Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[weastern bias]

First time we see Toffoli in a Sharks jersey, I'm sold

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827893350697206116

 

[67 others]

It’s possible for them to not be worst in the division. Anaheim and Calgary aren’t looking great either but the Sharks still have an atrocious blue line that’s going to hold them back consistently. They’ll look a lot more like a growing team with more young players up front though which will be exciting but probably not enough to overcome the lack of quality puck movers on defense.

I would argue Anaheim looks a lot better than they are performing and I'm always surprised they don't take the next step.

Their rebuild is 3 years ahead of ours and they amassed quite a few blue chip prospects, several of whom already play at star level. Zegras was the start of their rebuild in 2019.

 

[Jargon]

Nico Sturm interview in German (used Google translate):

Last season was probably not much fun, so why will it be better next season?

Basically because we have new coaches and a new staff. In the preseason there was no system to be seen, everything seemed to be a lot of random. The guys were unsure in certain situations when it came to the build-up and plays. So it will be an extremely important training camp for us, especially when it comes to behavior in the defensive zone. That was harakiri recently. I recently spoke to Ryan (coach Ryan Warsofsky) on the phone. He said that we are now taking a completely different approach.

…I know we sorta heard that already but Nico just blatantly says it here.

 

[Erep]

I would argue Anaheim looks a lot better than they are performing and I'm always surprised they don't take the next step.

Their rebuild is 3 years ahead of ours and they amassed quite a few blue chip prospects, several of whom already play at star level. Zegras was the start of their rebuild in 2019.

Sounds exactly like how people described Buffalo a while back...


(They start the season hot, go on a rough patch and implode. The hard part of transitioning from talented prospects to a winning team.)

 

[STL Shark]

Sounds exactly like how people described Buffalo a while back...


(They start the season hot, go on a rough patch and implode. The hard part of transitioning from talented prospects to a winning team.)

Think in both cases the lack of winning veteran players hindered those rebuilds. That and they haven't had a prospect come through that is capable of being the best player on a good team like Macklin has the potential to be (more of a Buffalo issue than Anaheim issue as I think McTavish/Carlsson can be those guys even if they're not Celebrini level).

I also think that in both instances there just hasn't been the urgency and aggression to turn things around quickly that we've seen with Grier. The fact that we'd been after Askarov for a full year gave me so much confidence in Grier as it shows he has a clearly defined plan of attack for how to do this as opposed to just taking things as they come each year at the draft and hoping you look up in 5 years and everything has come together as a winning team.

 

[Barrie22]

Took the words right out of my mouth

I expect the 2025 Sharks to be worlds better than the 2024 Sharks

I still expect them to be in the conversation for dead last in the standings

Last year was truly a historically bad team, it was probably one of the 20 or so worst seasons any team has ever had in the history of the NHL, we're gonna take a big step forward this year and it's going to be reflected in the on ice product but we may not see a substantive jump in the standings

I would be THRILLED if we were outside of the bottom 10 next year, I think we're comfortably in the bottom 5, and I still think we have the worst roster in the league barring a huge rookie season from one of our centers where they look like a future hall-of-famer out the gate, the D core just isn't there for this team to be truly competitive

Of teams that played 72+ games, it ranks 39th in terms of wins. And 29th in terms of points.

In terms of cap era, it is the worst season by 1 point ahead of the 16-17 avs.

 

[STL Shark]

Took the words right out of my mouth

I expect the 2025 Sharks to be worlds better than the 2024 Sharks

I still expect them to be in the conversation for dead last in the standings

Last year was truly a historically bad team, it was probably one of the 20 or so worst seasons any team has ever had in the history of the NHL, we're gonna take a big step forward this year and it's going to be reflected in the on ice product but we may not see a substantive jump in the standings

I would be THRILLED if we were outside of the bottom 10 next year, I think we're comfortably in the bottom 5, and I still think we have the worst roster in the league barring a huge rookie season from one of our centers where they look like a future hall-of-famer out the gate, the D core just isn't there for this team to be truly competitive

If we increase our goals for by 15-20% and our goals against by 15-20% (think both are very possible), that puts us at the level of Montreal/Columbus in terms of differential and in the bottom 5 in both goals for and against.

Feel like that would be a good step forward for this team/org into the realm of respectability as a team, but also bad enough to get another key difference making prospect in the 2025 Draft (which is about the perfect season to me).

