Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[jMoneyBrah]

If Griers smart he moves Musty for a legit right handed Dman the hold out has me concerned that musty might be a bit of prima-donna. Dickinson might be another valuable trade assets as well he’s in an absolute stacked team and doesn’t really have to play defense sell high for a power forward for Mack

So, in summary, trade:
- power forward prospect for a top defender
- elite defense prospect for a power forward

I mean, we could just demonstrate an inkling of patience here…

 

[one2gamble]

If Griers smart he moves Musty for a legit right handed Dman the hold out has me concerned that musty might be a bit of prima-donna. Dickinson might be another valuable trade assets as well he’s in an absolute stacked team and doesn’t really have to play defense sell high for a power forward for Mack

Drink more panda

 

[TheBeard]

But how is the EK trade number one when it hasn’t produced a mainstay? Granlund isn’t a mainstay unless they extend him or Dickinson gets there but the Meier trade also partially hinges on Dickinson because the 2nd was what was moved to get him. I’d classify Zetterlund as more of a mainstay than Granlund.

Right now we’ve gotten more production from the return on the Karlsson trade (not to mention moving 50 million of that contract) than we have from the Timo trade, where he was essentially gone without a crippling cap hit for years to come.

Essentially the ROI from Timo should have always been high whereas the return for Karlsson prior to his big year should have been a hearty “thank you”.

Essentially I have a hard time defining the success of a trade until the main pieces have shown they’re capable of being legit NHLers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Right now we’ve gotten more production from the return on the Karlsson trade (not to mention moving 50 million of that contract) than we have from the Timo trade, where he was essentially gone without a crippling cap hit for years to come.

Essentially the ROI from Timo should have always been high whereas the return for Karlsson prior to his big year should have been a hearty “thank you”.

Essentially I have a hard time defining the success of a trade until the main pieces have shown they’re capable of being legit NHLers.

We haven’t gotten that much more production out of the Karlsson deal but the long term odds still favor the Meier deal since Zetterlund is a better long term option over Granlund. Any of Dickinson, Mukhamadullin, and Musty panning out make it a huge home run. Even with expectations pre-trade in mind, it’s arguable. Meier’s high qualifying offer was a hurdle in trade value and staying out of an 8 year deal can be seen as more valuable compared to Karlsson’s 10 mil over four years.

I agree though that it’s tough until pieces materialize whether it’s by being a player or being a trade piece. I just think the Meier deal is slightly ahead currently. I think Zetterlund is an under-appreciated part of the rebuild efforts. He’s a huge part of them even having an identity at this stage.

 

[TheBeard]

We haven’t gotten that much more production out of the Karlsson deal but the long term odds still favor the Meier deal since Zetterlund is a better long term option over Granlund. Any of Dickinson, Mukhamadullin, and Musty panning out make it a huge home run. Even with expectations pre-trade in mind, it’s arguable. Meier’s high qualifying offer was a hurdle in trade value and staying out of an 8 year deal can be seen as more valuable compared to Karlsson’s 10 mil over four years.

I agree though that it’s tough until pieces materialize whether it’s by being a player or being a trade piece. I just think the Meier deal is slightly ahead currently. I think Zetterlund is an under-appreciated part of the rebuild efforts. He’s a huge part of them even having an identity at this stage.

When any or all of that happens I'll have it ranked higher lol. It's just my opinion. It's not THE definitive rankings. I also don't see Timo's QO being nearly the financial deterrent as Karlsson's massive contract.

 

[Patty Ice]

If Griers smart he moves Musty for a legit right handed Dman the hold out has me concerned that musty might be a bit of prima-donna. Dickinson might be another valuable trade assets as well he’s in an absolute stacked team and doesn’t really have to play defense sell high for a power forward for Mack

 

[Timo Time]

I’m to lazy to find the Warsofsky thread but you have to give him credit for getting the most out of Walman and some how through the miracles of the hockey gods Kostin

Barfsofsky could never

 

[mogambomoroo]

To reflect this season so far, it's actually crazy how electrifying this team is.

There is no game they are totally out, they've progressed a lot faster than expected. Not saying they are a playoff team, but they have taken a lot of good steps towards. I realistically had no idea Celebrini and Smith would take the wheel this fast. Also didn't expect Walman to take the wheel as the 1D + Liljegren really helping solidify that defence.
Of course we'll see what happens when they face tougher competition, but I could see them at least hanging around. There seems to be a winning locker room even if it doesn't show on the scoreboard.
That's a lot on Celebrini and Smith, they've have brought the light at the end of the tunnel.

And this is without Musty, Chernyshov, Bystedt, Dickinson, Cagnoni, Askarov (except for couple of games)... there is sooo much to look for! I just can't wait to watch the next game.

 

[Jargon]

To reflect this season so far, it's actually crazy how electrifying this team is.

