Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[CaleMakaw]

With Richard 88 retired, I figured I'd take a crack at the old armchair. Flame away.

 

[henchman21]

He is not currently a center for AZ. He has capably played the position previously, I remember watching him in Chicago look damn good there, for example.

Except he sucks at faceoffs.

Duchene is not currently a center, but played it in the past… he also isn’t capable of the role anymore. Just because a player played one way, years ago prior to injuries and age… doesn’t mean they can continue to play that way.

Schmaltz has shown zero ability in the last few seasons to play a top 6 center role. It is a huge risk of assets and a season to acquire a guy who hasn’t shown the ability. He’s a great wing, and there is value in that… he just does nothing to solve the 2C issue. He’d just be another guy in the ‘maybe it could work’ realm. Personally, not a fan of that option in a short Cup window.

I don't think it would cost that much. Not more than the player is worth, but certainly more than you may like to pay.

You're absolutely right, Arizona really doesn't have any motivation. The only motivation they have is when Armstrong determines it is time to move on from tanking and actually start putting together a roster. I think Toews would certainly interest in that situation. But I don't think Bill is done accumulating high draft picks yet, so...

Here's the thing though, Montreal wasn't shopping Lehkonen either. They had no motivation to move him. Joe Sakic just wouldn't shut up about it and they finally relented. Once CMac has determined his target for center, I expect him to get a deal done. It won't be cheap no matter who it is.

Anyways, this is CMac's team now, it'll be interesting to see what he does this summer. I have a feeling it won't be anything like what I want to happen, but I also know there is probably a very good reason Joe Sakic hired CMac and not me as a successor.

For guys they don’t want to move, you’d have to pay up. On the side of them choosing to win this year, odds are against that decision with the organizational issues right now. Maybe those get solved in a month, but I tend to doubt it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

95% of people here were calling for Sakic’s head his first 3 or so years here as well. Yes it was a bad year and they didn’t go all in, but give the guy a chance to settle in. Even though he worked on a lot of stuff with Sakic, he’s likely got a lot more to learn as a GM, just like Sakic did.

Oh I agree. Sakic wasn’t flawless to begin. Cmac could work into a genius for all I know. But it’s not as easy to forgive Cmac’s first year because he managed a team that was capable of winning a cup in the middle of a very small window.

 

[Vaslof]

Oh I agree. Sakic wasn’t flawless to begin. Cmac could work into a genius for all I know. But it’s not as easy to forgive Cmac’s first year because he managed a team that was capable of winning a cup in the middle of a very small window.

Very small window what???

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Very small window what???

It's possible the Avs are not really contending next season. A lot depends on the moves they make and if Landeskog is any good when he comes back.

 

[Vaslof]

It's possible the Avs are not really contending next season. A lot depends on the moves they make and if Landeskog is any good when he comes back.

Sorry but that's just dumb. I don't know what else to say. You have some of the best players in the entire sport in your team and you can't even contend? Bullshit. They can and they will.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sorry but that's just dumb. I don't know what else to say. You have some of the best players in the entire sport in your team and you can't even contend? Bullshit. They can and they will.

Not without depth they won't, just like this season. A lot depends on CMac making solid moves and acting like a GM of a contender, nobody knows if that happens.

 

[Vaslof]

Not without depth they won't, just like this season. A lot depends on CMac making solid moves and acting like a GM of a contender, nobody knows if that happens.

They did contend this season though. Contending doesn't mean you win. Even the best team in the league only has like a 1/5 chance to win. (E: Even 1/5 is too high TBH, closer to 1/10 but over it)

 

[TruePowerSlave]

They did contend this season though. Contending doesn't mean you win. Even the best team in the league only has like a 1/5 chance to win. (E: Even 1/5 is too high TBH, closer to 1/10 but over it)

The Avs contending depended on a decent deadline. After the CMac horror show the team was done, there just wasn't enough depth to make a run at the cup.

 

[Ararana]

Hoo boy here we go

I can not wait to watch the incoherent mass of Toronto fans turn on Matthews in the next 12 months.

Avs should figure out a way to get Matthews. Sans MacK and Makar… everything else is on the table. Give them Rants and Byram.

Good lord how do the Avs sell this new Toronto 'bite' GM on an extended Toews. Toews + Newhook + 1st.

The cap would be hell but waves of MacKinnon/Makar and Matthews/Byram would be a nightmare to play against.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I can not wait to watch the incoherent mass of Toronto fans turn on Matthews in the next 12 months.



Good lord how do the Avs sell this new Toronto 'bite' GM on an extended Toews. Toews + Newhook + 1st.

The cap would be hell but waves of MacKinnon/Makar and Matthews/Byram would be a nightmare to play against.