Finish bottom 3 while being much improved on the ice and either win the lottery and trade down for a haul (that can be used to acquire the young RHD needed) or draft Martone at 2nd or 3rd and try to figure out the right side of the defense in another way.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Nico Sturm interview in German (used Google translate):

Last season was probably not much fun, so why will it be better next season?

Basically because we have new coaches and a new staff. In the preseason there was no system to be seen, everything seemed to be a lot of random. The guys were unsure in certain situations when it came to the build-up and plays. So it will be an extremely important training camp for us, especially when it comes to behavior in the defensive zone. That was harakiri recently. I recently spoke to Ryan (coach Ryan Warsofsky) on the phone. He said that we are now taking a completely different approach.

…I know we sorta heard that already but Nico just blatantly says it here.

And people were seriously baffled at getting rid of Quinn while still rebuilding...

 

[CHALUPA]

And people were seriously baffled at getting rid of Quinn while still rebuilding...

That’s my Tank Commander right there. Hang his suit jacket in the rafters.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I guarantee that Edstrom was not a throw in. Trotz covets all center prospects.

Well he is a trotz type player

 

[Jargon]

Think in both cases the lack of winning veteran players hindered those rebuilds. That and they haven't had a prospect come through that is capable of being the best player on a good team like Macklin has the potential to be (more of a Buffalo issue than Anaheim issue as I think McTavish/Carlsson can be those guys even if they're not Celebrini level).

I also think that in both instances there just hasn't been the urgency and aggression to turn things around quickly that we've seen with Grier. The fact that we'd been after Askarov for a full year gave me so much confidence in Grier as it shows he has a clearly defined plan of attack for how to do this as opposed to just taking things as they come each year at the draft and hoping you look up in 5 years and everything has come together as a winning team.

Agreed. It’s what I really, really like about his plan. He is relentlessly attacking each thing on his list and aggressively getting things done as quickly as he can.

I 100% think that now he has Askarov and our forward prospect depth that his #1 mission will be to find friends for Dickinson and Muhk. I’m sure he’s checked in on guys like Dobson, I’m positive he’s talked to every GM with a young RD about what it may take to get one. I can even see them dangling a guy like Musty for an equivalent young RD. I don’t know if he’ll get anyone before next summer but I bet he’s having all those convos as we speak.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Agreed. It’s what I really, really like about his plan. He is relentlessly attacking each thing on his list and aggressively getting things done as quickly as he can.

I 100% think that now he has Askarov and our forward prospect depth that his #1 mission will be to find friends for Dickinson and Muhk. I’m sure he’s checked in on guys like Dobson, I’m positive he’s talked to every GM with a young RD about what it may take to get one. I can even see them dangling a guy like Musty for an equivalent young RD. I don’t know if he’ll get anyone before next summer but I bet he’s having all those convos as we speak.

I think Dobson would be perfect but it is a tough ask for the Islanders to sell off seeing as Barzal and Sorokin are still in their 20’s signed for multiple years. Maybe if they tank he might be available.

Would you (everyone) trade the #1 pick straight up for a signed Dobson?

I would have to consider it although having the 1st pick would imply the Sharks didn’t make enough of a jump to go after Dobson that aggressively.

If not then at what number would you (everyone) trade? Top 5? Top 10?

 

[The Nemesis]

Nico Sturm interview in German (used Google translate):

Last season was probably not much fun, so why will it be better next season?

Basically because we have new coaches and a new staff. In the preseason there was no system to be seen, everything seemed to be a lot of random. The guys were unsure in certain situations when it came to the build-up and plays. So it will be an extremely important training camp for us, especially when it comes to behavior in the defensive zone. That was harakiri recently. I recently spoke to Ryan (coach Ryan Warsofsky) on the phone. He said that we are now taking a completely different approach.

…I know we sorta heard that already but Nico just blatantly says it here.

How very German of him

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think Dobson would be perfect but it is a tough ask for the Islanders to sell off seeing as Barzal and Sorokin are still in their 20’s signed for multiple years. Maybe if they tank he might be available.

Would you (everyone) trade the #1 pick straight up for a signed Dobson?

I would have to consider it although having the 1st pick would imply the Sharks didn’t make enough of a jump to go after Dobson that aggressively.

