2023-24 #2: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

[Strawberry Fields]

I can't give any credit to anything that came after the Philadelphia Phantoms. That's just where my nostalgia allegiances lie. Lehigh Valley is lame, Adirondack is the lamest.

 

[Magua]

@FLYguy3911 — so much for “Bumper Bonk.” Find a new slant.





Two ES goals. Own goals off passes. But ES own goals. That’s development.

 

[wasup]

Was talking to an NHL scout a few weeks back and he actually thinks Flyers in a few years will be happy with the Cutter trade . He said he is not sure how much of Cutters game is translatable to the NHL . Thought he could be ok at best but limited NHL upside . Time will tell .

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

These f***ing popped. They don't look like minor league jerseys. They look like old college jerseys or some disbanded 1920s pro team. With just a couple minor changes.....

They look like the old Hartford Wolfpack sweaters. Do they still have them?

 

[deadhead]

The crazy streak continues, 2 PPG for like his last 12 or so?

 

[FLYguy3911]

@FLYguy3911 — so much for “Bumper Bonk.” Find a new slant.





Two ES goals. Own goals off passes. But ES own goals. That’s development.

Robert Hagg is jealous of Bonk's luck.

 

[BernieParent]

@FLYguy3911 — so much for “Bumper Bonk.” Find a new slant.





Two ES goals. Own goals off passes. But ES own goals. That’s development.

Counterpoint: could Bonk solve the Flyers' 1C issue?

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Counterpoint: could Bonk solve the Flyers' 1C issue?

His dad was a center, surely Oliver can seamlessly make the transition

 

[VladDrag]

Was talking to an NHL scout a few weeks back and he actually thinks Flyers in a few years will be happy with the Cutter trade . He said he is not sure how much of Cutters game is translatable to the NHL . Thought he could be ok at best but limited NHL upside . Time will tell .

There's a lot of people here the questioned his ability to translate.

 

[mr4tno]

People think that the coaches are to blame, but imo the Phantoms' biggest issue is that they ever stopped wearing these threads and got rid of Phlex in favor of some Sesame Street reject.

View attachment 814681

Ironically, while they should be mimicking the system of the Flyers, they have instead chosen to mimic their gimmickry.

 

[Random Forest]

Counterpoint: could Bonk solve the Flyers' 1C issue?

One of my more outlandish beliefs is that a small but not insignificant percentage of players could actually convert between forward and defense relatively easily in a Dustin Byfuglien sort of way (I am 100% not saying that this applies to Bonk). I think Couturier could have been an effective top pairing defender with some reps, for example. For a lot of players, there’s obviously no transferable skill set between positions, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone, and I often wish coaches had leash to get creative trying out all kinds of weird experiments even if they blow up.

 

[VladDrag]

One of my more outlandish beliefs is that a small but not insignificant percentage of players could actually convert between forward and defense relatively easily in a Dustin Byfuglien sort of way (I am 100% not saying that this applies to Bonk). I think Couturier could have been an effective top pairing defender with some reps, for example. For a lot of players, there’s obviously no transferable skill set between positions, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone, and I often wish coaches had leash to get creative trying out all kinds of weird experiments even if they blow up.

I was having a conversation with the guy that runs Hockeyviz on twitter, and he eluded to the fact some people in the hockey community are beginning to abolish the idea of positions in general -- Just 5 skaters. I don't know if I fully subscribe to that idea as it stands, but I don't think it's out of the question, either.

What I will say, based on my personal observations, is that the once complete hard line between defense and forwards is has become blurred. I don't know if Couts would be a 1D (not saying he's not), but there are certainly forwards who would be fine defenseman, and vise versa. I think, in general, if a player can process quick enough, they can play.

 

[BernieParent]

Thanks, both, for your interesting and serious answers to my tongue-in-cheek post. I agree that the game has become more fluid in player positioning and activation, even though there was a rover way back in the mists of hockey history. We have come to expect defensemen joining the rush and possibly leading it. As you alluded to, these transitions are quite possibly much more readily done than we would perceive, although I would think that forward-to-defense would likely experience some lack of angling onrushing opponents and perhaps even the subtleties of puck blocking (shifting and angling feet, stick positioning, etc.). But to argue against myself, the greater frequency of defensemen jumping up in offensive situations puts the emphasis on the off-puck forwards to cover for them and take up an immediate defensive role.

 

[deadhead]

I was having a conversation with the guy that runs Hockeyviz on twitter, and he eluded to the fact some people in the hockey community are beginning to abolish the idea of positions in general -- Just 5 skaters. I don't know if I fully subscribe to that idea as it stands, but I don't think it's out of the question, either.

