Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

Sharksfan66

Registered User
Nov 4, 2021
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The Sharks last year had one 20 goal scorer in Zetterlund. They probably could've had three if Duclair and Hertl stuck around so I think them ending next season with at least three and probably four is realistic even with the shortcomings of the blue line. I think you can realistically expect one of those blue liners to somehow crack 30 points but that Kraken team had Dunn get 64 points in 81 games. I just don't see any of them having that kind of season in them. None of them have shown to have Dunn's puck skills. Getting nine skaters at a half a point per game for the season (10 if you include Tolvanen with 27 points in 48 games) is not an easy thing to get and I don't think this team is set up that well for something like that. It's possible those five forwards pull it off but does anyone else?

I'm not worried about the team getting to the playoffs next season. I only worry about getting development out of the players that are their future. I consider next season a success if Eklund hits 20 goals, Celebrini establishes himself as the 1C by the end of the season, Smith does the same at 2C, and either one of Mukhamadullin or Thrun show they belong in the NHL.
Ok, to be argumentative, I’d point out that half the Kracken’s 20 goal scorers didn’t put up 20 the year before either and only 1 of their Dmen cracked 30 points.

But a more constructive response at this point is probably to say that I agree with where you ended up here. I’d feel great if those were the results too. So here’s hoping for at least that!
 

Sharksfan66

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Nov 4, 2021
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I would be thrilled with 50 points from Macklin and 40 points from Smith, personally. More importantly, I just want them to stay healthy and play full seasons.

I feel like both will take some time to get settled in the NHL, so don't expect a four goal game out of the gate for either.
Just curious, but why so low in your projections?

Both WELL outscored the likes of Keller, Berniers, and Cooley in the NCAA and those guys put up 65, 57, and 44 respectively as rookies.

I’d be pretty disappointed if Smith only got 40.
 

Bizz

Slacked for Mack
Oct 17, 2007
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Just curious, but why so low in your projections?

Both WELL outscored the likes of Keller, Berniers, and Cooley in the NCAA and those guys put up 65, 57, and 44 respectively as rookies.

I’d be pretty disappointed if Smith only got 40.

I think these projections are based on the assumption that Mack and Smith are going to be "sheltered" on the 2nd and 3rd lines respectively for their first season. 40 points is well within the expected totals for a decent 3rd liner.
 

Cas

Conversational Black Hole
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Jun 23, 2020
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Just curious, but why so low in your projections?

Both WELL outscored the likes of Keller, Berniers, and Cooley in the NCAA and those guys put up 65, 57, and 44 respectively as rookies.

I’d be pretty disappointed if Smith only got 40.
What were the league scoring rates in each season?
 

pappaf2

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Feb 24, 2009
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Bay Area, CA
I don't want to say anything that can be used against me and my family

IMG_9381.gif
 
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weastern bias

worst team in the league
Feb 3, 2012
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You weren’t here for the years of the Hawks teams beating up on the Sharks led by 2 teenagers? Or see Crosby and Malkin doing the same out East? Both won their first cups at 21, I think, but that was not the first year they made the playoffs…
The difference is those teams had core pieces accumulated over several years of drafting

Penguins:

03
Fleury

04
Malkin

05
Crosby
Letang

06
Staal

Blackhawks

02
Keith

03
Seabrook
Byfuglien

05
Hjalmarssom

06
Toews

07
Kane

We don't have the depth of truly foundational pieces ready to go right now that Toews/Kane and Crosby/Malkin did at those ages because those cups were actually won by Toews/Kane and company and Crosby/Malkin and company

We really are hard resetting from scratch right now, all we have is Smith and Celebrini and a wish and a prayer from Dickinson and Askarov, nevermind this is all built on the assumption Celebrini and Smith are on the same level as those duos of hall of famers in the first place

Drafting high level teenage talent doesn't mean they start winning right away, Alex Ovechkin didn't win the Stanley Cup until he was 32 years old and he's one of the best players of all time, it also greatly depends on the environment these players are brought into and the Sharks are quite barren at the moment
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
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Ok, to be argumentative, I’d point out that half the Kracken’s 20 goal scorers didn’t put up 20 the year before either and only 1 of their Dmen cracked 30 points.

But a more constructive response at this point is probably to say that I agree with where you ended up here. I’d feel great if those were the results too. So here’s hoping for at least that!
I don't see what point that makes in this context. They still had lots of players that have had seasons comparable to what they had there. Some had career years and that's certainly possible in our situation but being able to win on a consistent basis requires a depth of talent up front and on the back end that I don't think we can compare with what we have. More on the blue line than up front as they are promising group but this team needs to prove a lot defensively and with the puck to be able to produce offensively. If they're still playing 60% of their time in their own zone, nobody is going to have a great statistical year and that tends to mean the team results suffer.
 
