Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

I personally don’t think Kuzmenko is a cap dump. Again guy had 74 points last year. He was off to a good start too but then got benched because he wasn’t physical enough. If you ask Vancouver fans about Kuzmenko they will tell you he should not have been benched.

My reading on Kuzmenko has been that he is basically a better Labanc that makes quicker decisions (although that’s not a perfect comparison) which would be a top 6 player in most teams.

Again Brz is leading the OHL in points scored by a dman in his D+1. The first is obviously a plus. Who cares where it is because it would have been the same no matter what.

Yes Lindholm is valuable but it’s very weird to me that you think giving up a first, a B+ prospect in a position that is massively valued throughout the league, and a guy who scored 74 points last year is some shit package.

Obviously the HF trade forum isn't real life but there were Avs fans offering their 1st + Cal Ritchie for Lindholm. No idea if that was ever on the table but that's a realistic bar the Flames should have been shooting for.

Team USA literally picked Eric Pohlkamp over Brz for the WJC team. This was after Brz's offensive explosion too. Is Pohlkamp a good prospect? Sure maybe the execs selecting the gold medal winning team were wrong but that's not a sign that Brz is highly valued around the industry.

 

[Gecklund]

Obviously the HF trade forum isn't real life but there were Avs fans offering their 1st + Cal Ritchie for Lindholm. No idea if that was ever on the table but that's a realistic bar the Flames should have been shooting for.

Team USA literally picked Eric Pohlkamp over Brz for the WJC team. This was after Brz's offensive explosion too. Is Pohlkamp a good prospect? Sure maybe the execs selecting the gold medal winning team were wrong but that's not a sign that Brz is highly valued around the industry.

Mobile sucks but I just edited my post to include a few more thoughts before I saw you responded:

I guess I just thought of a better comparison from SJ for how I value that package. It’s the Timo package minus all the extra stuff. It’s a late first (Musty), a good complimentary winger (Zetterlund/Kuzmenko), and a very good D prospect (Shakir/Brz). Yes it’s missing Okhotiuk who is a good piece himself and the extra pick but also Timo was an RFA. Which it is only kind of missing the extra pick. It got downgraded a round or 2 (2nd vs 3rd/4th again conference finals success condition). This might be the homer in me but I think I’d take Timo everyday over Lindholm.

I’ll be honest I hate Ritchie so I don’t really see that package as similar. Avs also couldn’t offer that cause cap. Yes they have a bunch of guys on LTIR but they’ll mostly be back for the playoffs it sounds like. You also had VAN fans offering Lekkerimaki+1st for Lindholm so like you said only so much stock you can put in that.

The argument with Pohlkamp vs Brz is pretty disingenuous. Brz is an offensive dman. Pohlkamp is a defensive Dman. Brz was more competing with the likes of Hutson and Casey who are both a couple more examples of guys who were picked later and have blown their draft position out of the water in their D+1. Granted I do like both of them more than Brz.

I think a lot of this comes down to who value Lindholm and Kuzmenko much differently. Yes I value Lindholm more than Kuzmenko but basically I’d offer one of Brz or a first with Kuzmenko and the rest for Lindholm. I wouldn’t do both.

Another thing that you said before that I agree with is that VAN is riding pretty high PDO (basically they’re lucky as hell). It’s pretty unsustainable and VGK is the only team that has had success with high PDO in recent memory. If I was VAN I don’t think I would have moved 2 firsts in 2 years with the prospect pool they currently have. I don’t think their window is now but at the same time it’s the closest thing to a window with Pettersson’s future up in the air right now. Obviously if they get to the third round or finals this is all moot but oh well it’s more fun to talk hockey than not!

 

[landshark]

Putting this here since there's commonly discussion about free agents not wanting to sign here... Usually it's taxes and stuff like that, but not even one vote?!

EDIT:
Oh damn, some asshat took a potshot at US:

Perhaps the Sharks should have a give away for the fans:

 

[landshark]

I think I'm particularly pissed about this because I don't think some entitled athlete getting rich from playing a game should have any room to criticize the fans that allow for the league to exist in the first place.

 

[coooldude]

I think I'm particularly pissed about this because I don't think some entitled athlete getting rich from playing a game should have any room to criticize the fans that allow for the league to exist in the first place.

