Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[OrrNumber4]

Ferraro, Duclair, Labanc

Duclair for a mid-round pick seems likely. Ferraro, if the Sharks want to trade him, should be able to get a first-round pick + a decent asset.

Labanc is a candidate to sign a prove-it deal (with another team, of course) in the offseason and blossom. I imagine teams see him as a costlier, more one-dimensional version of Alexander Barabanov.

If there's no market for Barabanov, it might make sense for the Sharks to sign him for another year.

 

[tiburon12]

Duclair for a mid-round pick seems likely. Ferraro, if the Sharks want to trade him, should be able to get a first-round pick + a decent asset.

Labanc is a candidate to sign a prove-it deal (with another team, of course) in the offseason and blossom. I imagine teams see him as a costlier, more one-dimensional version of Alexander Barabanov.

If there's no market for Barabanov, it might make sense for the Sharks to sign him for another year.

If the Pens ship out Guentzel i can see them bringing in Barabanov (and probably another piece too, probably not from SJ). I think his and Crosby's style would match and of course he was already great with Karl

 

[hohosaregood]

SJHN Daily: Hertl To Talk His Sharks’ Future With Grier in Off-Season

Will Tomas Hertl ride out the rebuild with the San Jose Sharks? It sounds like a discussion that he will have this off-season with GM Mike Grier. “It’s not an easy situation, where we are. We know that,” Hertl told the Mercury News. “We will see. It’s probably not [time to] talk now, but...

sanjosehockeynow.com

New idea. Hertl for Jiricek before Columbus clears house over the summer. Would be a pretty good fit with Fantilli, Gaudreau, Voronkov, etc.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Since the first lockout, here are the teams (OTTOMH) that didn't have a Norris-quality d-man on their team:

1996 Avalanche (Ozolinsh/Foote)
2004 Lightning (Boyle)
2006 Hurricanes (F. Kaberle)
2009 (barely, with Gonchar/Letang) and 2017 Penguins (Schultz)
2019 Blues (Pietrangelo, again borderline)
2023 VGK (Pietrangelo)

The Avalanche had Roy, Forsberg, and Sakic
The Lightning had Khabibulin, St. Louis, and Richards
The Hurricanes had Eric Staal and Cam Ward
The Penguins had Crosby, Malkin, arguably Gonchar, and later Kessel
The Blues had O'Reilly
The VGK had Stone, Eichel, and, arguably, Adin Hill given his performance in the playoffs and this year.

You can go back even further, and since WW2, only the 73-75 Flyers and the 1993 Canadiens don't have a Norris-quality defenseman.

So if you want to win without a Norris-quality defenseman, you better have superstars elsewhere.

O’Reilly, superstar? No and neither was Cam Ward. I wouldn’t confuse a hot run with being a “superstar”. I know it doesn’t fit the whole “magic formula for winning a cup” theme but sometimes decent or good players just get hot at the right time.

 

[coooldude]

O’Reilly, superstar? No and neither was Cam Ward. I wouldn’t confuse a hot run with being a “superstar”. I know it doesn’t fit the whole “magic formula for winning a cup” theme but sometimes decent or good players just get hot at the right time.

The blues had: Tarasenko (16OA), Pietrangelo (4OA), Bouwmeester (3OA), and to a lesser extent, Perron (late first) and O'Reilly (33OA), plus Parayko. So they still had top 5 pick talent, and yet they are an outlier for not being like the other teams who consistently contend and win in the cap era with even more top 5 talent.

There is no magic formula for building a contender, but the contenders all have a lot of home grown top 5-10 picks that hit, and then they add pieces. Full rebuilds in the cap era have about a 50% chance of success, and the other 50% is pretty ugly. Halfway there rebuilds like the blues have a lot lower rate of success.

 

[OrrNumber4]

O’Reilly, superstar? No and neither was Cam Ward. I wouldn’t confuse a hot run with being a “superstar”. I know it doesn’t fit the whole “magic formula for winning a cup” theme but sometimes decent or good players just get hot at the right time.

If I grant your analysis of O'Reilly and Ward, that means that four teams out of 78 won a cup without at least two superstars, and, orthogonal to that point and relevant to acquiring Jiricek, 10/78 lacked a Norris-quality dman.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Jiricek would be amazing to get. I think the Sharks could put together a very competitive package that doesn’t hurt the Sharks rebuild but also gives incredible value to Columbus.

Jiricek for Sharks 2024 1st (top 1 protected)

For Columbus they get at least a 75% chance at a top 4 pick and 25% chance of the Sharks 2025 1st unprotected.

For Sharks they get a better prospect than anyone they would draft 2-4 this draft. If they win the lottery and draft Celebrini the risk of giving up a potential #1 overall pick is diminished because they would already have Celebrini and Smith so the need for Hagens would be less.

Also if the Sharks draft Celebrini it would instantly incentivize the team to start building a winner without their 25 1st. In this scenario back up a brinks truck for Hanifin.

Couture - Celebrini - Musty
Hertl - Smith - Eklund
Guschin/Duclair/FA - Granlund - Zetterlund

Hanifin - Jiricek
Muk - Emberson
Ferraro/Thrun - Benning

While maybe not a cup team this team is young with potential and would have still have cap space even with Vlassic buried in the AHL.

I would also like to draft Jiricek with the Pens pick and he could start with the Cuda next year.

If the Sharks don’t win the lottery they could keep Smith in college only sign UFA rentals and tank for Hagens.