They’ll convince them to take Manson in the deal

 

[Ararana]

They’ll convince them to take Manson in the deal

Looking at Matthew's contract situation. Boy he is really going to have Toronto over a barrel with that NMC if they don't trade him before July 1st.

Dubas strikes again.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Looking at Matthew's contract situation. Boy he is really going to have Toronto over a barrel with that NMC if they don't trade him before July 1st.

Dubas strikes again.

Dubas basically single handedly destroyed the second contract by caving to all of their demands.

 

[Hasbro]

So Arizona is in turmoil, Toronto has to make changes, sounds like Winnipeg is making a purge, shaping up to be a decent buyers' market.

They’ll convince them to take Manson in the deal

Truculence!

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

So Arizona is in turmoil, Toronto has to make changes, sounds like Winnipeg is making a purge, shaping up to be a decent buyers' market.


Truculence!

The Avs will end up getting a bunch of over the hill role players while paying each one 250k too much

 

[Ararana]

So Arizona is in turmoil, Toronto has to make changes, sounds like Winnipeg is making a purge, shaping up to be a decent buyers' market.

And yet somehow MacFarland will have us still hoping Newhook grows into the 2C role next season.

 

[Hasbro]

The Avs will end up getting a bunch of over the hill role players while paying each one 250k too much

Like Kadri, Saad, Burakovsky, Toews, Kuemper, Nuke and Lehkonen?

Bunch of geezers!

 

[thedoctor]

He'd fit right in

Sadly yes.

Duchene is not currently a center, but played it in the past… he also isn’t capable of the role anymore. Just because a player played one way, years ago prior to injuries and age… doesn’t mean they can continue to play that way.

Schmaltz has shown zero ability in the last few seasons to play a top 6 center role. It is a huge risk of assets and a season to acquire a guy who hasn’t shown the ability. He’s a great wing, and there is value in that… he just does nothing to solve the 2C issue. He’d just be another guy in the ‘maybe it could work’ realm. Personally, not a fan of that option in a short Cup window.

Ok, first, Schmaltz is 5 years younger than Duchene, he's 27. I don't think that comparison works on the age level at all.

Other than that, a younger Duchene isn't a terrible comparison as a guy that can play both positions, though the talent level and profile is different. Guys like Marleau and Duchene on teams with center depth or even just guys that only work at center will shift to wing. Hell it happened here, RoR and Mack played wing for Stastny and Duchene for extended periods because we had a glut of centers and they worked best at wing. That didn't make Mack or RoR incapable of being centers again, it just meant they are also good at wing.

It is indeed a risk, but guess what, that's where this team is at. The cubbard is bare. The roster and star power are stacked in many ways but bad luck with Newhook, Landy, and Nuke has put us in the position of needing to fill holes in the top 6 without shedding talent. These are exactly the kinds of bets you have to make in this position: find an underutilized asset languishing somewhere and aquire them on the cheap.

I dunno if it's exactly Schmaltz, but y'all can keep dreaming about Crosby and Matthews and Lindholm and Bennett. Those guys have critical roles on their current (good) teams. The idea those assets would come at the kind of cost the Avs could pay while maintaining the rest of the core is laughable. The Avs have to find an option between the pipe dreams of Lindholms and the hopium of Monahans. Guys like Schmaltz are that class of asset.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sadly yes.

Ok, first, Schmaltz is 5 years younger than Duchene, he's 27. I don't think that comparison works on the age level at all.

Other than that, a younger Duchene isn't a terrible comparison as a guy that can play both positions, though the talent level and profile is different. Guys like Marleau and Duchene on teams with center depth or even just guys that only work at center will shift to wing. Hell it happened here, RoR and Mack played wing for Stastny and Duchene for extended periods because we had a glut of centers and they worked best at wing. That didn't make Mack or RoR incapable of being centers again, it just meant they are also good at wing.

It is indeed a risk, but guess what, that's where this team is at. The cubbard is bare. The roster and star power are stacked in many ways but bad luck with Newhook, Landy, and Nuke has put us in the position of needing to fill holes in the top 6 without shedding talent. These are exactly the kinds of bets you have to make in this position: find an underutilized asset languishing somewhere and aquire them on the cheap.

I dunno if it's exactly Schmaltz, but y'all can keep dreaming about Crosby and Matthews and Lindholm and Bennett. Those guys have critical roles on their current (good) teams. The idea those assets would come at the kind of cost the Avs could pay while maintaining the rest of the core is laughable. The Avs have to find an option between the pipe dreams of Lindholms and the hopium of Monahans. Guys like Schmaltz are that class of asset.

I mean finding a guy that legitimately plays the position should be the first requirement.

Also the Avs don’t have a ton of assets currently, but they can easily use the assets they have to find a competent enough 2C to compete with. Not someone they have to “Drouin”.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Did Matthews score any goals or points in the playoffs this season?

