Prospect Info: 2023-24 Ducks Prospects

[mighty Stanley Duck]

Prospect Update, Oct 30th: AHL and ECHL

The Gulls aren't looking great. San Diego is on a 4-game losing streak. F De Leo will be out until December. They also lost D Hagg to a call-up on the Ducks four game road trip. When players come off the IR, then the Ducks will have to send player(s) down. That would mean more infusion of talent for the Gulls.

Not looking good, i expected more and still expecting from Gaucher, Pastujov.

 

[Masch78]

Madden sucks at drafting forwards though.

This is not a one man show. The whole group is doing sort of strange rankings when we talk about forwards.

On the one hand they were able to find jewels like Kase or Terry in low rounds. On the other hand they miss out a lot. For me the Batherson story is sort of showing it. They scouted him heavily (signed Fiore) but did draft 3 forwards until he was gone.

Comtois (I can fully understand)
Morand (controversial for me)
Badini (did not understand that)

What I absolutely do not get is how we select. We go for smaller players (Steel) or risky ones (Tracey) but somehow never the real boom/bust way. But we do with defense.

 

[Kalv]

Sometimes there are just no players at that position. But most recently: Snuggerud was picked right after we picked Gaucher. Greig was picked right after we picked Perreault. Pinto was picked shortly after Tracey... We just obviously make a lot of poor decisions for F. Just rather pick all D as we're great with that and then trade them
We're obviously bad at drafting F

 

[Masch78]

Regarding Perreault, I still hope he can be fixed. Those tools he has would be so welcome.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Regarding Perreault, I still hope he can be fixed. Those tools he has would be so welcome.

Hoping he’ll get a shot after deadline.

 

[Gliff]

Sometimes there are just no players at that position. But most recently: Snuggerud was picked right after we picked Gaucher. Greig was picked right after we picked Perreault. Pinto was picked shortly after Tracey... We just obviously make a lot of poor decisions for F. Just rather pick all D as we're great with that and then trade them
We're obviously bad at drafting F

This happens all the time that good players are selected after misses. The Ducks are one of the, if not the #1, best drafting teams in the NHL by any realistic metric you can think of. And they have been since 2008. They have misses like everyone else, but they have a WAY higher success rate then the vast majority of teams in every round.

Yes, the Ducks have not drafted many top 6 forwards in that time, but that does not make a team a good drafting team. Who would you say has had success at drafting forwards? Boston?

Kessel
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin
Pastrnak
DeBrusk
Poitras (assuming it isnt a flash in the pan)

Ya that is impressive. They also haven't drafted a player that has played 100 NHL games since 2016, they had 4 drafts from 2007-2016 where they got literally nothing out of it, not to mention that doozie in 2015 when they had 3 1st rounders and the 3 guys after were Barzal, Connor, and Chabot.

Every team has misses.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

This is not a one man show. The whole group is doing sort of strange rankings when we talk about forwards.

On the one hand they were able to find jewels like Kase or Terry in low rounds. On the other hand they miss out a lot. For me the Batherson story is sort of showing it. They scouted him heavily (signed Fiore) but did draft 3 forwards until he was gone.

Comtois (I can fully understand)
Morand (controversial for me)
Badini (did not understand that)

What I absolutely do not get is how we select. We go for smaller players (Steel) or risky ones (Tracey) but somehow never the real boom/bust way. But we do with defense.

There's only one true boom/bust prospect the Ducks have drafted and it's Perreault. Perreault is the 2020 version of Kaliyev of the 2019 draft, a big time sniper who has detrimental work ethic. If people complain about missing Kaliyev, then they cannot complaing about selecting Perreault.

The rest of the picks in the late 1st and early 2nd rounds are usually late risers. There really isn't a boom/bust strategy for D-men b/c they're hitting on them all the time. With D-men, they have a great feel for projected development.