What I will say, based on my personal observations, is that the once complete hard line between defense and forwards is has become blurred. I don't know if Couts would be a 1D (not saying he's not), but there are certainly forwards who would be fine defenseman, and vise versa. I think, in general, if a player can process quick enough, they can play.

Probably depends on skating ability, not speed, but ability to skate backwards, maintain balance and vision, some forwards can do so, others have to turn to skate back then turn again to face the oncoming rushers. Also IQ, in this sort of fluid system, forwards have to be smart enough to switch between attacking and filling a D-man's role.

The tendency for D-men to attack the weak side means one forward has to cycle back and "play defense." So defensive skills will become more important in these sort of schemes.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

One of my more outlandish beliefs is that a small but not insignificant percentage of players could actually convert between forward and defense relatively easily in a Dustin Byfuglien sort of way (I am 100% not saying that this applies to Bonk). I think Couturier could have been an effective top pairing defender with some reps, for example. For a lot of players, there’s obviously no transferable skill set between positions, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone, and I often wish coaches had leash to get creative trying out all kinds of weird experiments even if they blow up.

Some years ago, Rhys Jessop (now a scout for Carolina) made an observation that Mitch Marner is a Defenseman who was never given the chance to play it for various reasons. That sort of focus on narrow skills and how players leverage them is one of the fascinating bits of a tactically boring sport for me. The resulting conversation where @Magua drew the line between Marner and Quinn Hughes as puck carriers gave me the example that made the idea click for me.

The league as a whole is still so uninterested in taking outside the box chances that I think it would have to be a top-down organizational approach. No coaching staff is going to have the stroke to have a few of these in a row blow up in their faces without being fired.

 

[deadhead]

Some years ago, Rhys Jessop made an observation that Mitch Marner is a Defenseman who was never given the chance to play it for various reasons. That sort of focus on narrow skills and how players leverage them is one of the fascinating bits of a tactically boring sport for me. The resulting conversation where @Magua drew the line between Marner and Quinn Hughes as puck carriers gave me the example that made the idea click for me.

The league as a whole is still so uninterested in taking outside the box chances that I think it would have to be a top-down organizational approach. No coaching staff is going to have the stroke to have a few of these in a row blow up in their faces without being fired.

But you do have to distinguish between the few players so talented to fill different roles and those players who need to be sheltered by putting them into simple roles that don't ask them to do too much.

If I had an ultra-talented D-man like Makar, I'd be looking for ways to maximize him impact at both ends of the ice, same with a Marner, but the run of the mill player, asking them to play multiple roles might exceed their limits. But I'd certainly test players in the AHL, and see what they could handle.

 

[Beef Invictus]

One of my more outlandish beliefs is that a small but not insignificant percentage of players could actually convert between forward and defense relatively easily in a Dustin Byfuglien sort of way (I am 100% not saying that this applies to Bonk). I think Couturier could have been an effective top pairing defender with some reps, for example. For a lot of players, there’s obviously no transferable skill set between positions, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone, and I often wish coaches had leash to get creative trying out all kinds of weird experiments even if they blow up.

I was having a conversation with the guy that runs Hockeyviz on twitter, and he eluded to the fact some people in the hockey community are beginning to abolish the idea of positions in general -- Just 5 skaters. I don't know if I fully subscribe to that idea as it stands, but I don't think it's out of the question, either.

What I will say, based on my personal observations, is that the once complete hard line between defense and forwards is has become blurred. I don't know if Couts would be a 1D (not saying he's not), but there are certainly forwards who would be fine defenseman, and vise versa. I think, in general, if a player can process quick enough, they can play.

During the Christmas travels my dad and I were talking about how basketball just keeps getting more positionless and he asked "Why hasn't hockey done that?" and we were starting down these exact same roads. We were drinking so I've been unsure if it was reasonable or just boozetalk. You people make me think "reasonable"

Heading back to the days of Hakstol's hiring, I loved his talk of dmen not just being dmen, but being fully engaged to create a real five-man attack. I very much approve of Tortorella unleashing his dmen even if I slam other things. I love watching some of the high skill "modern" teams and the way they'll swing back high and use a dman in conjunction with a the forwards to make an in-zone rush with a numbers advantage. Barring another surprise DPE, the evolution might be happening. I wanna see how far it goes.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

For anyone who has access to NESN (Bruins' TV), there are two college hockey games today in the first round of the annual Beanpot Tourney:

Monday, Feb. 5: Harvard vs. Northeastern, 5 p.m., NESN. | Boston College vs. Boston University, 8 p.m., NESN

Monday, Feb. 12: Consolation Game, 4:30 p.m., NESN | Finals, 7:30 p.m., NESN

CHN College Hockey Game Night Scoreboard

CHN College Hockey Game Night Scoreboard

www.collegehockeynews.com

 

[BernieParent]

Some years ago, Rhys Jessop (now a scout for Carolina) made an observation that Mitch Marner is a Defenseman who was never given the chance to play it for various reasons. That sort of focus on narrow skills and how players leverage them is one of the fascinating bits of a tactically boring sport for me. The resulting conversation where @Magua drew the line between Marner and Quinn Hughes as puck carriers gave me the example that made the idea click for me.