Also obviously not veteran enough to have experienced the tank at peak.

 

[NWSharkie]

Also obviously not veteran enough to have experienced the tank at peak.

Conversely, could be a player who does remember the tank at peak and gets bummed out at seeing it now. 1.69% of 177 votes is what, two guys? Could be that Pavs and Dilly hate seeing what happened to their old digs

 

[landshark]

Also obviously not veteran enough to have experienced the tank at peak.

Doesn't matter to me. Could be a rookie, could be Pavs. Players shouldn't ever say anything bad about a fan base.

 

[one2gamble]

Doesn't matter to me. Could be a rookie, could be Pavs. Players shouldn't ever say anything bad about a fan base.

I dont agree. They are allowed to have an opinion.

 

[landshark]

I dont agree. They are allowed to have an opinion.

They're allowed to have it, but voicing that opinion is not going to get them anything but angst and ire. Bad for all involved.

 

[TheBeard]

Also obviously not veteran enough to have experienced the tank at peak.

Probably a knights player.

 

[Hodge]

Mobile sucks but I just edited my post to include a few more thoughts before I saw you responded:

I guess I just thought of a better comparison from SJ for how I value that package. It’s the Timo package minus all the extra stuff. It’s a late first (Musty), a good complimentary winger (Zetterlund/Kuzmenko), and a very good D prospect (Shakir/Brz). Yes it’s missing Okhotiuk who is a good piece himself and the extra pick but also Timo was an RFA. Which it is only kind of missing the extra pick. It got downgraded a round or 2 (2nd vs 3rd/4th again conference finals success condition). This might be the homer in me but I think I’d take Timo everyday over Lindholm.

I’ll be honest I hate Ritchie so I don’t really see that package as similar. Avs also couldn’t offer that cause cap. Yes they have a bunch of guys on LTIR but they’ll mostly be back for the playoffs it sounds like. You also had VAN fans offering Lekkerimaki+1st for Lindholm so like you said only so much stock you can put in that.

The argument with Pohlkamp vs Brz is pretty disingenuous. Brz is an offensive dman. Pohlkamp is a defensive Dman. Brz was more competing with the likes of Hutson and Casey who are both a couple more examples of guys who were picked later and have blown their draft position out of the water in their D+1. Granted I do like both of them more than Brz.

I think a lot of this comes down to who value Lindholm and Kuzmenko much differently. Yes I value Lindholm more than Kuzmenko but basically I’d offer one of Brz or a first with Kuzmenko and the rest for Lindholm. I wouldn’t do both.

Another thing that you said before that I agree with is that VAN is riding pretty high PDO (basically they’re lucky as hell). It’s pretty unsustainable and VGK is the only team that has had success with high PDO in recent memory. If I was VAN I don’t think I would have moved 2 firsts in 2 years with the prospect pool they currently have. I don’t think their window is now but at the same time it’s the closest thing to a window with Pettersson’s future up in the air right now. Obviously if they get to the third round or finals this is all moot but oh well it’s more fun to talk hockey than not!

I think this trade proved Kuzmenko currently has zero or negative value. This is a guy with no NHL track record to speak of who came out of nowhere to score 39 goals on an insane 27% shooting percentage. He scored on almost 1 in 3 shots last year which some of the greatest finishers in league history never managed in a single season. It was one of the luckiest individual shooting seasons of all time and everyone has seen who Kuzmenko is without a horseshoe up his ass: a regular healthy scratch who doesn't help you in any aspect of the game.

The reason I don't value Brzustewicz much is that he's probably the most volatile type of player/prospect, the undersized offensive defenseman. We've seen a lot of guys who fit that description and have put up big numbers in the CHL of late like Adam Boqvist, Ty Smith, obviously Merkley, completely fizzle out at the next level. If you don't have or can't develop those elite edges that Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar have or that one separating skill that some of the best defensemen in the league have it can be really tough to make it no matter how good you are as a distributor or PPQB or whatever. Most likely Brz ends up as a great AAAA guy or maybe a third pairing PP specialist. In a world where you can sign Erik Gustafsson for 800k on July 1st that just has no value to me.