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Jargon

Registered User
Apr 12, 2011
6,497
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Venice, California
My hope is that Macklin’s dad helps him survive the NHL rigid. That said, he plays a little bit like someone cast a magic spell on Scotty Nichol and gave him elite talent and 8 more inches in height. He's got that fight and the grind which what makes him so insanely fun to watch but also what might get him hurt early on. Hopefully not!
 
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Sharksfan66

Registered User
Nov 4, 2021
218
204
The difference is those teams had core pieces accumulated over several years of drafting

Penguins:

03
Fleury

04
Malkin

05
Crosby
Letang

06
Staal

Blackhawks

02
Keith

03
Seabrook
Byfuglien

05
Hjalmarssom

06
Toews

07
Kane

We don't have the depth of truly foundational pieces ready to go right now that Toews/Kane and Crosby/Malkin did at those ages because those cups were actually won by Toews/Kane and company and Crosby/Malkin and company

We really are hard resetting from scratch right now, all we have is Smith and Celebrini and a wish and a prayer from Dickinson and Askarov, nevermind this is all built on the assumption Celebrini and Smith are on the same level as those duos of hall of famers in the first place

Drafting high level teenage talent doesn't mean they start winning right away, Alex Ovechkin didn't win the Stanley Cup until he was 32 years old and he's one of the best players of all time, it also greatly depends on the environment these players are brought into and the Sharks are quite barren at the moment
Resetting from scratch?? We have 8 first rounders from the last 5 drafts. 😂

I mean, just consider your Pens example for a moment...

Craig Button was just out there saying Celibrini-Smith is our Crosby-Malkin.

Fleury ➔ Askarov
Letting ➔ Dickenson
Staal ➔ Eklund

This is to say nothing of Musty, Mukhamadullin, Bystedt, etc. What makes you think the Sharks are so far behind that team?

And remember, I'm not talking about winning cups with teenagers leading the way, my point was those teams were competitive with teenagers leading the way. I think a lot of you are going to be amazed at what a couple of high end teenagers (in addition to all the other moves we made this offseason) can do.
 

Sharksfan66

Registered User
Nov 4, 2021
218
204
I don't see what point that makes in this context. They still had lots of players that have had seasons comparable to what they had there. Some had career years and that's certainly possible in our situation but being able to win on a consistent basis requires a depth of talent up front and on the back end that I don't think we can compare with what we have. More on the blue line than up front as they are promising group but this team needs to prove a lot defensively and with the puck to be able to produce offensively. If they're still playing 60% of their time in their own zone, nobody is going to have a great statistical year and that tends to mean the team results suffer.
You said we only had 1 player hit 20 goals the previous season and seemed to imply from that that we would not be likely to get 5 this year. My point was that by your logic, the Kracken weren't likely to get 6 either, but they did. All 5 guys I listed have shown they are 20 goal scorers (except Eklund, which I think even the most conservative on here expect him to be this year), so we too have players that have had seasons comparable to what I was suggesting, at least up front. D does seem like more of a wish and a prayer, but you never know what a new coach and an actual system and an injection of (arguably) three top 4 guys (Ceci, Walman, Benning) will do.

I guess we've talked this one to death by now, I'll just leave this here for people to quote me when then Sharks draft top 3 again and I look dumb. I think a lot of you are going to be surprised at the leap forward the Sharks take this year.

What were the league scoring rates in each season?
I'm embarrassed to say I'm not sure how to look that up.

I would imagine scoring was lower in those seasons than it will be for the coming season (scoring seems to be skyrocketing right now), but I could be wrong. 🤷‍♂️
 
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ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
11,515
2,380
El Paso, TX
Only 4 more years of that idiotic tv deal.

The TV deal is idiotic, but this has nothing to do with it. This is all about the NHL and ESPN choosing that this game be nationally televised exclusively on a streaming platform.

I'm out of market, so it's not that big of a deal to me, but I get how in market it's an issue because, in theory, if you live in the Bay Area with cable or sat, that alone should get you every game without the need for a streaming service.
 
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mogambomoroo

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Sponsor
Oct 12, 2020
1,820
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Hockey players have always felt so immortal in my eyes and now we get a terrible news that reminds everyone to cherish our time here. For the hockey, for the life!
RIP Johnny Hockey, you will be forever remembered.
 
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