 

[LadyStanley]

Speculation

 

[spintops]

SJHN Daily: Hertl To Talk His Sharks’ Future With Grier in Off-Season

Will Tomas Hertl ride out the rebuild with the San Jose Sharks? It sounds like a discussion that he will have this off-season with GM Mike Grier. “It’s not an easy situation, where we are. We know that,” Hertl told the Mercury News. “We will see. It’s probably not [time to] talk now, but...

sanjosehockeynow.com

New idea. Hertl for Jiricek before Columbus clears house over the summer. Would be a pretty good fit with Fantilli, Gaudreau, Voronkov, etc.

I think Hertl gets moved this off-season if there is a market, which I never thought before.. maybe Greir's comments made him realize we are years away from even pushing from a wild card spot.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Hertl's term is too long. I could see Couture moved this offseason (or when Burns retention comes off the next year).

I don't think we're the team with the assets for Jiricek unless we can convince them to accept Eklund for him, which I doubt. I think Grier keeps his guys (aka 2024 first and Smith).

We're about 1-1.5 years away from making a big trade where we're the buyer.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Jiricek would be amazing to get. I think the Sharks could put together a very competitive package that doesn’t hurt the Sharks rebuild but also gives incredible value to Columbus.

Jiricek for Sharks 2024 1st (top 1 protected)

For Columbus they get at least a 75% chance at a top 4 pick and 25% chance of the Sharks 2025 1st unprotected.

Interesting proposal. Jiricek would be a terrific add.

If it turns into Hagens next year, how would we feel if Celebrini is a Shark? I can't make my mind up.

 

[Hodge]

Sounds like Hertl wants out. I don't care what we get back, the only priority should be dumping the entire contract with no retention.

 

[Friday]

I love Hertl, Im sure we all love Hertl but gotta question a talented hockey player who's willing to waste his prime + in a long rebuild. His contract extension was so bad, not sure what either side was thinking. I hope he wants out and I hope MG can get real value outta moving him.

 

[STL Shark]

Sounds like Hertl wants out. I don't care what we get back, the only priority should be dumping the entire contract with no retention.

Reuniting with PDB and Pavs in Dallas would seem to be a good fit for him. Benn's deal expires next year which would be $1.35M of cap savings swapping him for Hertl (in addition to getting a better player).

 

[Cas]

I love Hertl, Im sure we all love Hertl but gotta question a talented hockey player who's willing to waste his prime + in a long rebuild. His contract extension was so bad, not sure what either side was thinking. I hope he wants out and I hope MG can get real value outta moving him.

I don't think "wanting to stay with the team he's always played for" says anything about a player.

I'm rather worried about Hertl because he's very slow (one of the 20-30 slowest forwards in the league) and only getting older, but thats separate from being worried that he accepted a big long-term contrqct with his original team.

 

[Hodge]

Reuniting with PDB and Pavs in Dallas would seem to be a good fit for him. Benn's deal expires next year which would be $1.35M of cap savings swapping him for Hertl (in addition to getting a better player).

Would love to get Dellandrea out of there if possible. Seems like he's fallen out of favor.

 

[Friday]

I don't think "wanting to stay with the team he's always played for" says anything about a player.

I'm rather worried about Hertl because he's very slow (one of the 20-30 slowest forwards in the league) and only getting older, but thats separate from being worried that he accepted a big long-term contrqct with his original team.

I think it says a lot about his competitive drive. But I do understand your point

 

[Kcoyote3]

A Marchand-Hertl-Pasta line would be absolutely nuts

 

[Hodge]

No other team would have offered Hertl $65 million. I can't blame him for taking the money. That contract is solely on Hasso and the Sharks.

 

[one2gamble]

If they can move him without any retention they should. I love the man but they should not have signed him at this point in the rebuild.

Hes honestly playing some pretty good hockey and I do wonder if moving him actually helps or hurts the rebuild.

 

[one2gamble]

Interesting proposal. Jiricek would be a terrific add.

If it turns into Hagens next year, how would we feel if Celebrini is a Shark? I can't make my mind up.

This is why I dont know if I do that. There is about a 98% the sharks are in the lottery next year as well. If it could revert to the pens 1st and our 2nd or something else instead of the higher 1st the year after, pull the trigger.

I honestly dont understand why CB struggles so much to build a team. Do they want Hertl.....

 

[coooldude]

This is why I dont know if I do that. There is about a 98% the sharks are in the lottery next year as well. If it could revert to the pens 1st and our 2nd or something else instead of the higher 1st the year after, pull the trigger.

I honestly dont understand why CB struggles so much to build a team. Do they want Hertl.....

CBJ seems to be suffering from Jarmo management issues. Great talent evaluation, horrible roster and prospect management, wouldn't be surprised if the front office is also a mess. Just getting this from the CBJ threads and all the noise in the media.

 

[landshark]

Reuniting with PDB and Pavs in Dallas would seem to be a good fit for him. Benn's deal expires next year which would be $1.35M of cap savings swapping him for Hertl (in addition to getting a better player).

haha Benn finishing out his career on rebuilding Sharks team would be comical.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Does everyone wanting to trade Hertl also want to become Buffalo or Ottawa? You need quality vets around during your rebuild to help instill good habits and insulate young players.

If Hertl requests out or if someone’s giving us actual value, then that’s a different thing, but moving him just to move him is insane.

 

[Sendhelplease]

I'd rather keep hold of Hertl at this point I think. We've cleared enough money off the books I am not worried about his contract long term. I also think that Hertl's style of play should help him age better than most players, he is already slow so he knows how to be a good player while being a slower player, his skill of puck protection should not be affected too much and he is a smart enough player. I also think it is valuable to have the vets around who are at least decent so that Eklund, Smith, and our 2024 pick will have someone other than Luke Kunin to pass to. If someone offers us actual value for Hertl than my opinion may change but for now I think we should keep him.