 

[Gecklund]

I think this trade proved Kuzmenko currently has zero or negative value. This is a guy with no NHL track record to speak of who came out of nowhere to score 39 goals on an insane 27% shooting percentage. He scored on almost 1 in 3 shots last year which some of the greatest finishers in league history never managed in a single season. It was one of the luckiest individual shooting seasons of all time and everyone has seen who Kuzmenko is without a horseshoe up his ass: a regular healthy scratch who doesn't help you in any aspect of the game.

The reason I don't value Brzustewicz much is that he's probably the most volatile type of player/prospect, the undersized offensive defenseman. We've seen a lot of guys who fit that description and have put up big numbers in the CHL of late like Adam Boqvist, Ty Smith, obviously Merkley, completely fizzle out at the next level. If you don't have or can't develop those elite edges that Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar have or that one separating skill that some of the best defensemen in the league have it can be really tough to make it no matter how good you are as a distributor or PPQB or whatever. Most likely Brz ends up as a great AAAA guy or maybe a third pairing PP specialist. In a world where you can sign Erik Gustafsson for 800k on July 1st that just has no value to me.

I think these are all valid points that we just don’t agree on.

Kuzmenko I think is a bit better than you’re giving him credit for but at the same time, he has a bit of Labanc in him which I hate so it might just be one of those he’s not on my team so I see more of the positive.

Brz isn’t that small at 6 foot, 190 but I definitely see where you’re coming from on that. I’m definitely a bit higher on him. He plays a bit more of a cerebral game from what I’ve seen. He reminds me of Fox offensively (not defensively though).

 

[Mafoofoo]

I think I'm particularly pissed about this because I don't think some entitled athlete getting rich from playing a game should have any room to criticize the fans that allow for the league to exist in the first place.

Who cares what the average nhler thinks about the fanbase? Most of them have the emotional/general intelligence of a potato

 

[Mattb124]

Putting this here since there's commonly discussion about free agents not wanting to sign here... Usually it's taxes and stuff like that, but not even one vote?!

View attachment 813597
EDIT:
Oh damn, some asshat took a potshot at US:
View attachment 813599
View attachment 813601
Perhaps the Sharks should have a give away for the fans:
View attachment 813602

Downtown SJ is a pit and, other than nice winter weather, there really isn’t much for a visiting player to get excited about.

 

[Hobocop]

Putting this here since there's commonly discussion about free agents not wanting to sign here... Usually it's taxes and stuff like that, but not even one vote?!

View attachment 813597
EDIT:
Oh damn, some asshat took a potshot at US:
View attachment 813599
View attachment 813601
Perhaps the Sharks should have a give away for the fans:
View attachment 813602

I dunno, if you asked me what my five favorite cities with NHL teams to visit are, I think they'd be the same as the ones that got top 5 from the players. If you just dropped me in San Jose for one or two days, I don't know that there's that much I'd be excited about compared to those places.

Also, 1.69% of the people surveyed for "least favorite road city" would be three guys.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I dunno, if you asked me what my five favorite cities with NHL teams to visit are, I think they'd be the same as the ones that got top 5 from the players. If you just dropped me in San Jose for one or two days, I don't know that there's that much I'd be excited about compared to those places.

Also, 1.69% of the people surveyed for "least favorite road city" would be three guys.

Exactly this. SJ/the Bay Area is a great place to spend a week so you can go up to Napa, go to the beach, spend time in SF, hike; whatever. It’s a crap place if you’re just in SJ for a day and realistically all you’re doing outside the rink and your hotel room is grabbing a meal and maybe a couple drinks.

The “desirable” city list is just 1) Canadian cities where players are from and 2) upscale party cities.

As far as the Tank goes, I don’t think anyone should be shocked that it’s not the highest-energy atmosphere right now. Not only is the on-ice product pretty bad, but SJ is not that close to the rest of the Bay—if I didn’t live two hours away from SJ, I’d totally go to games. Alas.

 

[Gecklund]

Exactly this. SJ/the Bay Area is a great place to spend a week so you can go up to Napa, go to the beach, spend time in SF, hike; whatever. It’s a crap place if you’re just in SJ for a day and realistically all you’re doing outside the rink and your hotel room is grabbing a meal and maybe a couple drinks.