 

[henchman21]

Sadly yes.

Ok, first, Schmaltz is 5 years younger than Duchene, he's 27. I don't think that comparison works on the age level at all.

Other than that, a younger Duchene isn't a terrible comparison as a guy that can play both positions, though the talent level and profile is different. Guys like Marleau and Duchene on teams with center depth or even just guys that only work at center will shift to wing. Hell it happened here, RoR and Mack played wing for Stastny and Duchene for extended periods because we had a glut of centers and they worked best at wing. That didn't make Mack or RoR incapable of being centers again, it just meant they are also good at wing.

It is indeed a risk, but guess what, that's where this team is at. The cubbard is bare. The roster and star power are stacked in many ways but bad luck with Newhook, Landy, and Nuke has put us in the position of needing to fill holes in the top 6 without shedding talent. These are exactly the kinds of bets you have to make in this position: find an underutilized asset languishing somewhere and aquire them on the cheap.

I dunno if it's exactly Schmaltz, but y'all can keep dreaming about Crosby and Matthews and Lindholm and Bennett. Those guys have critical roles on their current (good) teams. The idea those assets would come at the kind of cost the Avs could pay while maintaining the rest of the core is laughable. The Avs have to find an option between the pipe dreams of Lindholms and the hopium of Monahans. Guys like Schmaltz are that class of asset.

The comparison works much more than you think it would around age. Duchene moved to wing in his last full season here. When he was 25/26. This is what rejuvenated his offense. Very similar to how Arizona discovered the same thing with Schmaltz in the Covid return season. Duchene was moved back to center by Ottawa where it failed until they moved him back to wing. From there he played wing until he got to Nashville. Where for a season and a half they tried to force him at center... which failed again. They accepted defeat and moved him back to wing where his offense came back. It is pretty common for players to be forced at center early in their careers only for teams to realize if they want the most value out of them for their skill sets, they have to put them to wing.

Also very common for centers to thrive at wing when moved there, much less common for wings to move to center and thrive. Schmaltz is a wing. He hasn't played center at a high level since his days in Chicago... and it wasn't a high enough level for Chicago to want to keep him (a team trying to compete at the time). On Arizona, a team in desperate need for any sort of center depth, they couldn't get him to play at a high enough level for them. So much so that they have had Travis Boyd in a top 6 role over Schmaltz. That should be a pretty clear signal of Schmaltz's ability to pivot a line.

The lack of assets is more of a reason to get this right. If they spend the assets for Schmaltz and it fails, the Avs are in a much, much worse position than they were prior to the move. They need to get a center and a guy who plays there consistently. I agree the the Bennett and Matthews types are pipe dreams (meth pipe dreams really). But going after guys like Mittelstadt who have shown ability to play center and produce would be a much wiser sort of decision. You at least get a guy who can play center... now if they can do it well enough on a contending team is a question and risk, but at least you know they can play center. Adding to that, the Avs are potentially losing the 3 and 4Cs as well this year. Leaving a huge void down the middle. Getting sure things in the middle of the ice is a better option than hopes and dreams that Schmaltz can play there since he did 5 seasons ago.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Like Kadri, Saad, Burakovsky, Toews, Kuemper, Nuke and Lehkonen?

Bunch of geezers!

Nah, they’ll get 5 Helms, it will actually be one Helm but they’ll pay him with 5 different contracts

 

[the_fan]

it’s settled then. CMac should trade for Matthews

 

[Alienblood]

This is not true. When Makar went down this season and the Avs had Toews/Byram/Girard in the lineup Bednar did not gravitate towards moving Girard. More often than not it was Byram shifting to the right.

Bednar realized Girard is even worse playing the right side and stopped moving him there.

Makar was brutally bad in that Blues series.

Would the Avs miss Makar if he was traded ? Dumb question yes but they don't when he is out of the lineup

I mean Nuke taking 49mil after having 1 season of top 6 play(and one good post season)is as market value as it gets.

He left money on the table to re sign with the Avs

 

[henchman21]

The meetings with the NHL and NHLPA on the CBA/84 games schedule will be interesting. This is basically the nugget the players can agree to that will potentially get the owners to lessen their stance on escrow and projections. The players will come in with the idea that it will increase HRR around 2.5% which would be enough to payoff the Covid escrow most likely. Now this would leave the window open for making a larger increase without escrow changes, but could extend the debt. So if the PA and NHL agree on that 84 game schedule, it could open the door to a 84-84.5m cap next season. If the NHLPA is willing to continue to eat escrow and maybe even increase it... ~85.5m could be in the cards.

The problem with the whole meetings is that the NHL holds all the cards. The players have to give and give things they haven't typically wanted to give on (84 game and escrow namely).