Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Juxtaposer]

For sure, it's exciting. But also -- why didn't Nashville foresee this? It's not like Trotz is an idiot, and they've been excellent at developing goalies. As someone on the main boards thread said, "what does Trotz know that we don't?"

I'm only saying that there is risk enough with this player, and a long enough runway until we're competitive, that I'm not sure it's worth a lot of assets.

IMO what Trotz knows is that Jusse Saros is an elite goaltender and he chose him over Askarov, simple as that. Saros wouldn't have returned much via trade relative to his value given his pending UFA status and Askarov isn't ready to be an NHL starting goaltender, especially with a team that is trying to contend right now. So they kinda had to keep Saros and losing Askarov is the consequence.

I also kinda get the vibe that Trotz doesn't care for Poile's picks the way Grier doesn't care for Wilson's. I don't think Trotz using Askarov as a trade chip reflects poorly on either; Askarov is the top prospect on a team with contending aspirations, of course he's in trade speculation.

I also feel like this is going to drag on for a while. Trotz seems like he'd be willing to let Askarov sit the season rather than give him up for pennies on the dollar. I also think this "I won't report to camp" business is a bluff from Askarov, personally.

 

[Alaskanice]

Quite a bit of buzz going in about Askarov to San Jose. Personally, I’d love to have a legitimate goalie prospect. We’ve rarely, if at all, have had one. I’m feeling he’s going to be in real very soon.

 

[Hangemhigh]

I don't highly value goalie prospects. So Granlund and Bordleau is my highest.

 

[STL Shark]

For sure, it's exciting. But also -- why didn't Nashville foresee this? It's not like Trotz is an idiot, and they've been excellent at developing goalies. As someone on the main boards thread said, "what does Trotz know that we don't?"

I'm only saying that there is risk enough with this player, and a long enough runway until we're competitive, that I'm not sure it's worth a lot of assets.

There isn't anything about an organization under prior management developing something well and evaluating it well that really correlates to Trotz and the new management/front office being able to do the same. We know Trotz the coach, but know minimal about Trotz the GM and his decision making and evaluation in that role.

Won't back up the truck to hand over a ton of assets for him, but I also see value in getting him at the right price and think he's likely to be a good NHL starter in the next couple years. Question for me is whether he will be elite or just a guy. Trading a Bystedt/Edstrom as late 1st rounders is about the price that Ullmark, Schneider, etc. have gotten except Askarov is younger and cheaper.

 

[Star Platinum]

Quite a bit of buzz going in about Askarov to San Jose. Personally, I’d love to have a legitimate goalie prospect. We’ve rarely, if at all, have had one. I’m feeling he’s going to be in real very soon.

If I was going to create a bad metaphor about building a hockey team (which I'm obviously about to do), building a hockey team is like baking a cake and you can't frost the cake before the cake has been baked. To me, goalies are frosting - you need them or you're going to have a very bland/crappy tasting cake, but if you try to frost the cake before it's done baking, you're gonna end up with a mess.

It would be nice to have a more promising goalie in the system, but Askarov is ready to start playing in the NHL and I don't think the Sharks have a good environment for a goalie to develop in. If the price isn't too steep, go for it, but I wouldn't give up an asset I really valued to put a young goalie in a bad situation. Just feels to me like the timelines don't quite match up.

There will always be an opportunity to upgrade the goalie situation when the time is right and there are probably opportunities right now to get a more solid veteran in net right now for less cost if we want to.

 

[mogambomoroo]

If the price is good for the Sharks then okay, but if we give a top prospect I hate it. If it's a Bystedt, Bordeleau or Gusch I'm fine. I'm actually quite high on Edström becoming one of the best 3C's in NHL.

 

[Alaskanice]

If I was going to create a bad metaphor about building a hockey team (which I'm obviously about to do), building a hockey team is like baking a cake and you can't frost the cake before the cake has been baked. To me, goalies are frosting - you need them or you're going to have a very bland/crappy tasting cake, but if you try to frost the cake before it's done baking, you're gonna end up with a mess.

It would be nice to have a more promising goalie in the system, but Askarov is ready to start playing in the NHL and I don't think the Sharks have a good environment for a goalie to develop in. If the price isn't too steep, go for it, but I wouldn't give up an asset I really valued to put a young goalie in a bad situation. Just feels to me like the timelines don't quite match up.

There will always be an opportunity to upgrade the goalie situation when the time is right and there are probably opportunities right now to get a more solid veteran in net right now for less cost if we want to.