Outside the top-10, the org has trouble understanding who could pop. Before we picked Steel (small player), we selected Jones (big player). Steel's D+1 had him break out for 131 points and 50 goals in the WHL! He was productive in the AHL. But that jump to the NHL is a huge jump. Another forward who looked amazing one season in the OHL and a dud the next was Julius Nattinen. He was mishandled in the OHL terribly!

Lundy is a solid selection, but Rakell was a homerun at 30th overall. Palmieri also became a hit at 26th. Wild Bill needed three franchises to find himself, but that talent was evident when we selected him in the 2nd round.

I think because the Ducks are amazing at drafting D-men and goalies, that it skews not hitting on forwards even though we do get some hits. But we do ignore how we've hit a lot when drafting in the top-10: Ritchie (miss), Zegras (hit), McTavish (hit), and Carlsson (look like a hit). If we look at an organization 30 minutes away, the Kings haven't hit on their top-10 forward selections, including #2 pick Byfield.

The further away from the top-10 picks, the larger the gamble a player will be highly successful. We just happen to buck the trend when it comes to defensemen and goalies.

 

[AngelDuck]

I don’t under the Myatovic and Gaucher picks are very frustrating. Gaucher in particular

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

If Gaucher becomes a shutdown 3C, it’s fine. The picks have already been made so it’s all up to development staff and players which can’t be judged yet.

Carlsson-McT-Gaucher down the middle will give teams problems and he’ll take on harder matchups if he reaches his potential

 

[Quack Shot]

Id say when we had to go into the playoffs with Dan Ellis and Ray Emery was a rough time. Though Hiller was there that year. I think he got injured for the season.

That was Hiller’s Vezina caliber first half, then All-Star puck to the mask vertigo career ender.

 

[Static]

Dionicio has an early assist.

 

[Static]

Dionicio has an early assist.

Two assists now.

 

[Static]

Terrance also has an assist.

 

[Static]

Sidorov is 1+1

 

[Static]

 

[Hinterland]

Two assists now.

Just the 4th win of the season for the Spitfires. It was a costly one though as Dionicio appears to be injured. Didn't finish the game. I believe Windsor lost a couple of other players in this one as well and Liam Greentree, their leading scorer and their lone player with more points than Dionicio, is out already.

We'll see. Hopefully nothing long term. Dionicio could be one of the bigger pieces in play this season. If he's healthy that is.

 

[Masch78]

I don’t under the Myatovic and Gaucher picks are very frustrating. Gaucher in particular

Myatovic cries Tracey for me. Great complementary player as per Madden. Gaucher played Q which is heavily scouted by Martin himself. Again a similar approach, they tend to go for the safer pick. Gaucher can play all positions, if he figures it out he can be very good, if not he can be Bo Groulx.

Still, reading all the scouting reports of the 22 Draft again I really wonder on what we based our rankings. Snuggerud was also a great fit imho. But what I wonder the most is passing on Kulich. Great skater, great in leadership, awesome shot. All we lack tremendously in our system as well. Lighting up the WJC. So much we used to love.

A potential goal scorer for Trevor to play with.

I mean, passing on that shooting ability?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Myatovic cries Tracey for me. Great complementary player as per Madden. Gaucher played Q which is heavily scouted by Martin himself. Again a similar approach, they tend to go for the safer pick. Gaucher can play all positions, if he figures it out he can be very good, if not he can be Bo Groulx.

Still, reading all the scouting reports of the 22 Draft again I really wonder on what we based our rankings. Snuggerud was also a great fit imho. But what I wonder the most is passing on Kulich. Great skater, great in leadership, awesome shot. All we lack tremendously in our system as well. Lighting up the WJC. So much we used to love.

A potential goal scorer for Trevor to play with.

I mean, passing on that shooting ability?

IMO, Gaucher is a Verbeek pick. It's his way of putting a physical stamp for his future team. The 2022 draft had a height agenda. The shortest pick was D Mintyukov at 6'1. Gaucher's play and production truly reminded of Groulx, but we got Groulx in the middle of the 2nd round.