There is no game they are totally out, they've progressed a lot faster than expected. Not saying they are a playoff team, but they have taken a lot of good steps towards. I realistically had no idea Celebrini and Smith would take the wheel this fast. Also didn't expect Walman to take the wheel as the 1D + Liljegren really helping solidify that defence.
Of course we'll see what happens when they face tougher competition, but I could see them at least hanging around. There seems to be a winning locker room even if it doesn't show on the scoreboard.
That's a lot on Celebrini and Smith, they've have brought the light at the end of the tunnel.

And this is without Musty, Chernyshov, Bystedt, Dickinson, Cagnoni, Askarov (except for couple of games)... there is sooo much to look for! I just can't wait to watch the next game.

It’s true, even when the games are frustrating losses it’s a totally different feeling than it has been for the last several years. It’s all excitement and potential right now. I absolutely still think they’re a bottom 5 team but there’s this electricity around them that makes you think… you know if everything goes right..,,

 

[Munnyro]

To reflect this season so far, it's actually crazy how electrifying this team is.

There is no game they are totally out, they've progressed a lot faster than expected. Not saying they are a playoff team, but they have taken a lot of good steps towards. I realistically had no idea Celebrini and Smith would take the wheel this fast. Also didn't expect Walman to take the wheel as the 1D + Liljegren really helping solidify that defence.
Of course we'll see what happens when they face tougher competition, but I could see them at least hanging around. There seems to be a winning locker room even if it doesn't show on the scoreboard.
That's a lot on Celebrini and Smith, they've have brought the light at the end of the tunnel.

And this is without Musty, Chernyshov, Bystedt, Dickinson, Cagnoni, Askarov (except for couple of games)... there is sooo much to look for! I just can't wait to watch the next game.

Nice to see the team hit their stride. Those first 10 games were awful to watch.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When any or all of that happens I'll have it ranked higher lol. It's just my opinion. It's not THE definitive rankings. I also don't see Timo's QO being nearly the financial deterrent as Karlsson's massive contract.

But if it’s based on the now, the now that has a future because they’re RFA at season’s end should be more valued than the UFA, no?

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Why would we trade our only potential impact defenseman for a forward?

So you didn’t read the whole post did you

So, in summary, trade:
- power forward prospect for a top defender
- elite defense prospect for a power forward

I mean, we could just demonstrate an inkling of patience here…

So you didn’t read the post did you

 

[jMoneyBrah]

So you didn’t read the post did you

Did you?

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Did you?

I understand the patience aspect of it however Musty’s hissy fit sit out and trade demand is a major red flag and rarely in the history of sports has a prospect throwing a fit and sitting out has panned out well.

With Dickinson the more scouting reports ive seen on him the more it looks like he’ll be an AHL player for a couple of years before coming to the sharks and even when that happens it’s unlikely he’ll be that impactful. What I don’t think anyone wants to see is San Jose become the Oilers where you are wasting the prime years of Celebrini and Smith and potentially Askarov on waiting for other prospects to catch up or never pan out

 

[Patty Ice]

This is why there has never been an alcoholic solitary bear endemic to China in an NHL front office.

 

[one2gamble]

I understand the patience aspect of it however Musty’s hissy fit sit out and trade demand is a major red flag and rarely in the history of sports has a prospect throwing a fit and sitting out has panned out well.

With Dickinson the more scouting reports ive seen on him the more it looks like he’ll be an AHL player for a couple of years before coming to the sharks and even when that happens it’s unlikely he’ll be that impactful. What I don’t think anyone wants to see is San Jose become the Oilers where you are wasting the prime years of Celebrini and Smith and potentially Askarov on waiting for other prospects to catch up or never pan out

I have no idea what scouting reports you are reading about Dickinson but he still projects as a top pairing dmen. Those take time and you don't move them. He's clowning on his entire league right now.

Musty didnt throw a hissy fit. He wanted to move to a team that would better prepare him for pro hockey. He came to camp and realized his current location isnt helping him. He tried to do what was best for his development, right or wrong.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I understand the patience aspect of it however Musty’s hissy fit sit out and trade demand is a major red flag and rarely in the history of sports has a prospect throwing a fit and sitting out has panned out well.

With Dickinson the more scouting reports ive seen on him the more it looks like he’ll be an AHL player for a couple of years before coming to the sharks and even when that happens it’s unlikely he’ll be that impactful. What I don’t think anyone wants to see is San Jose become the Oilers where you are wasting the prime years of Celebrini and Smith and potentially Askarov on waiting for other prospects to catch up or never pan out

It is completely normal for older prospects to request trades in the CHL, only difference with the Musty situation is for whatever reason despite clearly being in a rebuilding year Sudbury wouldn't trade him.

As somebody else said Musty is almost surely worth more to the Sharks than any other team would be willing to trade for him.

