Boston Bruins 2023-24 Roster and Salary Cap Discussion VI

[TobanWest]

I think what many posters want is SOMEONE on the roster who can knock the crap out of someone else. Its literally that simple. If we just went out and got a Ryan Reeves on our roster, that would be enough for many.

There's a tradition of Bruins teams always having a guy like that, and people miss that. Its a big reason why so many lost their shit when Lucic came back. Its real and it touches on our less rational and more emotional side of being a fan. People LIKE seeing a Bruin player, pound the crap out of the opposition and I get the desire to want to have that. I'd just like to see people simply admit it and leave it at that.

Where you lose me, is when you try to make the argument that having that element significantly improves your chances of winning a Cup.

I agree with you on all but the end. Again not being fixated on a face puncher but for me a Clutterbuck type that hits with purpose instead of these weird fly bys, falling backwards into a player or passing up on a hit altogether. Admittedly for me, a face puncher for the emotional side of me so teams don't take liberties, preferably on D.

Well said.

And its not like this GM hasn't brought in any such players.

If Lucic was still here I'd be silent on this issue.

 

[Oates2Neely]

We've won 1 Cup in 50 years.

The beloved Don Cherry teams of the mid-late 70s, that many posters on this board are nostalgic for (myself included) won 0 Cups. Those teams had some of my heroes. O'Reilly, Middleton, Park, Wensik, Jonathan, Secord....We played a tough, physical game and nobody f***ed with us. We just couldn't get past those soft, cheating Habs. 0 Cups but that's OK because we knocked the shit of people. Am I right?

Fast forward to the late 80s-Early 90s. Beloved Teams that many posters are nostalgic for. Again, 0 Cups. Bourque, Neely, Byers, Burridge etc. A little more skilled, but still gritty. Yet 0 Cups. That's OK though, because we still knocked the shit out of people when we had to.

2011. Cup winner. Beloved team that many posters are nostalgic for, and tons of revisionist history gets tossed around regarding that team's toughness. Mainly because we pushed around a soft Vancouver team in the Final in seven games. Bottom line is that we came within a whisker of getting bounced in the first round, and Tim Thomas carried that team on his back. Nevertheless, they won, and they are legends.

Since then, as @Dennis Bonvie pointed out, we've basically been one of the winngest franchises in the NHL. But we aren't knocking the shit out of people like we used to and people miss that. I get it. I like the physical game too.

If you wanna shit on this roster and the current front office for a lack of toughness. I'm cool with that. But lack of Cups? Come on.

Cap era. Can’t compare. Even playing field these days.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

But it’s also the types of players the GM brings in and the construction of the roster he creates.

The most glaring one pertaining to the bruins being built for the regular season is the goalie tandem which is an elite scenario for the regular season, but the opposite for the postseason. As they’ve finished the last couple postseasons with $5m allocated to a goalie who ended the season riding the bench.

Then there’s the lack of toughness he’s been unable to address.


His rosters are constructed for presidents trophies not Stanley cups.

I think Don's first season he dealt for Rinaldo, signed Beleskey and extended Kevan Miller. His second season he had Randell up for a bit to go with Chara, Belesky, McQuaid and Miller. Signed Backes. 18-19 added Wagner and Clifton. Freddy came up 20-21. Added Hathaway and Bertuzzi at the deadline last year....then Lucic this year... I think he tries, but it just doesn't always work.

 

[Hookslide]

They wouldn't anyway, they spent all of the first round picks until 2025. Too bad they neutered the players they blew those picks on.


Nah, it's pretty simple. How many Cups on Don Sweeney's resume since he's been GM?

Same amount that is on Harry Sindens, resume.

 

[RoccoF14]

I agree with you on all but the end. Again not being fixated on a face puncher but for me a Clutterbuck type that hits with purpose instead of these weird fly bys, falling backwards into a player or passing up on a hit altogether. Admittedly for me, a face puncher for the emotional side of me so teams don't take liberties, preferably on D.


If Lucic was still here I'd be silent on this issue.

I think you make a great point differentiating between mental toughness and physical toughness. Both are important, but if I have to choose, I'll take mental toughness. I also don't think you have to be physically tough to be mentally tough.