If not then at what number would you (everyone) trade? Top 5? Top 10?

No on the #1 pick. I certainly can't imagine Grier moving the opportunity to pick another Boston guy #1. Top 5, I wouldn't do it because I suspect the best RHD option for the Sharks is likely in that range for next year. Hensler and Trethewey are currently top 10 picks but that position almost always has a premium placed on it and the top ones on the chart tend to go higher than anticipated which probably means needing to be around 3-8 to guarantee them for the team. If it's outside the top 10, I'd be open to moving that pick for the right guy at the position but it would be a high bar to clear. Dobson would clear it but who knows about other potentially available RHD's.

 

[gaucholoco3]

No on the #1 pick. I certainly can't imagine Grier moving the opportunity to pick another Boston guy #1. Top 5, I wouldn't do it because I suspect the best RHD option for the Sharks is likely in that range for next year. Hensler and Trethewey are currently top 10 picks but that position almost always has a premium placed on it and the top ones on the chart tend to go higher than anticipated which probably means needing to be around 3-8 to guarantee them for the team. If it's outside the top 10, I'd be open to moving that pick for the right guy at the position but it would be a high bar to clear. Dobson would clear it but who knows about other potentially available RHD's.

My issue with not being willing to trade a top 5 pick is the ideal pick this season is a #1 D who is preferably RH. So you won’t trade the pick for a player who fits exactly what the goal of that pick is.

This reminds me of the Family Guy “mystery box” clip. If they win #1 I could see trading down to get another 1st and then trading the higher 1st for Dobson.

 

[Hodge]

I think Dobson would be perfect but it is a tough ask for the Islanders to sell off seeing as Barzal and Sorokin are still in their 20’s signed for multiple years. Maybe if they tank he might be available.

Would you (everyone) trade the #1 pick straight up for a signed Dobson?

I would have to consider it although having the 1st pick would imply the Sharks didn’t make enough of a jump to go after Dobson that aggressively.

If not then at what number would you (everyone) trade? Top 5? Top 10?

Depends on what the draft class looks like next June but yeah I'd probably trade the #1 pick for Dobson. Certainly any pick outside the top 5.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My issue with not being willing to trade a top 5 pick is the ideal pick this season is a #1 D who is preferably RH. So you won’t trade the pick for a player who fits exactly what the goal of that pick is.

This reminds me of the Family Guy “mystery box” clip. If they win #1 I could see trading down to get another 1st and then trading the higher 1st for Dobson.

A lot of it is because the leverage doesn't make sense. Moving the top pick for Dobson is a large overpay. Dobson is only available if he's pricing himself out of New York. That should be enough leverage to at least protect the pick in the top ten. We also have other assets to cover the difference and nobody else is likely to have a want to pay a top ten pick for Dobson in that same situation. The other thing is that this draft is likely their next best bet to address such a position if Dobson isn't available. Nobody else on the trade or free agent market looks like a similar answer to such a positional need. We shouldn't pay any and all cost to address such a need. We still have to be smart about leverage.

 

[Patty Ice]

How very German of him

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[gaucholoco3]

Dobson would be the obvious fit and help accelerate the timeline similar to the Askarov trade.

25-26
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Granlund ($7mil) - Smith - Zetterlund ($5mil)
Bystedt/Musty - Wennberg - Dellandrea
Grundstrom - Goodrow - Graf
Couture (LTIR), xxx ($1mil), xxx ($1mil)

Mukamadulin - Dobson ($10mil)
Walman - Ceci ($6mil)
Ferraro- Benning
Vlassic

Askarov
xxx ($2mil)

This lineup with quick math is around $88 million cap hit including Couture. If they can’t get a 2nd from Ceci or Granlund then why not sign to high cap hit 2 year deals.

Granlund 2x$7mil
Ceci 2x$6mil

This still leaves a clean cap sheet for raises for the expiring ELCs.

 

[sharski]

you only get so many realistic shots at a 1-3 overall pick, so when you're in it, you have to be fully committed to the tank... i hope celebrini and smith understand that this is the price of doing business

i'm an optimist, so I really think this season might be the last one before the new gen & GMMG drag the team kicking screaming out of the basement era

 

[Bizz]

Dobson would be the obvious fit and help accelerate the timeline similar to the Askarov trade.