A few of us highlighted Snuggerud and Kulich for our 22nd pick. With the height agenda, then 6'0 Kulich was not an option. With Buffalo, they were desperately trying to trade up to acquire Kulich. A year later, it appears Kulich grew an inch as per Elite Prospects. Snuggerud did fit the height requirements and had scoring prowess. I think Verbeek overruled the scouts and fell in love with Gaucher.

Kinda lost at the knocking of Tracey when he fits the similar mold of Kulich pre-draft.

As for Myatovic, I don't know if "safe" is the correct word. He fit into that range of 6'2 or taller forwards from selection 33 to 55. He's a similar pick to Tracey such that he's a late riser. Myatovic is a shutdown forward who found offense in his D+0 season. Tracey was not known for his defense, but his high end offense.

Surprisingly, the Ducks did draft someone like Myatovic a year earlier before making that huge offensive jump in production in shutdown forward Connor Hvidston in the fifth round. Hvidston is only 3 months older than Myatovic. Due to their defensive play, Hvidston and Myatovic can play up and down the line, but Tracey is typecasted into a top-6 scoring role. And if Tracey can't fit into a top-6 scoring role, then he's practically useless.

Unfortunately, both Hvidston and Myatovic ran into serious injury to start their season. And both over a point-per-game rate.

Now, if you want to focus on a forward in the 2023 draft outside of Carlsson, then focus your eyes on Terrance. Read lots of good scouting on Terrance before the draft and he was one of the players I wanted in the 2nd round. Here is my pool of players I liked for the 2nd round: RW Halttunen, C Nelson, D Gibson, LW Myatovic, C Terrance, and G Clara.

 

[tomd]

IMO, Gaucher is a Verbeek pick. It's his way of putting a physical stamp for his future team. The 2022 draft had a height agenda. The shortest pick was D Mintyukov at 6'1. Gaucher's play and production truly reminded of Groulx, but we got Groulx in the middle of the 2nd round.

A few of us highlighted Snuggerud and Kulich for our 22nd pick. With the height agenda, then 6'0 Kulich was not an option. With Buffalo, they were desperately trying to trade up to acquire Kulich. A year later, it appears Kulich grew an inch as per Elite Prospects. Snuggerud did fit the height requirements and had scoring prowess. I think Verbeek overruled the scouts and fell in love with Gaucher.

Kinda lost at the knocking of Tracey when he fits the similar mold of Kulich pre-draft.

As for Myatovic, I don't know if "safe" is the correct word. He fit into that range of 6'2 or taller forwards from selection 33 to 55. He's a similar pick to Tracey such that he's a late riser. Myatovic is a shutdown forward who found offense in his D+0 season. Tracey was not known for his defense, but his high end offense.

Surprisingly, the Ducks did draft someone like Myatovic a year earlier before making that huge offensive jump in production in shutdown forward Connor Hvidston in the fifth round. Hvidston is only 3 months older than Myatovic. Due to their defensive play, Hvidston and Myatovic can play up and down the line, but Tracey is typecasted into a top-6 scoring role. And if Tracey can't fit into a top-6 scoring role, then he's practically useless.

Unfortunately, both Hvidston and Myatovic ran into serious injury to start their season. And both over a point-per-game rate.

View attachment 762433

Now, if you want to focus on a forward in the 2023 draft outside of Carlsson, then focus your eyes on Terrance. Read lots of good scouting on Terrance before the draft and he was one of the players I wanted in the 2nd round. Here is my pool of players I liked for the 2nd round: RW Halttunen, C Nelson, D Gibson, LW Myatovic, C Terrance, and G Clara.

