Boston Bruins 2023-24 Roster and Salary Cap Discussion IVX-post TDL

[dugg133]

There’s an argument to be made for keeping Ullmark and trading Swayman. The age difference is the big thing, but there’s no reason Ullmark can’t give you another 5 seasons or more of top goaltending barring a bad injury.

I think the only real argument for trading Sway is if some team offers you some package so insane that you can't say no. Like it'd have to be like an unrpotected 1st + a good prospect + a good roster player. I'm not giving up a 25 year old #1 goalie for anything less. But I don't see anyone paying something like that given how many goalies will be on the market.

 

[Sheppy]

We're not paying one goaltender $12M, so I'm not sure why this is the question.

No, but you're wrapping up $12+M in goaltending when neither guy has eclipsed playing 50 games in a season. Also, not one of those goaltenders has pulled away and became the number 1 guy. One guy can look like he's pulling away with it for a week or so, then look pretty, well... bad the next week.

I get the logic of wanting both guys, but for a guy to be making north of $7M without being the legitimate starter of a goalie duo is a lot, It just is. If both guys came in at $10M or less, I wouldn't hate it, but I'd just wish the money get used elsewhere.

 

[goldnblack]

I'd rather they use that money on a legit #1 C.

$12-13 million wrapped up in two goalies to play half a season each is a lot.

Is there one? And I mean a real 1C. I don't mean a guy who could easily wind up as our 3C.

I'm just curious who that is. I'm not saying I disagree. I just don't see one out there.

I do see plenty of legit 3C's we could put in there without breaking the bank.

I ask because I'd love to leak to Drai that we'd give him 13M in 2025. I'm good waiting for that C class of UFA's. Konecny is in that class, etc.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

No, but you're wrapping up $12+M in goaltending when neither guy has eclipsed playing 50 games in a season. Also, not one of those goaltenders has pulled away and became the number 1 guy. One guy can look like he's pulling away with it for a week or so, then look pretty, well... bad the next week.

I get the logic of wanting both guys, but for a guy to be making north of $7M without being the legitimate starter of a goalie duo is a lot, It just is. If both guys came in at $10M or less, I wouldn't hate it, but I'd just wish the money get used elsewhere.

Your first paragraph describes an argument for keeping both goalies.

Your second appears to be an argument for trading Swayman.

 

[Sheppy]

Your first paragraph describes an argument for keeping both goalies.

Your second appears to be an argument for trading Swayman.

Do you think they should roll with two goalies taking up what's likely to be $12M+?

I just think $7M+ is legitimate 60+ game starting goalie money.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Zero chance both Ullmark and Swayman return next year, enjoy them while you can.

 

[Dr Hook]

I think the only real argument for trading Sway is if some team offers you some package so insane that you can't say no. Like it'd have to be like an unrpotected 1st + a good prospect + a good roster player. I'm not giving up a 25 year old #1 goalie for anything less. But I don't see anyone paying something like that given how many goalies will be on the market.

I would prefer to keep Sway also if it were down to one or the other for that very reason. But there are always a ton of moving parts in a roster that GM deals with. Say there is an opportunity to get Hanifin signed, and perhaps a center like Lindholm, and you need cap space. Ullmark has another season at $5m. You kick his cost down the road for a year and Sway ends up being moved instead of having his new $7m+ deal on the cap,. That is just one potential scenario among many. I guess what I am getting at is that depending on the situation it could make sense to keep Ullmark and not Swayman and the team is not worse off with one or the other.

 

[dugg133]

I would prefer to keep Sway also if it were down to one or the other for that very reason. But there are always a ton of moving parts in a roster that GM deals with. Say there is an opportunity to get Hanifin signed, and perhaps a center like Lindholm, and you need cap space. Ullmark has another season at $5m. You kick his cost down the road for a year and Sway ends up being moved instead of having his new $7m+ deal on the cap,. That is just one potential scenario among many. I guess what I am getting at is that depending on the situation it could make sense to keep Ullmark and not Swayman and the team is not worse off with one or the other.

If you need to free up cap space you move guys like Geekie or Peeke before you even consider moving Swayman. There is no scenario where trading a 25 year old top 10 goalie makes sense unless someone is giving you a kings ransom for him.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Do you think they should roll with two goalies taking up what's likely to be $12M+?

I just think $7M+ is legitimate 60+ game starting goalie money.

To answer your question, yes I do. I have a limit and that's certainly upper-tier of that ceiling. But I think it's clear where my preference lies.

For your second sentence, how do you feel about Swayman and that contract? Because he's never done what you're asking of him in that scenario.

 

[Dr Hook]

If you need to free up cap space you move guys like Geekie or Peeke before you even consider moving Swayman. There is no scenario where trading a 25 year old top 10 goalie makes sense unless someone is giving you a kings ransom for him.

We just don't know really know what Sweeney is thinking here, though. This is not a shot at your post in particular, but we often hear "just move so and so" as if it were that easy. It almost never is. And then there is the Bussi factor. How does the org feel about him? If they think he is ready to step in a play 25-30 games or more then your backup spot is covered at cheap money. I am not arguing to move Sway and keep Ullmark, but to my mind it just isn't that black and white, especially when it isn't remotely clear that Swayman is the better of the two.