Gretzky/Crosby/Yzerman- None tougher....mentally

 

[Hookslide]

We've won 1 Cup in 50 years.

The beloved Don Cherry teams of the mid-late 70s, that many posters on this board are nostalgic for (myself included) won 0 Cups. Those teams had some of my heroes. O'Reilly, Middleton, Park, Wensik, Jonathan, Secord....We played a tough, physical game and nobody f***ed with us. We just couldn't get past those soft, cheating Habs. 0 Cups but that's OK because we knocked the shit of people. Am I right?

Fast forward to the late 80s-Early 90s. Beloved Teams that many posters are nostalgic for. Again, 0 Cups. Bourque, Neely, Byers, Burridge etc. A little more skilled, but still gritty. Yet 0 Cups. That's OK though, because we still knocked the shit out of people when we had to.

2011. Cup winner. Beloved team that many posters are nostalgic for, and tons of revisionist history gets tossed around regarding that team's toughness. Mainly because we pushed around a soft Vancouver team in the Final in seven games. Bottom line is that we came within a whisker of getting bounced in the first round, and Tim Thomas carried that team on his back. Nevertheless, they won, and they are legends.

Since then, as @Dennis Bonvie pointed out, we've basically been one of the winngest franchises in the NHL. But we aren't knocking the shit out of people like we used to and people miss that. I get it. I like the physical game too.

If you wanna shit on this roster and the current front office for a lack of toughness. I'm cool with that. But lack of Cups? Come on.

Those Cherry, coached teams and the 80s/90s teams you reference were pre salary cap, Neely, and Middleton, always felt they were one player away, but Jacobs and his lackey, boot licking GM Harry never went out to get that player. But after the playoffs were over Harry would, like a ritual blame the goaltender.

 

[PB37]

I know there’s no magic button.

However the bruins are the top regular season team in points over the last decade. All the other teams in the top 5 regular season points have cups during that span.

There is a direct correlation to regular season success resulting in postseason success for every team close to the bruins in points over the last decade, but the bruins are the anomaly.

Why does it translate for all the other top teams but not the bruins?

Because sometimes, there's no making sense of what happens in the playoffs. It's the most unpredictable of the 4 major sports.

 

[Therick67]

Vegas - Jack Eichel 2nd overall pick
Colorado - Nate MacKinnon first pick overall Cale Makar 4th overall
Tampa - Stamkos first pick overall Victor Hedman 2nd overall
St Louis - Jay Bouweester 3rd overall Alex Pietrangelo 4th overall
Washington - Ovechkin first overall Backstrom 4th overall
Pittsburgh - Crosby first overall Fluery first overall Malkin 2nd overall
LA - Doughty 2nd overall Gaborik 3rd overall
Chicago - Kane first overall Toews 3rd overall

These are certainly some of the factors.

Absolutely. Let’s not forget however that Vegas wasn’t afraid to make a big deal to go out and get Eichel

 

[GordonHowe]

Weighing the pros and cons of an Elias Lindholm trade for Bruins

Elias Lindholm will be a coveted asset at the trade deadline thanks to his profile as a two-way, top-six center. Should the Bruins bite?

www.boston.com

 

[UncleRico]

Vegas - Jack Eichel 2nd overall pick
Colorado - Nate MacKinnon first pick overall Cale Makar 4th overall
Tampa - Stamkos first pick overall Victor Hedman 2nd overall
St Louis - Jay Bouweester 3rd overall Alex Pietrangelo 4th overall
Washington - Ovechkin first overall Backstrom 4th overall
Pittsburgh - Crosby first overall Fluery first overall Malkin 2nd overall
LA - Doughty 2nd overall Gaborik 3rd overall
Chicago - Kane first overall Toews 3rd overall

These are certainly some of the factors.

So are you saying they need to tank to win a cup?

I think Don's first season he dealt for Rinaldo, signed Beleskey and extended Kevan Miller. His second season he had Randell up for a bit to go with Chara, Belesky, McQuaid and Miller. Signed Backes. 18-19 added Wagner and Clifton. Freddy came up 20-21. Added Hathaway and Bertuzzi at the deadline last year....then Lucic this year... I think he tries, but it just doesn't always work.