25-26
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Granlund ($7mil) - Smith - Zetterlund ($5mil)
Bystedt/Musty - Wennberg - Dellandrea
Grundstrom - Goodrow - Graf
Couture (LTIR), xxx ($1mil), xxx ($1mil)

Mukamadulin - Dobson ($10mil)
Walman - Ceci ($6mil)
Ferraro- Benning
Vlassic

Askarov
xxx ($2mil)

This lineup with quick math is around $88 million cap hit including Couture. If they can’t get a 2nd from Ceci or Granlund then why not sign to high cap hit 2 year deals.

Granlund 2x$7mil
Ceci 2x$6mil

This still leaves a clean cap sheet for raises for the expiring ELCs.

Ceci isn't even worth the 3mil he makes now. No shot in hell he's getting a raise. In fact He'll probably be out of the NHL in 25-26.

 

[sampler]

Dobson would be the obvious fit and help accelerate the timeline similar to the Askarov trade.

25-26
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Granlund ($7mil) - Smith - Zetterlund ($5mil)
Bystedt/Musty - Wennberg - Dellandrea
Grundstrom - Goodrow - Graf
Couture (LTIR), xxx ($1mil), xxx ($1mil)

Mukamadulin - Dobson ($10mil)
Walman - Ceci ($6mil)
Ferraro- Benning
Vlassic

Askarov
xxx ($2mil)

This lineup with quick math is around $88 million cap hit including Couture. If they can’t get a 2nd from Ceci or Granlund then why not sign to high cap hit 2 year deals.

Granlund 2x$7mil
Ceci 2x$6mil

This still leaves a clean cap sheet for raises for the expiring ELCs.

I like it except I want Pettersson and/or Larsson instead of Ceci and Ceci at 6m is double his value.

Lastly I’d like em to add at least one more top 6 ufa forward.

 

[sampler]

I really think the sharks will be a whole lot better than we think. Sturm's quote illustrated the incompetence of Quinn. I've posted repeatedly about how Quinn's departure revolutionized NYR. Honestly, I think Quinn is arguably the worst coach in the NHL, and I wouldnt be surprised if quinn alone was reason for 20-30 pts lost. Not a PO team with the roster of last year either way, but not necessarily historically bad. Thats a Quinn effect of having no system, so much confusion, and just plain ugly.

Coaches matter. They arent everything, but they matter. Look at what Gerard Gallant did with start up vegas or after Quinn in New York, or what Lemaire did with NJD. He was so good at coaching that they had to change the rules because of his neutral zone trap to eliminate the two line pass.

Warsofsky seems to be exponentially better. I wanted Carle or Gallant, but I am warming to Warsofsky. Hes very young. he's personable. He's won a championship just 2 years ago in the AHL and has been a winner at every level very swiftly moving up the ranks. When a guy moves from caoching at non-name Curry college to being an ECHL assistant coach to ECHL head, to AHL Asst, to AHL head, to NHL asst, to NHL head coach in such short time, something is right with him. He knows how to coach defense (not just manage the D, but coach defensive systems) and the PK. He knows how to relate to each player individually (getting full buy in from goodrow after he got totally hosed is amazing). If he can get full buy in from everyone, that's HUGE. A good system, a healthy locker room, and full buy in from players goes a loooooong way. The only problem is that hes a bit undersized at 5'9"...

This year's team is vastly better than last year and its a largely brand new team. 12 new starters, new Coach. New top liners. More quality vets and more young talent. It has multiple cup winners (goodie, toffoli along with ruuta and sturm), as well as ceci who was one game away from a cup winner. It has a calder cup champion coach. There is a fair amount of buzz and optimism around the org.

Imagine last year's team had 67 pts instead of 47 because we had a reasonable system and more buy in from players. If we were coming from a 4th worst reference point, the PO's would seem far more realistic. lets see what happens!

I just put 100 on the sharks to win the cup.... hoping to $40,000 (well aside from taxes)...

 

[weastern bias]

I just put 100 on the sharks to win the cup.... hoping to $40,000 (well aside from taxes)...

This is why they have to read the hotline numbers at the end of the ad reads

 

[Sharksfan83]

I just put 100 on the sharks to win the cup.... hoping to $40,000 (well aside from taxes)...

I was enjoying the read until I got to here, why? A team with a defence that centres around Ceci and Ferraro isn’t winning too much at all.