Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[sampler]

Btw, I also think we remain one or two dmen and one or two development years from being a pretty good team.

Celly and smith will be good likely well within five years, maybe just one or two. Musty might even step into the nhl this year. If Mukhamadullin looks like top 4, then he and dick make a nice backbone. Eklund and Zetterlund and likely to keep improving given their ages.

It’s very possible that one year from now in training camp 2025, the sharks are looking at legitimately 12-15 nhl level players 25 and younger.

Zetterlund, Eklund, smith, Celebrini, Thrun, mukh, dyllandrea, Dickinson, musty, Edstrom, bystedt, gushkin Bordeleau and maybe even cardwell. It’s not crazy and it excludes Halttunen or Chernyshov or pohlcamp and some other outside chances.

When you have that kind of youth depth, all you neee is a set of very good veterans and you can compete pretty damn soon.

 

[Shark Finn]

Does Grier really want a guy who's refusing to report to the AHL?

 

[matt trick]

If Askarov is willing to spend half the year in the AHL and an expectation of half in NHL (starting 25 games or so), I’m all in. Getting shelled on the post deadline sharks wouldn’t be great, but if he puts up 7-14-4 with 4-5 blowouts, I trust he’d be okay. If he wants to be in the NHL immediately, I’d be pretty worried about his development behind our squad. Post deadline with no Ceci, Rutta, Sturm, Kunin and Granlund would probably be rough as well.

Could be very good in the AHL as the Cuda have a squad. Askarov, Gushchin, Muk, and Carlsson were all All-Stars last year, Bords was the previous year, and they’re adding Polutarsky and Schuldt who are excellent AHL vets (as is Carlsson). Like to think that he’d come into the NHL with pretty high condfidence (so it wouldn’t be quite so devastated a few weeks later!). Maybe Cherny makes the AHL as well, so we’ve got four Russians together?

While the ideal time to acquire Askarov is likely next year (and an offer sheet could be a good way to force the issue), there may not be a better time to acquire an elite goalie prospect who fits our age better than almost anyone who may come available in the draft.

I thought elite goalies tend to take 5-7 years to make the NHL, however Rask, Price, Helleybuck, Oettinger, and Shesterkin did get serious minutes in 3-4 years. Fleury played 21 games in his d+1 season- that’s wild

 

[coooldude]

Once again FWIW, some preds fans aren't happy with Askarov's trajectory or attitude. I'm fine with low-balling with Bords and a 2nd, and waiting for the opportunity to offer sheet, but I'm not sure it's worth throwing a first rounder and a first round caliber prospect. One of Bystedt/Edstrom is the highest price I'd want to pay.

 

[weastern bias]

I wouldn't trade a 1st for a goalie prospect, no matter how highly touted

Goalies are so dependent on their environment in order to succeed that asking a 22 year old to step up for us might be a confidence killer, I'd gladly take Askarov but not for more than a 2nd+B prospect

We need to be hording 1st round picks, they can be traded but only for a sure thing, and no 22 year old goalie is a sure thing

I'm utterly fascinated by the Laine return. I suspected he would be treated as a cap dump but sheesh.

Kent Hughes bad

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Does Grier really want a guy who's refusing to report to the AHL?

He has no path to become the starter in Nashville. Saros is there for another 8 years, and they even signed Wedgewood to be the NHL backup. I think he would report to another teams AHL group as long as he could see the potential to be called up/be a starter in the near future.

Let's say he was traded to SJ for example, Blackwood and Vanecek will not both be here long term. There will be a spot as early as this some time this season.

 

[coooldude]

Kent Hughes bad

Don't tell that to the MTL fans on here -- they're convinced this was a coup!

 

[Zarzh]

9 of the top 10 vote-getters for Vezina this year are 28 or older. 2 of the last 3 SC winning goalies were in their mid-thirties. Askarov is 22. I assume in 4-5 years we'll be in our prime competitive years and Askarov will be 27. His timeline matches well with ours.

That's just a case of lying using statistics. Most from even last year are 30 or younger and most of the older finalists are out of the league or washed shortly after. May as well be arguing that Askarov will be a Hall of Famer.

Bob is a Hall of Famer, and Kuemper was carried by the team and washed the next year.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

That's just a case of lying using statistics. Most from even last year are 30 or younger and most of the older finalists are out of the league or washed shortly after. May as well be arguing that Askarov will be a Hall of Famer.