 

[weastern bias]

I understand the patience aspect of it however Musty’s hissy fit sit out and trade demand is a major red flag and rarely in the history of sports has a prospect throwing a fit and sitting out has panned out well.

With Dickinson the more scouting reports ive seen on him the more it looks like he’ll be an AHL player for a couple of years before coming to the sharks and even when that happens it’s unlikely he’ll be that impactful. What I don’t think anyone wants to see is San Jose become the Oilers where you are wasting the prime years of Celebrini and Smith and potentially Askarov on waiting for other prospects to catch up or never pan out

Wasting their prime years?

Celebrini won't hit his prime for 6 years, he's 18, if we're not competitive when he's 24 then we've screwed up, that is in 2031

Now is the time to be patient and build our base of young talent, it is entirely possible to ruin a rebuild by selling futures for win-now pieces too early, the hope is that this is the last year of cellar dwelling and we maintain a steady upward trajectory from here on out, but there's no need to dump rocket fuel on the rebuild, everything is being done methodically and with intent

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Wasting their prime years?

Celebrini won't hit his prime for 6 years, he's 18, if we're not competitive when he's 24 then we've screwed up, that is in 2031

Now is the time to be patient and build our base of young talent, it is entirely possible to ruin a rebuild by selling futures for win-now pieces too early, the hope is that this is the last year of cellar dwelling and we maintain a steady upward trajectory from here on out, but there's no need to dump rocket fuel on the rebuild, everything is being done methodically and with intent

Celebrini’s prime probably starts closer to 21 but I agree with the overall point of being patient. I would hope the team extends that patience with how they treat expiring UFA’s because that’s a part of it. The team should still look to acquire future capital where it makes sense. Fill any gaps created with cap dump trades and free agent signings. Walman, Wennberg, and Granlund are all good examples of these different types of acquisitions.

They should always sell if they’re not making the playoffs. Granlund, Sturm, and Kunin getting moved opens spots for Bystedt, Cardwell, and Graf. Moving Ceci and Rutta opens a spot for Thompson and either Cagnoni or Mukhamadullin. The goalie spot is pretty obvious at this stage.

There will still be room to make improvements on the team as things are made available.

 

[STL Shark]

If Griers smart he moves Musty for a legit right handed Dman the hold out has me concerned that musty might be a bit of prima-donna. Dickinson might be another valuable trade assets as well he’s in an absolute stacked team and doesn’t really have to play defense sell high for a power forward for Mack

The holdout was partially/mostly orchestrated by the Sharks because Sudbury's style of play isn't helping Musty develop... So I guess we're concerned that the Sharks front office are prima-donnas?

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Now I know how hodge feels when he has an unpopular opinion

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

The holdout was partially/mostly orchestrated by the Sharks because Sudbury's style of play isn't helping Musty develop... So I guess we're concerned that the Sharks front office are prima-donnas?

Grier didn’t want to get into why the top San Jose Sharks prospect asked to be moved, saying it was between Musty’s camp and Sudbury, but stressed that he’d like the standoff to end, and soon.

“It’s not ideal. I think we’re trying to support Q as much as we can, but it’s definitely not an ideal situation for him to not be playing,” Grier said on Monday. “At the same time, we’ve kind of let the agent know that there needs to be a resolution to this thing here pretty quickly.”

This tells me it’s not management it’s Musty and this is coming from Grier so if something else was printed I’d love to see it, early reports I read was Musty wanted to heave because the Wolves weren’t going to be competitive and was trying to force a trade to a better team

 

[Hodge]

Musty and Dickinson don’t belong in the same sentence. Dickinson is an actual elite prospect who we shouldn’t trade unless an established star is coming back the other way. Musty is in the Chernyshov/Halttunen/Bystedt tier of our pool as his draft position suggests.

 

[coooldude]

Grier didn’t want to get into why the top San Jose Sharks prospect asked to be moved, saying it was between Musty’s camp and Sudbury, but stressed that he’d like the standoff to end, and soon.

“It’s not ideal. I think we’re trying to support Q as much as we can, but it’s definitely not an ideal situation for him to not be playing,” Grier said on Monday. “At the same time, we’ve kind of let the agent know that there needs to be a resolution to this thing here pretty quickly.”

This tells me it’s not management it’s Musty and this is coming from Grier so if something else was printed I’d love to see it, early reports I read was Musty wanted to heave because the Wolves weren’t going to be competitive and was trying to force a trade to a better team

This is accurate as far as I understand. I don't blame Musty for it too much, and I don't think it's as big a deal as you're saying, but I do think it's worse than if he were crushing it and rounding out his game at Sudbury or elsewhere. He definitely did not look ready at camp and he didn't even look close to ready, where some other players showed a bit more (e.g. Halttunen, who is still not the prospect Musty is).

 

[vortexy]

Not sure how reliable the source is but it looks like Eklund will be on Team Sweden for the 4 Nations https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/PKlqWYm2Rl