 

[BruinDust]

If they extended Swayman for 7.5, and did the same for Ullmark the following summer (15 million combined), they'd only be paying out 550k more than what the Florida Panthers are currently paying out against their cap for goaltending (14.450 million)

So with a rising cap, 15 million combined for Swayman/Ullmark come 2025-26 is still less of a % of cap space than Florida has allotted for 2023-24.

They literally have 3.3 million in cap space buried in the minors for Spencer Knight. That's almost 60% of what Ullmark currently makes. And it hasn't hurt them it seems. Just food for thought.

 

[Sheppy]

To answer your question, yes I do. I have a limit and that's certainly upper-tier of that ceiling. But I think it's clear where my preference lies.

For your second sentence, how do you feel about Swayman and that contract? Because he's never done what you're asking of him in that scenario.

Honestly, not good...

Paying someone $7M+ without seeing that goalie take on a starting role and is hovering around a .900 save percentage without winning a playoff series is a lot of money for said goalie. Yeah.

This years post season can change that argument, though.

 

[Dr Hook]

If they extended Swayman for 7.5, and did the same for Ullmark the following summer (15 million combined), they'd only be paying out 550k more than what the Florida Panthers are currently paying out against their cap for goaltending (14.450 million)

So with a rising cap, 15 million combined for Swayman/Ullmark come 2025-26 is still less of a % of cap space than Florida has allotted for 2023-24.

They literally have 3.3 million in cap space buried in the minors for Spencer Knight. That's almost 60% of what Ullmark currently makes. And it hasn't hurt them it seems. Just food for thought.

Good post- I love this kind of conversation when it happens. So for the Bruins in this deal, they short-term have to decide not to address the defense any further and go with what they have and hope Lohrei is top 4 at this stage in his career, and keep the centers they have and hope that Poitras comes back better. And then again, the current crop of centers have manage to do alright and an expensive FA might not be needed. The D feels a bit sketchier on the left if they let Grizz and Forbort go, and go with guys currently under contract. It is viable though and the Bruins still ice a good team.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

To put it another way, what if Swayman is demanding Vasilevskiy money? Well in that scenario, you'd definitely have to move Ullmark.

But then you're signing a backup behind Sway. If you're lucky - that guy is making a buck and a half. That puts you at $11M for two goaltenders. Too much, right? And to expect the performance of those two guys to equal what we've seen for the last two seasons is an iffy proposition at best.

This isn't entirely unrealistic. However if the rumoured contract is true (which is what I'm basing my opinion on) then an extra $1M to keep this tandem together for another year is a pittance.

 

[PB37]

Starting to think maybe Brazeau should start seeing regular shifts on the third line with Freddy and Geekie.

 

[Dr Hook]

To put it another way, what if Swayman is demanding Vasilevskiy money? Well in that scenario, you'd definitely have to move Ullmark.

But then you're signing a backup behind Sway. If you're lucky - that guy is making a buck and a half. That puts you at $11M for two goaltenders. Too much, right? And to expect the performance of those two guys to equal what we've seen for the last two seasons is an iffy proposition at best.

This isn't entirely unrealistic. However if the rumoured contract is true (which is what I'm basing my opinion on) then an extra $1M to keep this tandem together for another year is a pittance.

If Sway is demanding a Vasi contract (which I don't think he will as he has no real grounds to demand that sort of deal) then I'd prefer to keep Ullmark and move Sway. Bussi is your back up on a cheap deal, and you then deal with re-signing Ullmark in another year.

 

[Sheppy]

If Swayman is demading Vasi money... well, see ya.

 

[BruinDust]

Good post- I love this kind of conversation when it happens. So for the Bruins in this deal, they short-term have to decide not to address the defense any further and go with what they have and hope Lohrei is top 4 at this stage in his career, and keep the centers they have and hope that Poitras comes back better. And then again, the current crop of centers have manage to do alright and an expensive FA might not be needed. The D feels a bit sketchier on the left if they let Grizz and Forbort go, and go with guys currently under contract. It is viable though and the Bruins still ice a good team.

Honestly I don't think there is much they can do this summer to upgrade the left side in any significant manner. Seems like the good ship Hanifin has sailed and the rest of the UFA market for left-shooting D-men is stomach turning. Some idiot GM is going to hand over a pile of money and term to Brady Skjei this summer because there are no other alternatives and he's easily the 2nd best D-man available, which isn't saying much. Decent player, not one I'm hitching my wagon to.

If it's cap space needed from the goaltenders to upgrade this summer, I don't see how they can spend it unless it's up front.

The other question for me is what are the alternatives? Because the UFA goalie market isn't great either. And the few that I would call more proven commodities, your probably looking a 2.5-3.5 million a year. Saving a grand total of 1.5-2.5 million going with a UFA back-up over Ullmark.