I know goalies are voodoo. If he’s the best player available, you do it. I think if we had drafted him, we’d all accept that.
There wouldn’t be the analogy of a cake. It’d be of a young team growing together.

 

[Zarzh]

Sorry, what exactly is your point? Who are we losing that's "hard to play against" exactly?

The idea that having Bystedt and Edstrom is somehow unneeded as if having a good 3rd line is somehow a bad thing.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The idea that having Bystedt and Edstrom is somehow unneeded as if having a good 3rd line is somehow a bad thing.

Neither of those guys is "hard to play against". Neither of those guys are guarantees to be third liners. And we have a dozen prospects who have legit shots at middle-six. One of them is expendable for the right player. Pretty simple.

 

[TheBeard]

We should have done Ceci for Laine and a 2nd lol.

If the price is good for the Sharks then okay, but if we give a top prospect I hate it. If it's a Bystedt, Bordeleau or Gusch I'm fine. I'm actually quite high on Edström becoming one of the best 3C's in NHL.

Edstrom may be, but IMO the potential of a top goalie may be a bigger priority than a top 3c.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm utterly fascinated by the Laine return. I suspected he would be treated as a cap dump but sheesh.

 

[matt trick]

For what it's worth, Elite Prospects had Askarov above Wallstedt, Wolf, and Cossa as the top goalie prospect in the league. In the Pred's team rankings 80% had him as their top prospect. Goalies are voodoo, and our situation sucks. Wish we could trade him, sign him to a significant contract as a starter/1A starting next year, and loan him to Nashville to keep learning under Korn.

Best case scenario might be this drags out, he reports, but then around midyear the situation reaches rock bottom, and we get him for our 2nd+Bords.

 

[Patty Ice]

loan him to Nashville to keep learning under Korn.

This is why Trotz is so cavalier about the whole situation. He has Saros for awhile to man the net and let Korn develop his next crop.

But here in SJ, he would have Nabokov and Miller, two of the premier hybrid goalies of the 00s, in his ear as well as Speer who has been a nice pickup.

 

[ChompChomp]

Regardless of what we think, I suspect Big Money Mike is talking to Trotz about Askarov. Probably not the only GM, but one of a few that makes sense as an Askarov trading partner. They also consummated a trade this summer--one that helped Trotz get something for a player departing to the K, even if it is just AHL fodder in Ozzy--so they are on good terms re: talking trades, if that matters.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm utterly fascinated by the Laine return. I suspected he would be treated as a cap dump but sheesh.

I feel bad he's going to another cold market where the media has a harsh reputation. Can't this guy catch a break?

 

[Mattb124]

For sure, it's exciting. But also -- why didn't Nashville foresee this? It's not like Trotz is an idiot, and they've been excellent at developing goalies. As someone on the main boards thread said, "what does Trotz know that we don't?"

I'm only saying that there is risk enough with this player, and a long enough runway until we're competitive, that I'm not sure it's worth a lot of assets.

Could very well just be the perceived timing of their window, Askarov wasn’t seen as they guy (too young/unproven) and they had their hand forced to extend an excellent goaltender in Saros?

Edit: posted, hit the next page, and saw Jux already posted essentially this.

 

[Bizz]

I would have taken on Laine for 2 years if it got us a 2nd. But I forgot Mike Grier doesn't make "good" trades.

 

[sampler]

I would have taken on Laine for 2 years if it got us a 2nd. But I forgot Mike Grier doesn't make "good" trades.

If laine was a ufa after this season, then yes. But he still costs 8.7m next year too. Obviously, if he returns to form it’s a good deal but if not, you have another 8.4m of dead money to go with pickles and cooch.

I think summer 2025 may be the green light summer for Grier to start building a real team. That’s why the EK deal had virtual cap wash last year and this year, but saves 10m per be t summer and the one after.

I would be very surprised to see Grier add anyone who doesn’t fit long term or can be easily flipped.

If laine struggles, he’ll be an expensive anchor and you can’t sell him as a rental either.

And 2nd round picks aren’t all that valuable for 8.4m is potential dead space.

Hard pass on that one.

 

[Bizz]

If laine was a ufa after this season, then yes. But he still costs 8.7m next year too. Obviously, if he returns to form it’s a good deal but if not, you have another 8.4m of dead money to go with pickles and cooch.

I think summer 2025 may be the green light summer for Grier to start building a real team. That’s why the EK deal had virtual cap wash last year and this year, but saves 10m per be t summer and the one after.

