Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[weastern bias]

Who are you taking off that top unit for Smith? It's funny when people act like Gushchin's AHL stats entitle him to a job in the top six (he did everything they asked of him!!) but Zetterlund scoring 24 goals in the NHL doesn't entitle him to a spot on the top PP unit.

Toffoli, he exist on this team to give Celebrini a finisher and he has 4 full years under contract so his point totals have no bearing on his future earnings

This is not about what it "deserved", this is about what is in the best interest of our long term development project, Tyler Toffoli will not be on the next great Sharks team, there's a chance Smith will be, he needs the reps

When Celebrini comes back take Granlund and Zetterlund off to run PP2 and have the 3 guys who really, really matter run PP1 in Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund along with Toffoli and Walman as their finisher and point support

 

[Hodge]

Toffoli, he exist on this team to give Celebrini a finisher and he has 4 full years under contract so his point totals have no bearing on his future earnings

This is not about what it "deserved", this is about what is in the best interest of our long term development project, Tyler Toffoli will not be on the next great Sharks team, there's a chance Smith will be, he needs the reps

When Celebrini comes back take Granlund and Zetterlund off to run PP2 and have the 3 guys who really, really matter run PP1 in Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund along with Toffoli and Walman as their finisher and point support

Smith is not a good NHL player right now (which is 100% to be expected and doesn't mean he should be sent down to the Cuda) and taking Toffoli or Granlund off the top unit just to give Smith more reps would probably not sit well with the locker room. This isn't a video game. You can't ask these guys to put their bodies on the line and sacrifice to win every night then purposely weaken your power play, which is this team's only shot at scoring most games, for Smith's long term development.

 

[weastern bias]

Smith is not a good NHL player right now (which is 100% to be expected and doesn't mean he should be sent down to the Cuda) and taking Toffoli or Granlund off the top unit just to give Smith more reps would probably not sit well with the locker room. This isn't a video game. You can't ask these guys to put their bodies on the line and sacrifice to win every night then purposely weaken your power play, which is this team's only shot at scoring most games, for Smith's long term development.

Who gives a f*** about the locker room? There's like 7 guys on this team that will still be here in 5 years and the hope is that Smith isn't just one of them but will also be one of our best players

Meritocracy is a myth, some players are more important than others purely on the basis of who they are, Smith's development is far more important of a priority than maximizing the effectiveness of our top PP unit this year, it's a better use of the season to give him premier deployment rather than the last 45 seconds of a powerplay after an opponent ices the puck so he can pass it to Luke Kunin in the slot

Our best and most important player is 18 years old, if Nico Sturm gets mad at the coaching staff because we're giving our rostered prospects "too much" ice time then he is free to explore his options in free agency, the locker room of the future is going to be built around these kids, not any malcontented vets on the 2025 roster

 

[Hodge]

Who gives a f*** about the locker room? There's like 7 guys on this team that will still be here in 5 years and the hope is that Smith isn't just one of them but will also be one of our best players

Meritocracy is a myth, some players are more important than others purely on the basis of who they are, Smith's development is far more important of a priority than maximizing the effectiveness of our top PP unit this year, it's a better use of the season to give him premier deployment rather than the last 45 seconds of a powerplay after an opponent ices the puck so he can pass it to Luke Kunin in the slot

Our best and most important player is 18 years old, if Nico Sturm gets mad at the coaching staff because we're giving our rostered prospects "too much" ice time then he is free to explore his options in free agency, the locker room of the future is going to be built around these kids, not any malcontented vets on the 2025 roster

I agree that meritocracy is a myth, which is the entire reason Smith is in the lineup to begin with. He's probably not one of the 12 or even 14 best forwards in the org right now but he gets to play in the top six at his preferred position because A) we didn't pull him out of BC to play for the Barracuda and B) the difference between Smith and Kostin/Gushchin/G. Smith is small enough that it doesn't matter. Smith isn't taking a lineup spot away from a respected veteran.

But everyone in the room knows Granlund and Toffoli are established top line NHLers and our best PP options. Cutting their PP time, especially Granlund's in a contract year, in favor of Smith after two games where he hasn't done much could lead to bad blood. Yes, we are trying to develop Celebrini and Smith this season but we're also trying to rebuild the culture and to win games or at least keep them close. Warsofsky has the tough job of balancing all these different priorities.

Nobody is going to complain about Celebrini getting put out there on the top PP unit or in offensive situations because it's already blindingly obvious he's one of our 3 best players (at worst). Smith is not at that level and it's not fair to expect him to be two games into his career.