Bob is a Hall of Famer, and Kuemper was carried by the team and washed the next year.

What point are you trying to make? TheBeard said Askarov should match our timeline...which is completely true. These are just some of the current best goalies in the league and their age:
Saros: 29
Hellebuyck: 31
Demko: 28
Ullmark: 31
Bobrobsky: 35
Shesterkin: 28
Sorokin: 29
Vasilevskiey: 30

There is a few younger guys:
Swayman: 25
Oettinger: 25
Skinner: 25

But that also just shows how Askarov would be able to grow with our group over the next few years, given he's only 22.

 

[TheBeard]

That's just a case of lying using statistics. Most from even last year are 30 or younger and most of the older finalists are out of the league or washed shortly after. May as well be arguing that Askarov will be a Hall of Famer.

Bob is a Hall of Famer, and Kuemper was carried by the team and washed the next year.

Great. So by my reply and your reply it seems the sweet spot for goalies is the 28-30 range. So that would mean 6 years from now for Askarov which would be absolutely perfect for the trajectory of the team. Well done!

 

[weastern bias]

Don't tell that to the MTL fans on here -- they're convinced this was a coup!

I find him so consistently underwhelming

I know he's in a tough spot, he inherited some bad contracts in Anderson and Gallagher and unlike Grier he won the lottery from last place in a year without a great option at #1Overall, but he also inherited a 22 year old borderline 1C in Suzuki and a 21 year old pure goal scorer in Caufield, he has done so little to supplement them on defense it's shocking

And now he trades a decent depth defenseman for Patrick Laine, a player with zero utility outside of goal scoring when they badly need defense and goaltending? He's floundering

 

[Zarzh]

Great. So by my reply and your reply it seems the sweet spot for goalies is the 28-30 range. So that would mean 6 years from now for Askarov which would be absolutely perfect for the trajectory of the team. Well done!

28-30 is where most goalies start having injury issues, consistency issues, and overall decline and 24-28 is where most peak. Askarov is in a weird spot because he seems to be behind in his development and isn't that young and has done little to prove he'll have a late or extended prime.

 

[TheBeard]

has done little to prove he'll have a late or extended prime.

I don’t know how you can prove that at 22

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm okay with anything being on the table for Askarov outside of Celebrini, Eklund, Smith, and any 1st round picks we have.

 

[TheBeard]

he has done so little to supplement them on defense it's shocking

I think they have a fairly deep defensive prospect pool between Hutson and Mailloux and Reinbacher and Struble and Engstrom not to mention young talents already playing like Xhekaj and Guhle. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[Zarzh]

I don’t know how you can prove that at 22

He's an athletic goalie with weaker technical skills and hasn't been amazing at the AHL level. Why would he improve after his athletic peak?

 

[ChompChomp]

He has no path to become the starter in Nashville. Saros is there for another 8 years, and they even signed Wedgewood to be the NHL backup. I think he would report to another teams AHL group as long as he could see the potential to be called up/be a starter in the near future.

Let's say he was traded to SJ for example, Blackwood and Vanecek will not both be here long term. There will be a spot as early as this some time this season.

I think he would too (report to the Cuda). The Sharks literally do not have a goalie under contract for 25-26. All Grier has to do is tell him the expectation (not promise or guarantee) is that he's the #1 in the NHL going forward from 25-26 on. I suspect that's enough.

 

[TheBeard]

I think he would too (report to the Cuda). The Sharks literally do not have a goalie under contract for 25-26. All Grier has to do is tell him the expectation (not promise or guarantee) is that he's the #1 in the NHL going forward from 25-26 on. I suspect that's enough.

I'm not even sure that's what his gripe is. I'm not sure he even expects to be the number 1 at this point. I think he just wants an eventual path.

 

[weastern bias]

I think they have a fairly deep defensive prospect pool between Hutson and Mailloux and Reinbacher and Struble and Engstrom not to mention young talents already playing like Xhekaj and Guhle. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

It's a good prospect pool, but their 1C is 25 years old, they should be turning the corner by now and have real options on the roster now, not just for the future

It's not like where we are, Celebrini is 18, if we still have a sub-NHL caliber defense for him to play with in 7 years I'll be pissed

 

[TheBeard]

It's a good prospect pool, but their 1C is 25 years old, they should be turning the corner by now and have real options on the roster now, not just for the future

It's not like where we are, Celebrini is 18, if we still have a sub-NHL caliber defense for him to play with in 7 years I'll be pissed

The problem is when Montreal made the trade for Suzuki it was a completely different timeline. I honestly don't know if he's actually a core member of the team's future. Remember, they traded for him over 5 years ago.