So you’re saying he’s not good at identifying talented players who are tough basically.

 

[Gordoff]

We all know the answer is zero. What's the point? He's doing a crappy job?

Stupidest argument in team sports: How many championships has he won?

Zero point Zero!

 

[Gordoff]

Vegas - Jack Eichel 2nd overall pick
Colorado - Nate MacKinnon first pick overall Cale Makar 4th overall
Tampa - Stamkos first pick overall Victor Hedman 2nd overall
St Louis - Jay Bouweester 3rd overall Alex Pietrangelo 4th overall
Washington - Ovechkin first overall Backstrom 4th overall
Pittsburgh - Crosby first overall Fluery first overall Malkin 2nd overall
LA - Doughty 2nd overall Gaborik 3rd overall
Chicago - Kane first overall Toews 3rd overall

These are certainly some of the factors.

And basically no early round picks for a while, so I guess we can forget winning the Cup? All spent on "trying" which was fine but then when the rubber met the road, the team went down. So, wait until 2025 for a first rounder. Ok.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So are you saying they need to tank to win a cup?



So you’re saying he’s not good at identifying talented players who are tough basically.

No.

Just pointing out a difference between Bruins and the other top teams.

That's what you asked for, right?

 

[UncleRico]

No.

Just pointing out a difference between Bruins and the other top teams.

That's what you asked for, right?

Yes and you pointed out the difference was other teams had 4 picks on their roster. So indirectly you are saying they either need to tank or I guess go all in to acquire an elite talent who was a top pick if they want to win a cup.

But regardless you are pointing out the current make up of the team doesn’t correlate to the winners of all of the recent Stanley cups one way or another.

 

[GordonHowe]

But it’s also the types of players the GM brings in and the construction of the roster he creates.

The most glaring one pertaining to the bruins being built for the regular season is the goalie tandem which is an elite scenario for the regular season, but the opposite for the postseason. As they’ve finished the last couple postseasons with $5m allocated to a goalie who ended the season riding the bench.

Then there’s the lack of toughness he’s been unable to address.


His rosters are constructed for presidents trophies not Stanley cups.

And there you have it. Thank you, sir.

 

[NeelyDan]

I think what many posters want is SOMEONE on the roster who can knock the crap out of someone else. Its literally that simple. If we just went out and got a Ryan Reeves on our roster, that would be enough for many.

There's a tradition of Bruins teams always having a guy like that, and people miss that. Its a big reason why so many lost their shit when Lucic came back. Its real and it touches on our less rational and more emotional side of being a fan. People LIKE seeing a Bruin player, pound the crap out of the opposition and I get the desire to want to have that. I'd just like to see people simply admit it and leave it at that.

Where you lose me, is when you try to make the argument that having that element significantly improves your chances of winning a Cup.

It's both, though - you are absolutely bang on that some people just want their pound of flesh with the Bruin coming out on top. When we move to the part of the conversation about improving playoff chances, though, it's not about that at all, really - the definition of tough in THAT context has to be team-wide, in their DNA, hammer v nail, pack mentality, etc etc etc

 

[GordonHowe]

I think Don's first season he dealt for Rinaldo, signed Beleskey and extended Kevan Miller. His second season he had Randell up for a bit to go with Chara, Belesky, McQuaid and Miller. Signed Backes. 18-19 added Wagner and Clifton. Freddy came up 20-21. Added Hathaway and Bertuzzi at the deadline last year....then Lucic this year... I think he tries, but it just doesn't always work.

It has never worked.

It's both, though - you are absolutely bang on that some people just want their pound of flesh with the Bruin coming out on top. When we move to the part of the conversation about improving playoff chances, though, it's not about that at all, really - the definition of tough in THAT context has to be team-wide, in their DNA, hammer v nail, pack mentality, etc etc etc

What part of this analysis is difficult to understand?

What part of this is a mystery to Don Sweeney?

All you have to do is look at Cup winners. Of course they have speed and skill. They also possess team toughness.

Again, it isn't rocket science. It isn't Cromag.

It's a winning formula.