The league as a whole is still so uninterested in taking outside the box chances that I think it would have to be a top-down organizational approach. No coaching staff is going to have the stroke to have a few of these in a row blow up in their faces without being fired.

I infer that you are intentionally omitting forward Samuel Morin. Shame.

 

[deadhead]

I infer that you are intentionally omitting forward Samuel Morin. Shame.

I wonder if one reason they did that was his knees had gotten so bad he struggled skating backwards, so his only option left was to try to play forward.

Another thought, PP is different than 5x5, some D-men have skills that might work at forward on the power play, Risto net front when you don't have a Simmonds, Bonk at the bumper, etc. Conversely, if you have a Zamula at the blue line, you want someone fast to pair with him (b/c he's got below average speed so a turnover is a clean breakaway).

It's about both roles and skills and finding the optimal mix.

 

[mr4tno]

One of my more outlandish beliefs is that a small but not insignificant percentage of players could actually convert between forward and defense relatively easily in a Dustin Byfuglien sort of way (I am 100% not saying that this applies to Bonk). I think Couturier could have been an effective top pairing defender with some reps, for example. For a lot of players, there’s obviously no transferable skill set between positions, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone, and I often wish coaches had leash to get creative trying out all kinds of weird experiments even if they blow up.

And ND could have been (and was) an equally suck-ass defender as he is a forward

 

[deadhead]

And ND could have been (and was) an equally suck-ass defender as he is a forward

He might have been a better defenseman, his inability to finish would be less of a liability, and his physical play would work in the right role.

 

[Magua]

The Flyers have used 3 defensemen with an empty net, 2 defensemen in OT, and 2 defensemen on every PP (including the half wall), so I think they're ahead of the curve when it comes to position-less hockey. And that position-less is forward.

Cycle hockey should be positionless. It's the shitty turret defensemen who bog that down. But if you're skilled and a good passer, there's ample room for switches, funneling to the middle, etc. You see someone like MacKinnon who regularly initiates his cycle offense from where defensemen operate -- almost 3 across -- to build downhill speed. Creating offense from the boards isn't prioritized/fostered in defenders, but that's a developmental evolution thing more than fact of life. The same applies to back-skating and footwork being prioritized/fostered in defensemen. That change has to start at lower levels. Diminished size bias on defense helps. Obviously, there are skill-set limits.

Where hockey differs from positionless basketball is rush offense/defense. Yes, there are fast breaks and sporadic full court presses, but generally, any good basketball team retreats into its half court defensive set after a possession change. Solving the NZ is a unique problem to hockey, and forwards are the first to break out for obvious reasons. If you want to take out forward passing again, sure.

Couturier was mentioned, but you know who I think would have been an elite defensemen in an alternate reality? Giroux.

 

[BigToe]

The Flyers have used 3 defensemen with an empty net, 2 defensemen in OT, and 2 defensemen on every PP (including the half wall), so I think they're ahead of the curve when it comes to position-less hockey. And that position-less is forward.

Cycle hockey should be positionless. It's the shitty turret defensemen who bog that down. But if you're skilled and a good passer, there's ample room for switches, funneling to the middle, etc. You see someone like MacKinnon who regularly initiates his cycle offense from where defensemen operate -- almost 3 across -- to build downhill speed. Creating offense from the boards isn't prioritized/fostered in defenders, but that's a developmental evolution thing more than fact of life. The same applies to back-skating and footwork being prioritized/fostered in defensemen. That change has to start at lower levels. Diminished size bias on defense helps. Obviously, there are skill-set limits.

Where hockey differs from positionless basketball is rush offense/defense. Yes, there are fast breaks and sporadic full court presses, but generally, any good basketball team retreats into its half court defensive set after a possession change. Solving the NZ is a unique problem to hockey, and forwards are the first to break out for obvious reasons. If you want to take out forward passing again, sure.

Couturier was mentioned, but you know who I think would have been an elite defensemen in an alternate reality? Giroux.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Never forget when Morin and Friedman dressed as forwards. Ahhh Lake Tahoe. Such simpler times.