I think you are absolutely correct about Gaucher being a Verbeek pick but I also believe Madden loved him as well. Having said that, I think they thought his offensive regression in his draft season was an aberration and that he would dramatically step up his offensive numbers in his D+1 season. Unfortunately, that did not happen and his weaknesses remained his weaknesses. He has shown zero offense in the A so far but we'll see how he progresses. I have no doubt he'll play in the NHL but I project him as a defensive physical 4th liner who can occasionally step up to the 3rd line for short periods. Not a bad result...if he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I have higher aspirations for a 22OA pick though.

 

[Deuce22]

I think you are absolutely correct about Gaucher being a Verbeek pick but I also believe Madden loved him as well. Having said that, I think they thought his offensive regression in his draft season was an aberration and that he would dramatically step up his offensive numbers in his D+1 season. Unfortunately, that did not happen and his weaknesses remained his weaknesses. He has shown zero offense in the A so far but we'll see how he progresses. I have no doubt he'll play in the NHL but I project him as a defensive physical 4th liner who can occasionally step up to the 3rd line for short periods. Not a bad result...if he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I have higher aspirations for a 22OA pick though.

I would be closer to your position if not for an obvious attempt by Verbeek to remake the Ducks into a more physical/chippy/tough to play against hockey team. If the goal at #22 was to pick the forward that would score the most points, then Gaucher wasn't the guy. If the goal was to fill out the roster with something it didn't have (big, physical defensive center that could PK) then the pick makes sense. I guess you could argue that Gaucher could have been drafted later, but if Madden/Verbeek really wanted him for the reasons stated above, why not? I think Verbeek is happy with the prospects that are going to be scorers and wanted something different to give the roster balance.

 

[tomd]

I would be closer to your position if not for an obvious attempt by Verbeek to remake the Ducks into a more physical/chippy/tough to play against hockey team. If the goal at #22 was to pick the forward that would score the most points, then Gaucher wasn't the guy. If the goal was to fill out the roster with something it didn't have (big, physical defensive center that could PK) then the pick makes sense. I guess you could argue that Gaucher could have been drafted later, but if Madden/Verbeek really wanted him for the reasons stated above, why not? I think Verbeek is happy with the prospects that are going to be scorers and wanted something different to give the roster balance.

Yes, I agree that Verbeek drafted for perceived need rather than BPA. The pick could have been a brilliant one if Gaucher's skills would have continued to develop in his D+1 year but they didn't. Offensively, he was the same player at 19 as he was at 17. No bueno. I think Verbeek/Madden envisioned Gaucher as a middle six guy who could put up 20/20 type numbers plus add physicality and defense. And if he develops into that it will be a brilliant pick. Based on his progression since he was 17, however, I see Derek Grant/Bo Groulx instead. Time will tell but I'm not encouraged at all.

 

[Static]

Ian Moore has an assist today.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I would be closer to your position if not for an obvious attempt by Verbeek to remake the Ducks into a more physical/chippy/tough to play against hockey team. If the goal at #22 was to pick the forward that would score the most points, then Gaucher wasn't the guy. If the goal was to fill out the roster with something it didn't have (big, physical defensive center that could PK) then the pick makes sense. I guess you could argue that Gaucher could have been drafted later, but if Madden/Verbeek really wanted him for the reasons stated above, why not? I think Verbeek is happy with the prospects that are going to be scorers and wanted something different to give the roster balance.

Gaucher is a shutdown forward and totally a Verbeek pick as it differs from previous picks from the former GM. I also think that Verbeek didn't trust our prospects or didn't have enough time to evaluate them. For example, Verbeek had never seen Hinds play until the 2022 summer rookie tourney and training camp. Hinds impressed Verbeek much to land an ELC. Similarly, Groulx was overlooked.

IMO Groulx and Gaucher are similar players. Their productions with their respective careers eerily mimic each other. Gaucher is having trouble in his first year in the AHL whereas Groulx looked good. We may have to wait on Gaucher reaching the NHL level, but we definitely need sand paper going into the future.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Colangelo with a multipoint night, 1g (PP goal) + 1a and 6 shots.

 

[Static]

Sidorov has a goal, port an assist.