Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[timorous me]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

 

[Cas]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

"But I've hit nine home runs today."

"Yes, but you're a left-handed hitter, and if I let you hit against their left-handed pitcher, he will have an advantage."

"But I was the National League MVP last year and he files permits in between donut runs."

 

[sharks_dynasty]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

I’m happy to see Eklund with Hertl and Zetterlund. That will be a fun line to watch and EK deserves to be lining up with Hertl. Zetterlund also has been playing well, so is deserving of a bump up.

 

[Alaskanice]

I’m happy to see Eklund with Hertl and Zetterlund. That will be a fun line to watch and EK deserves to be lining up with Hertl. Zetterlund also has been playing well, so is deserving of a bump up.

Reading this forum, you’d think that Zets didn’t belong in the NHL.
I say, good for him.

 

[gaucholoco3]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

Of all the lineups this is one that should not be complained about. If Zadina was in for Hoffman it would be perfect but it has Eklund and Zetterlund who have been playing well with the Sharks best C. Putting possibly the only two long term wings on a line with their best C is progress.

 

[weastern bias]

It took tying the record for losses to start the season, but Quinn finally got Eklund with Hertl

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

David Quinn is making the calls, there is no logic to be gleaned

 

[Jargon]

I like the new lines but similarly don’t understand why Hoffman is in for Zadina. He looked like he was our best player for a few games then got yanked down the lineup and lost confidence as he’s prone to do.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I like the new lines but similarly don’t understand why Hoffman is in for Zadina. He looked like he was our best player for a few games then got yanked down the lineup and lost confidence as he’s prone to do.

The treatment of Zadina and Zetterlund has been puzzling. Must be something behind-the-scenes (similar to how Labanc has been treated).

 

[Hodge]

The treatment of Zadina and Zetterlund has been puzzling. Must be something behind-the-scenes (similar to how Labanc has been treated).

Zadina has been very bad. Zetterlund's average TOI is lower than I would have guessed but Quinn has given him consistent top six and power play time over at least the last 5 or so games, which is deserved based on his strong play relative to our other forwards.

 

[timorous me]

I like the new lines but similarly don’t understand why Hoffman is in for Zadina. He looked like he was our best player for a few games then got yanked down the lineup and lost confidence as he’s prone to do.

Yeah, I should have added that I like Eklund being up with Hertl, and Zetterlund deserves that spot, but I'm just sort of at a loss as to the treatment of Zadina. He and Hertl show chemistry for a couple games, then you break them up and they both struggle, and instead of going back to what was working, you just scratch one of them?

As you said, it's sort of a classic way of killing a kid's confidence. And it honestly felt like the only time this year Hertl has actually looked happy on the ice.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Zadina has been very bad. Zetterlund's average TOI is lower than I would have guessed but Quinn has given him consistent top six and power play time over at least the last 5 or so games, which is deserved based on his strong play relative to our other forwards.

Zadina has looked good from my viewing, but I haven't been watching very closely. So perhaps Quinn is being fair...

 

[Hodge]

Zadina has looked good from my viewing, but I haven't been watching very closely. So perhaps Quinn is being fair...

Obviously this isn't all his fault but with Zadina on the ice 5v5 the Sharks have been outscored 15-2.

 

[WTFetus]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

Eh, I could see the argument of why is Hoffman on the 2nd line, but I'm fine with the line-up otherwise. We often complain of coaches playing favorites and giving players ice-time who don't deserve it. Zadina has been bad. Just because he's been the least bad with Hertl isn't a good enough reason to promote him to the 1st line.

 

[hohosaregood]

So instead of letting Zadina return to Hertl's wing, where the two of them looked their best all season, Quinn decides to move him all over the lineup away from Hertl and, when that doesn't work, to bench him...instead of putting him back on Hertl's wing.

Sometimes I really fail to understand NHL coaching "logic."

Feel like Zetterlund has been more interesting than Zadina outside of the first 2 games so I'm not really sure why Zadina not playing top line minutes is the thing we're harping about.

On the other hand, I think MacDonald needs to be in our top 4 and not in our top 9

 

[Cas]

Zadina doesn't actually look that good, I think he's just this year's Evgeni Svechnikov. That's pretty much what I expected.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Reading this forum, you’d think that Zets didn’t belong in the NHL.
I say, good for him.

I don't think anyone has said that. I think he's 4th liner who can play some at 3rd line.

 

[Lebanezer]

Laugh so hard, you'll cry.

This implies we still contain the neurological requirements to feel emotion.

 

[landshark]

This implies we still contain the neurological requirements to feel emotion.

all i know is pain

 

[Lebanezer]

all i know is pain

 

[Saskatoon]

Correction: top line wing AND defencemen

Should be able to get a couple of 1sts for that!