The “desirable” city list is just 1) Canadian cities where players are from and 2) upscale party cities.

As far as the Tank goes, I don’t think anyone should be shocked that it’s not the highest-energy atmosphere right now. Not only is the on-ice product pretty bad, but SJ is not that close to the rest of the Bay—if I didn’t live two hours away from SJ, I’d totally go to games. Alas.

Yeah I’m kind in the same boat a couple hours away from SJ. I try to make a game a year. This year we did a day of hockey (sharks in the morning, cuda at night) which I highly recommend.

The reason why we did that originally though is because we had no idea what to do. San Pedro Square is a fun place to have a meal but not much. Santana Row is fine.

 

[hohosaregood]

It's more the reason provided is kinda goofy. "The fans are shit lol". It's not even a complaint about the city. If they said the highlight of downtown was a poop snake statue, I'd buy it.

 

[Hodge]

It's more the reason provided is kinda goofy. "The fans are shit lol". It's not even a complaint about the city. If they said the highlight of downtown was a poop snake statue, I'd buy it.

To be clear there’s no quote attributed to a player saying this. It’s just some dumbass Athletic writer paraphrasing

 

[STL Shark]

It's more the reason provided is kinda goofy. "The fans are shit lol". It's not even a complaint about the city. If they said the highlight of downtown was a poop snake statue, I'd buy it.

Atmosphere matters as an athlete. Having to create all the energy in a building versus having a lively crowd that's hostile and making it fun to play matters a ton. The Tank has been a morgue for almost 5 years now. Lifeless and no energy because the team sucks. Not shocking that players don't get excited to come play in SJ in a game that nobody wants to play/be at.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Maybe the player meant we were sad like, the emotion. Which, if I'm being honest with myself...

 

[Juxtaposer]

We are sad though. Like, I’m sad.

 

[OrrNumber4]

To be clear there’s no quote attributed to a player saying this. It’s just some dumbass Athletic writer paraphrasing

Of course, no journalist would stretch what a player said in order to attract attention and clicks!

 

[Groo]

Mobile sucks but I just edited my post to include a few more thoughts before I saw you responded:

I guess I just thought of a better comparison from SJ for how I value that package. It’s the Timo package minus all the extra stuff. It’s a late first (Musty), a good complimentary winger (Zetterlund/Kuzmenko), and a very good D prospect (Shakir/Brz). Yes it’s missing Okhotiuk who is a good piece himself and the extra pick but also Timo was an RFA. Which it is only kind of missing the extra pick. It got downgraded a round or 2 (2nd vs 3rd/4th again conference finals success condition). This might be the homer in me but I think I’d take Timo everyday over Lindholm.

I’ll be honest I hate Ritchie so I don’t really see that package as similar. Avs also couldn’t offer that cause cap. Yes they have a bunch of guys on LTIR but they’ll mostly be back for the playoffs it sounds like. You also had VAN fans offering Lekkerimaki+1st for Lindholm so like you said only so much stock you can put in that.

The argument with Pohlkamp vs Brz is pretty disingenuous. Brz is an offensive dman. Pohlkamp is a defensive Dman. Brz was more competing with the likes of Hutson and Casey who are both a couple more examples of guys who were picked later and have blown their draft position out of the water in their D+1. Granted I do like both of them more than Brz.

I think a lot of this comes down to who value Lindholm and Kuzmenko much differently. Yes I value Lindholm more than Kuzmenko but basically I’d offer one of Brz or a first with Kuzmenko and the rest for Lindholm. I wouldn’t do both.

Another thing that you said before that I agree with is that VAN is riding pretty high PDO (basically they’re lucky as hell). It’s pretty unsustainable and VGK is the only team that has had success with high PDO in recent memory. If I was VAN I don’t think I would have moved 2 firsts in 2 years with the prospect pool they currently have. I don’t think their window is now but at the same time it’s the closest thing to a window with Pettersson’s future up in the air right now. Obviously if they get to the third round or finals this is all moot but oh well it’s more fun to talk hockey than not!

You hate C. Ritchie? Why?
I'd love to have him in the Sharks organization

 

[Jargon]

So… do we keep Eklund at C?