 

[weastern bias]

The problem is when Montreal made the trade for Suzuki it was a completely different timeline. I honestly don't know if he's actually a core member of the team's future. Remember, they traded for him over 5 years ago.

If that's the case they should trade him for a haul right now, his value will never be higher, but I'm pretty sure they're trying to build around him

He's the captain and the only reliable and consistently available center on their roster, I don't think they see him as an expendable piece, but I'm not as immersed in their world as their fans would be so maybe they'd tell me I'm wrong

 

[TheBeard]

If that's the case they should trade him for a haul right now, his value will never be higher, but I'm pretty sure they're trying to build around him

He's the captain and the only reliable and consistently available center on their roster, I don't think they see him as an expendable piece, but I'm not as immersed in their world as their fans would be so maybe they'd tell me I'm wrong

They like him I'm sure. They wouldn't have locked him up for 8 years if they didn't, but when they acquired him it was a completely different time frame. One where the future was indeed now. Gallagher and Domi and Danault and KK and Lehkonen were all in their mid twenties and Price was still playing at an elite level. Josh Anderson was also there as was Toffoli, both in their primes. Things completely unraveled post cup final appearance faster than any franchise I've ever seen. They went from a young defense of Kulak, Romanov, Evans, Edmunson mixed with solid vets like Petry and Weber to Chris Wiseman and David Savard in less than a year. Maybe it was all smoke and mirrors, but the core was definitely at a place where they were competing.

I agree they should be looking to move him, but I don't know how many teams are going to sacrifice so much for a guy with another 7 years at nearly 8 million who's never had a PPG season no matter how good he is.

 

[weastern bias]

They like him I'm sure. They wouldn't have locked him up for 8 years if they didn't, but when they acquired him it was a completely different time frame. One where the future was indeed now. Gallagher and Domi and Danault and KK and Lehkonen were all in their mid twenties and Price was still playing at an elite level. Josh Anderson was also there as was Toffoli, both in their primes. Things completely unraveled post cup final appearance faster than any franchise I've ever seen. They went from a young defense of Kulak, Romanov, Evans, Edmunson mixed with solid vets like Petry and Weber to Chris Wiseman and David Savard in less than a year. Maybe it was all smoke and mirrors, but the core was definitely at a place where they were competing.

I agree they should be looking to move him, but I don't know how many teams are going to sacrifice so much for a guy with another 7 years at nearly 8 million who's never had a PPG season no matter how good he is.

The finals run was definitely smoke and mirrors, they played at an 86 point pace in the terrible all Canadian North Divison that year, they wouldn't have made the playoffs under typical league circumstances

I think Suzuki would fetch them a huge haul if he was shopped, a cost controlled 25 year old two way center locked up long term? I just don't think they look at him as a trade chip, he's one of their cornerstones, hence why I think they should be further along in surrounding him with talent, instead they're continuing to draft top-5 every year and his contract only runs 4 more seasons, they're gonna lose the benefit of his team friendly deal well before they're competing at this rate

 

[TheBeard]

The finals run was definitely smoke and mirrors, they played at an 86 point pace in the terrible all Canadian North Divison that year, they wouldn't have made the playoffs under typical league circumstances

I think Suzuki would fetch them a huge haul if he was shopped, a cost controlled 25 year old two way center locked up long term? I just don't think they look at him as a trade chip, he's one of their cornerstones, hence why I think they should be further along in surrounding him with talent, instead they're continuing to draft top-5 every year and his contract only runs 4 more seasons, they're gonna lose the benefit of his team friendly deal well before they're competing at this rate

I believe they only drafted top 5 3 times, which seems like a standard time before you see improvement. I'd be shocked if this team drafted there again this upcoming season. I also wouldn't be shocked if they made the playoffs. That top 6 is lethal.

 

[weastern bias]

I believe they only drafted top 5 3 times, which seems like a standard time before you see improvement. I'd be shocked if this team drafted there again this upcoming season. I also wouldn't be shocked if they made the playoffs. That top 6 is lethal.

Their defense sucks though, and they play in a very competitive division, I don't see an avenue towards making the playoff for them this year