 

[OrrNumber4]

It seems likely that Grier doesn't intend for this team to compete until 2025-2026. However..the Sharks will have oodles of cap space this off-season. Can it be expected for Smith and the 2024 top-3 pick to make the team in a top-9 capacity? If so, even if Barabanov and Duclair are traded, the forward group would look quite competitive. If Blackwood is the real deal, the only real issue would be the defense. The Sharks would have plenty to target a top defenseman, no?

 

[Barrie22]

It seems likely that Grier doesn't intend for this team to compete until 2025-2026. However..the Sharks will have oodles of cap space this off-season. Can it be expected for Smith and the 2024 top-3 pick to make the team in a top-9 capacity? If so, even if Barabanov and Duclair are traded, the forward group would look quite competitive. If Blackwood is the real deal, the only real issue would be the defense. The Sharks would have plenty to target a top defenseman, no?

Problem is there are no real good defensemen available next offseason.

 

[Cas]

It seems likely that Grier doesn't intend for this team to compete until 2025-2026. However..the Sharks will have oodles of cap space this off-season. Can it be expected for Smith and the 2024 top-3 pick to make the team in a top-9 capacity? If so, even if Barabanov and Duclair are traded, the forward group would look quite competitive. If Blackwood is the real deal, the only real issue would be the defense. The Sharks would have plenty to target a top defenseman, no?

As said, there are no impact defensemen likely to be available.

The forward group still needs much more than Smith and Celebrini/Eiserman/Demidov to be competitive. Right now they are a laughingstock. Come 2025, they can at best be marginally NHL quality from purely internal assets, even if everything goes right:

Eklund - Hertl - Halttunen
Musty - Celebrini - Smith
Gushchin - Bordeleau - Couture
Sturm - Bystedt - Zetterlund
Robins, Lund, Young, Coe

Something like that is the best we can do by late-2025 purely from internal sources. Unless some of these guys (or the other unnamed depth) greatly exceed their expectations, this is not a great forward group - it's a mediocre to poor 1st line, a 2nd line with a lot of promise but little to no experience, and mediocre 3rd and 4th lines.

On top of that, half of these guys will bust or disappoint at best. Without a miracle or three, we will need to add a bunch to this to get it to middle of the league standards.

Add two years to your projection - I suspect our 25-26 goal will realistically be to avoid finishing in the bottom ten.

 

[timorous me]

Feel like Zetterlund has been more interesting than Zadina outside of the first 2 games so I'm not really sure why Zadina not playing top line minutes is the thing we're harping about.

On the other hand, I think MacDonald needs to be in our top 4 and not in our top 9

I don't disagree. It's just the small matter of Quinn separating two forwards who showed chemistry after a few games and not subsequently reuniting them despite how atrociously the team played after that.

The team scored 10 goals through its first 10 games and Zadina had two of those in the first three games (and Hertl had three assists; he's had three in the eight games since).

The goal should be to put your players--especially young players--in a position to succeed, and I don't think he's been very good at that at all with our forwards so far this season, no matter if he has limited resources to work with.

 

[OrrNumber4]

As said, there are no impact defensemen likely to be available.

The forward group still needs much more than Smith and Celebrini/Eiserman/Demidov to be competitive. Right now they are a laughingstock. Come 2025, they can at best be marginally NHL quality from purely internal assets, even if everything goes right:

Eklund - Hertl - Halttunen
Musty - Celebrini - Smith
Gushchin - Bordeleau - Couture
Sturm - Bystedt - Zetterlund
Robins, Lund, Young, Coe

Something like that is the best we can do by late-2025 purely from internal sources. Unless some of these guys (or the other unnamed depth) greatly exceed their expectations, this is not a great forward group - it's a mediocre to poor 1st line, a 2nd line with a lot of promise but little to no experience, and mediocre 3rd and 4th lines.

On top of that, half of these guys will bust or disappoint at best. Without a miracle or three, we will need to add a bunch to this to get it to middle of the league standards.

Add two years to your projection - I suspect our 25-26 goal will realistically be to avoid finishing in the bottom ten.

So Imagine something like this next season:

Ekklund-Couture-Tarasenko
Gushchin-Hertl-Zetterlund
Granlund-Celebrini-Smith
Sturm-Bystedt-Zadina/Bordeleau/Coe/Robbins/G.Smith

Gostisbehere-Benning
Ferraro-Thrun
Mukhamadullin-Burroughs/Knyzhov/Okhotiuk

Blackwood
Chrona

That team still has, what, 15 million in cap space? Not to mention a lot of assets they could move for help" Musty, Halttunen, other prospects, assets they get back for trades they make this season, Pittsburgh's first, New Jersey's first/second...