 

[weastern bias]

I agree that meritocracy is a myth, which is the entire reason Smith is in the lineup to begin with. He's probably not one of the 12 or even 14 best forwards in the org right now but he gets to play in the top six at his preferred position because A) we didn't pull him out of BC to play for the Barracuda and B) the difference between Smith and Kostin/Gushchin/G. Smith is small enough that it doesn't matter. Smith isn't taking a lineup spot away from a respected veteran.

But everyone in the room knows Granlund and Toffoli are established top line NHLers and our best PP options. Cutting their PP time, especially Granlund's in a contract year, in favor of Smith after two games where he hasn't done much could lead to bad blood. Yes, we are trying to develop Celebrini and Smith this season but we're also trying to rebuild the culture and to win games or at least keep them close. Warsofsky has the tough job of balancing all these different priorities.

Nobody is going to complain about Celebrini getting put out there on the top PP unit or in offensive situations because it's already blindingly obvious he's one of our 3 best players (at worst). Smith is not at that level and it's not fair to expect him to be two games into his career.

Again, I don't care about bad blood with Mikael Granlund or Tyler Toffoli, they won't be on the team in 2030, Will Smith will be and the plan should be to be a playoff team at that point with him as a focal point of the roster, his development matters so much more than placating to the whims of our transient veterans that it shouldn't even be a discussion, what those players want and need literally doesn't matter

 

[TheBeard]

Granlund is far and away our best PP player. I feel like this would just neuter both units.

This is a ridiculous way to run a NHL bench. You don't just bump your best offensive forward off PP1 "for development purposes." Maybe in March after you've sold at the trade deadline but not in Game #3.

What exactly are your expectations for the year?

 

[gaucholoco3]

I don’t like Smith on PP2 but there is no justification for him to be on PP1 over those 4 FWs. It is better when Eklund is on the PP2 with him. I do think they could go 5 FWs with Celebrini out and have Smith and Granlund on the points.

Last game it was really bad since the top unit played all 6 minutes of the PP time with stoppages during 2 and a third where they played the whole 2 minutes.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Celebrini is now week to week and isn’t on the road trip

 

[TheBeard]

I don’t like Smith on PP2 but there is no justification for him to be on PP1 over those 4 FWs. It is better when Eklund is on the PP2 with him. I do think they could go 5 FWs with Celebrini out and have Smith and Granlund on the points.

Last game it was really bad since the top unit played all 6 minutes of the PP time with stoppages during 2 and a third where they played the whole 2 minutes.

The justification is 2025, 2026, 2027-35…

Celebrini is now week to week and isn’t on the road trip

Between Logan and Mukh and now this, I think our entire medical staff are just witch doctors.

 

[tiburon12]

Celebrini is now week to week and isn’t on the road trip

that was expected, no?

 

[Skeksis25]

I thought Warso said right away he was considered week to week.

 

[TheBeard]

I thought Warso said right away he was considered week to week.

He did. War said he may be ready to play against Winnipeg but he’s gotta find his way there apparently.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Again, I don't care about bad blood with Mikael Granlund or Tyler Toffoli, they won't be on the team in 2030, Will Smith will be and the plan should be to be a playoff team at that point with him as a focal point of the roster, his development matters so much more than placating to the whims of our transient veterans that it shouldn't even be a discussion, what those players want and need literally doesn't matter

Granlund and Toffoli may not be part of the future playoff team, but they are very important pieces to transition us to that situation one day. That's why they need to be involved in most situations until Smith can take over (Celebrini is already there). I agree that Smith needs a chance in PP1, but he is in no hurry to be there yet. One game at a time.

Celebrini and Smith need a lot of support on and off the ice.

Celebrini is already the best forward in this team, but now being injured he needs all the off ice help. Can you imagine how it feels to be 18 year old superstar injured and getting support during the that time from real NHL players, veterans, staff, friends, family and fans every day. This is a big part of building Celebrini a feeling that San Jose will be his forever home.
Smith will need more time to develop, he needs to watch, listen and learn from players like Toffoli and Granlund with 10+ years of NHL experience to learn how to play like an NHL forward long term. He's got talent that could make him a top 10 player, but he needs to unlock those attributes one level at a time.

One day when Sharks are good with Celebrini and Smith, they will be talking about the importance of having veterans that helped them out when they started. As far as I know hockey is a game of inches and every little detail they can get from a more seasoned player can help these prospects.

 

[hohosaregood]

Smith is still pretty raw. I think he's probably better off facing the 2nd unit pk right now than face the top units. He didn't even start on BC's first PP unit for the first month or so. He'll be featuring on our top unit by the end of the year if he keeps improving like he has.