers' additions were Patrick Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko.

They traded away Reaves. Traded Kravtsov.

In what world is that a focus toward grittiness?

Oh you've already forgotten about their freakout about Wilson. Short memory.

 

[FlyerNutter]

So what's the problem here?

I mean, Seattle had McCann and Dunn as their top scorers this year. Hak was a dullard here. But they are having some success. It's the Blues model.

I guarantee one thing - if the Flyers land Bedard or Fantilli, it will not be a boring product. One guy really can change everything. They won't be contenders overnight, but one elite star puts butts in seats.

It’s beyond tiring seeing this franchise try to model themselves after these kind of clubs.

The Blues. Columbus. Islanders.

It’s just a personal thing for me, but it’s actually a beautiful game. The Flyers just seem destined to try to WANT to make a team Bobby Clarke would be proud of. Defense. Grit. Bunch of try hard secondary guys.

It’s just stale. Try something new. It’s not as if this shit has worked, and it’s boring AF.

Bedard would help yeah, but they keep trying to build a reliable station wagon, instead of even daring to try for a Ferrari. That horseshit old school Flyer brand is destroying this thing year after year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m just happy there is growing acceptance that John Tortorella is the most important figure moving forward.

It’s not that it can’t work, I’m not crazy enough to say there is zero chance.

It’s just extremely foolish to give a HC this much gravitas.

Especially one who hasn't won anything in 20 years. Imagine hiring Tom Coughlin today and giving him full GM power because he did something in 2008.