The part we really don't know and I think is crucial to the entire equation......what does the front office think of Brandon Bussi? Because he's the only realistic replacement for Ullmark IMO unless there is a trade where a goalie comes back. If they had followed through and dealt Ullmark at the deadline, was Bussi in line for a call-up? I'd say very likely and may give us an indication of what they think of Bussi and his future in Boston.

All that to say that I have no preference really but if I was a betting man, I'd bet on a Swayman/Bussi tandem next year with Swayman upping his workload to 50-55 games.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Honestly I don't think there is much they can do this summer to upgrade the left side in any significant manner. Seems like the good ship Hanifin has sailed and the rest of the UFA market for left-shooting D-men is stomach turning. Some idiot GM is going to hand over a pile of money and term to Brady Skjei this summer because there are no other alternatives and he's easily the 2nd best D-man available, which isn't saying much. Decent player, not one I'm hitching my wagon to.

If it's cap space needed from the goaltenders to upgrade this summer, I don't see how they can spend it unless it's up front.

The other question for me is what are the alternatives? Because the UFA goalie market isn't great either. And the few that I would call more proven commodities, your probably looking a 2.5-3.5 million a year. Saving a grand total of 1.5-2.5 million going with a UFA back-up over Ullmark.

The part we really don't know and I think is crucial to the entire equation......what does the front office think of Brandon Bussi? Because he's the only realistic replacement for Ullmark IMO unless there is a trade where a goalie comes back. If they had followed through and dealt Ullmark at the deadline, was Bussi in line for a call-up? I'd say very likely and may give us an indication of what they think of Bussi and his future in Boston.

All that to say that I have no preference really but if I was a betting man, I'd bet on a Swayman/Bussi tandem next year with Swayman upping his workload to 50-55 games.

I’d bet that they’d want to trade Ullmark for a roster player not futures.

 

[analyser]

I say one of Swayman or Ullmark will depart in the off season. Should Swayman get 7m you do not want to pay your backup 5m when you have other important holes to fill.

Should Ullmark depart I hope Swayman can handle the heavy load. That is something that will have to happen in the near future.

 

[Sheppy]

I say one of Swayman or Ullmark will depart in the off season. Should Swayman get 7m you do not want to pay your backup 5m when you have other important holes to fill.

Should Ullmark depart I hope Swayman can handle the heavy load. That is something that will have to happen in the near future.

This is my thing. Neither have ran away with the starting role, which to me is kind of why I worry about forking out a hefty contract to a guy who doesn't start two straight games, let alone 60 in a season.

If they go into the playoffs and look like ass again, do you still fully commit to this?

 

[goldnblack]

If they extended Swayman for 7.5, and did the same for Ullmark the following summer (15 million combined), they'd only be paying out 550k more than what the Florida Panthers are currently paying out against their cap for goaltending (14.450 million)

So with a rising cap, 15 million combined for Swayman/Ullmark come 2025-26 is still less of a % of cap space than Florida has allotted for 2023-24.

They literally have 3.3 million in cap space buried in the minors for Spencer Knight. That's almost 60% of what Ullmark currently makes. And it hasn't hurt them it seems. Just food for thought.

That Florida is doing that is a bug, not a feature. They wish they weren't doing that.

 

[yazmybaby]

Zero chance both Ullmark and Swayman return next year, enjoy them while you can.

Totally agree with you.
We have an asset in LU and two AHL goalies that are knocking on the door that can play in the NHL.
And two decent prospects in Dyck and Svedeback.
Ullmark will be traded by draft day.

 

[BruinDust]

I’d bet that they’d want to trade Ullmark for a roster player not futures.

The return is the other part of the equation. What can they expect to get back for Ullmark if it's roster players coming back?

I still think the whole Dubois stuff was complete bull-shit. I don't even know how Sweeney could sell that to ownership to take on that massive financial commitment to a very questionable player who has caused issues his entire career basically. Sinden would of told Dubois to practice his yodeling had he already been a Bruin and never would of put up with Dubois's crap.

To me, they were either in on Hertl (bullet dodged there) and Ullmark squashed it because San Jose are gonna stink for years, or they had Ullmark traded to Ottawa for Chychrun or Chabot and Ullmark squashed it because he knows full well that Ottawa's reputation around the league as a Mickey Mouse level sports organization.

 

[dugg133]

We just don't know really know what Sweeney is thinking here, though. This is not a shot at your post in particular, but we often hear "just move so and so" as if it were that easy. It almost never is. And then there is the Bussi factor. How does the org feel about him? If they think he is ready to step in a play 25-30 games or more then your backup spot is covered at cheap money. I am not arguing to move Sway and keep Ullmark, but to my mind it just isn't that black and white, especially when it isn't remotely clear that Swayman is the better of the two.

We kinda do know what Sweeney is thinking though. Like we know for a fact he was actively trying to trade Ullmark at the deadline. We also know that teams called about Swayman and got shut down. Think it's pretty obvious which is getting traded and which is staying, and I don't see that changing unless someone offers something crazy for Swayman.