"Is there a chair here I can talk to?"

 

[UncleRico]

Because sometimes, there's no making sense of what happens in the playoffs. It's the most unpredictable of the 4 major sports.

I don’t know if I agree with that. Based off what metrics?

4 out of the 5 best regular season teams over the last decade have won cups. Regular season success has translated to postseason success for all the top teams in the league except the bruins.

NFL 3 out of 5 top regular season teams have won the Super Bowl in the last 10 years

MLB 2 out of the top 5 best regular season teams have won the World Series

NBA 3 out of the top 5 regular season teams have won championships.

At least over the last decade, regular season success has translated to postseason success for the top teams the most in the NHL with the bruins being the outlier.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

It has never worked.


What part of this analysis is difficult to understand?

What part of this is a mystery to Don Sweeney?

All you have to do is look at Cup winners. Of course they have speed and skill. They also possess team toughness.

Again, it isn't rocket science. It isn't Cromag.

It's a winning formula.

"Is there a chair here I can talk to?"

Who was tough on Colorado?

 

[PB37]

I don’t know if I agree with that. Based off what metrics?

4 out of the 5 best regular season teams over the last decade have won cups. Regular season success has translated to postseason success for all the top teams in the league except the bruins.

NFL 3 out of 5 top regular season teams have won the Super Bowl in the last 10 years

MLB 2 out of the top 5 best regular season teams have won the World Series

NBA 3 out of the top 5 regular season teams have won championships.

At least over the last decade, regular season success has translated to postseason success for the top teams the most in the NHL with the bruins being the outlier.

For starters, you're taking a complied number of regular season wins over 10 years and trying to reason with it to predict a singular season championship. Each season is different, comes with its own caveats, pitfalls, challenges. In the past 10 years, the Bruins have gone to the Finals 2 times. That doesn't scream regular season team to me. They haven't been fortunate enough to get over the hump.

Again, 2019 was there for the players to take and they blew it. 2023, the management went all in and shit didn't go their way. I don't see how that's a fault of the GM. If Thomas doesn't play out of his mind, Bruins would be Cupless for 50ish years.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yes and you pointed out the difference was other teams had 4 picks on their roster. So indirectly you are saying they either need to tank or I guess go all in to acquire an elite talent who was a top pick if they want to win a cup.

But regardless you are pointing out the current make up of the team doesn’t correlate to the winners of all of the recent Stanley cups one way or another.

Not saying that at all.

As mentioned before, the fact that they got to a game 7 (at home) in th finals means to me they could win a Cup without one of those players.

 

[UncleRico]

For starters, you're taking a complied number of regular season wins over 10 years and trying to reason with it to predict a singular season championship. Each season is different, comes with its own caveats, pitfalls, challenges. In the past 10 years, the Bruins have gone to the Finals 2 times. That doesn't scream regular season team to me. They haven't been fortunate enough to get over the hump.

Again, 2019 was there for the players to take and they blew it. 2023, the management went all in and shit didn't go their way. I don't see how that's a fault of the GM. If Thomas doesn't play out of his mind, Bruins would be Cupless for 50ish years.

Answer me this questions:


If postseason success is unpredictable as you claim why has it been so predictable for the four other top regular season teams, but not the bruins?

 

[GordonHowe]

Who was tough on Colorado?

How did I know this would come up? I am not an expert on Colorado's Cup winning roster in 2022.

Someone who knows better might answer your question.

Let's say they were all speed, all skill, zero physicality, yet still won the Cup. If that's true, and I doubt it, they would nonetheless be outliers in doing so. Any other club that has won it all -- including the late 90s Red Wings, which Sweeney has referred to as his model -- has had speed, skill and toughness.

I am not talking about players who fight. I am talking about teams that finish their checks, wear their opponent down by doing so in relentless fashion, and make them think twice when going into the corners.

There is a difference.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Who was tough on Colorado?

They went out and toughened up their roster for that Cup run/win after Knights mauled them.

They also carried a top3 HW the entire year.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

They went out and toughened up their roster for that Cup run/win after Knights mauled them.

They also carried a top3 HW the entire year.

Who didn’t play in the playoffs