I would be very surprised to see Grier add anyone who doesn’t fit long term or can be easily flipped.

If laine struggles, he’ll be an expensive anchor and you can’t sell him as a rental either.

And 2nd round picks aren’t all that valuable for 8.4m is potential dead space.

Hard pass on that one.

Yeah we're at a point in our rebuild where if he busts out, especially in year 2, that gets us that much closer to McKenna, and if we wind up with him, makes Will Smith expendable for a Defenseman or whoever we need.

If he thrives we can get ourselves a haul for him at the trade deadline or extend him and keep him around until Chernyshov is ready.

besides, I would have loved using this picture the next 2 years:

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even a productive Laine is not good enough to overcome the terrible example he sets in the room.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I would gladly pay more than a 2nd for Askarov but it’s hard for Nashville to ask for more. Otherwise the Sharks or another team can offer sheet him at the same as the Broberg deal and there is no way that Nashville can match that.

It’s not like the Sharks really need him this season.

 

[Zarzh]

For sure, it's exciting. But also -- why didn't Nashville foresee this? It's not like Trotz is an idiot, and they've been excellent at developing goalies. As someone on the main boards thread said, "what does Trotz know that we don't?"

I'm only saying that there is risk enough with this player, and a long enough runway until we're competitive, that I'm not sure it's worth a lot of assets.

Well it's both indicative of Askarov and Saros. Trotz wants to go all in now, yes that's part of it, but his window is shorter than most expect.

Askarov is not that young, is an athletic goalie, and hasn't been great in the AHL. Most goalies (especially athletic goalies) see a decline in their late 20s/early 30s and quite a few good starters are outright done by then. There's lots of reasons to be pessimistic on him.

 

[TheBeard]

Well it's both indicative of Askarov and Saros. Trotz wants to go all in now, yes that's part of it, but his window is shorter than most expect.

Askarov is not that young, is an athletic goalie, and hasn't been great in the AHL. Most goalies (especially athletic goalies) see a decline in their late 20s/early 30s and quite a few good starters are outright done by then. There's lots of reasons to be pessimistic on him.

9 of the top 10 vote-getters for Vezina this year are 28 or older. 2 of the last 3 SC winning goalies were in their mid-thirties. Askarov is 22. I assume in 4-5 years we'll be in our prime competitive years and Askarov will be 27. His timeline matches well with ours.

 

[sampler]

I like the idea of getting Askarov and I’d be willing to pay well for him.

I think the window to begin competiting is much closer. I know many on this boat think we are still five years away but I don’t think so. I really think a good development year this year for prospects at every level (nhl, ahl, jrs, ncaa, shl) and we will be ready much soon. I think summer 2025 and 2026 is the quality get acquisition window and either 25-26 or 26-27 will see the sharks be respectable.

The goaltending is the only position wheee the sharks have nothing. I would love to get a top prospect there. 22 years old is a perfect age. If he plays well, the G is set for a decade.

I’m not sure what I’d give up, but I would be open to vgk first rounder and bystedt or Edstrom. I don’t think I’d go further than the equivalent of two late firsts but I would feel a whole lot better if we had a real goalie for 25-26 and beyond.

Of course, goalies are goalies and aside from a few perennial greats, they come and go. Still….

The shakes have such a glut of nhl quality forward prospects that I’m ok leveraging that farm strength to get every position secured.

 

[TheBeard]

I like the idea of getting Askarov and I’d be willing to pay well for him.

I think the window to begin competiting is much closer. I know many on this boat think we are still five years away but I don’t think so. I really think a good development year this year for prospects at every level (nhl, ahl, jrs, ncaa, shl) and we will be ready much soon. I think summer 2025 and 2026 is the quality get acquisition window and either 25-26 or 26-27 will see the sharks be respectable.

The goaltending is the only position wheee the sharks have nothing. I would love to get a top prospect there. 22 years old is a perfect age. If he plays well, the G is set for a decade.

I’m not sure what I’d give up, but I would be open to vgk first rounder and bystedt or Edstrom. I don’t think I’d go further than the equivalent of two late firsts but I would feel a whole lot better if we had a real goalie for 25-26 and beyond.

Of course, goalies are goalies and aside from a few perennial greats, they come and go. Still….

The shakes have such a glut of nhl quality forward prospects that I’m ok leveraging that farm strength to get every position secured.

Devils refused to budge from this same stance and lost a whole year of a team primed to take a run because their goalies couldn't stop a beachball.