Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Off-season is in full swing

[the_fan]

Go Yotes!

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Avs will also win the next 6 Stanley cups and the All Star game format will be changed to Colorado vs the league...


At least, that's what you would believe from some posters here.


But not jokingly

The truth is somewhere in the middle, but some people only see the negative and some only see the positive. Just because you are on one side of the fence doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong

 

[Foppa2118]

PIT was brought up as an example of keeping your best players to go for it as long as you can. The difference with PIT is that Crosby and Malkin are Cs. Mikko is a W and his next contract will be a LOT of money to be taken by a winger.

You can build around a high end C and high end winger long term too.

That's the new model with wingers playing a bigger scoring role than they used to. Then you have the option to either load up a top line when you need it or spread out the depth.

The Avs have done it with Nate and Mikko. The Oilers have done it with McDavid and Draisaitl, though Draisaitl plays center a lot now. Toronto will do it with Matthews and Marner.

The Hawks built around Toews and Kane for a long time. Tampa did it with Stamkos and Kucherov and are still in the mix at 33 and 30 years old.

Washington built around Ovi and Backstrom and won the Cup when they were 33 and 30.

Boston had a dominant regular season with a 37 year old Bergeron and a 34 year old Marchand.

Players with lesser athleticism and skill can fall off from good to bad in their 30's, but if you have guys that were once top 5-10 players in the world, their fall off can just be from elite to great in their 30's, and still give you a chance to win with a smart move or two to build around them.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

You can build around a high end C and high end winger long term too.

That's the new model with wingers playing a bigger scoring role than they used to. Then you have the option to either load up a top line when you need it or spread out the depth.

The Avs have done it with Nate and Mikko. The Oilers have done it with McDavid and Draisaitl, though Draisaitl plays center a lot now. Toronto will do it with Matthews and Marner.

The Hawks built around Toews and Kane for a long time. Tampa did it with Stamkos and Kucherov and are still in the mix at 33 and 30 years old.

Washington built around Ovi and Backstrom and won the Cup when they were 33 and 30.

Boston had a dominant regular season with a 37 year old Bergeron and a 34 year old Marchand.

Players with lesser athleticism and skill can fall off from good to bad in their 30's, but if you have guys that were once top 5-10 players in the world, their fall off can just be from elite to great in their 30's, and still give you a chance to win with a smart move or two to build around them.

The Avs did it but Nate was on a really cheap contract at the time. The Oilers and Toronto haven't won yet with that contract structure. CHI's success was prior to Toews' and Kane's big contracts. BOS didn't win last year. WAS might be the exception.

What I am saying is it is very difficult for a team to win the SC when allocating that much money to a winger unless your Cs and Ds are on fairly cheap contracts. I never saw Mack's contract closing our window. I see Mikko's new contract most likely closing it unless CMac can find some great extra-value contracts in other players.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Avs will be relegated to the AHL after this season. Calder Cup window opening!

Don't listed to Pierce. He is a dreamer. He used to say that Bosser and Laine will be better then Rantanen. He is dreaming.

 

[MacKaRant]

I see Mikko's new contract most likely closing it unless CMac can find some great extra-value contracts in other players.

Maybe we should, you know, try drafting a few people who can contribute with ELCs?

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Maybe we should, you know, try drafting a few people who can contribute with ELCs?

That would certainly be a good place to start...unfortunately....

 

[ANewHope]

I remember some of the "window closing" stuff starting after the Vegas loss and having that as our best shot to win. IMO the whole contender thing is overrated. NHL playoffs aren't exactly predictable and there's a luck/momentum element that's hard to predict at the start of the season. If your a top 10 NHL team in the league you have a chance at the cup. You have the special teams and your contenders and you don't get a special team every year.

One thing that will be annoying is Sakic/C-Mac getting a pass and people using age/contracts etc. as the reason the "window" slammed shut and not because they just did a poor job. Last year should have been a contending season but they just handled things poorly even if they were dealt a bad hand. It'll be no different if RyJo/Drouin fail this year. They had the assets and space to make something happen and take a far less riskier approach. If Ritchie never has an impact for us that could have easily been traded for a very good depth piece that was affordable for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs did it but Nate was on a really cheap contract at the time. The Oilers and Toronto haven't won yet with that contract structure. CHI's success was prior to Toews' and Kane's big contracts. BOS didn't win last year. WAS might be the exception.

True, but we can probably agree the Avs are in a good position next year with Nate's new contract to possibly win if they don't have an injury season from hell and RyJo works out well at 2C.

Boston also could have won last year. Their regular season was incredibly dominant. Oilers and Leafs still have multiple years to try and win and prove this model is good too.

Chicago had a tougher time, but they also won their division, and finished 3rd overall two years into Toews and Kane's big deals, but lost to the Preds who went to the finals.

The Avs are also in a much better situation than past teams were, in the sense that the cap is about to take some big jumps. They had to build their current team under a multi year flat cap. Which means some of the long term deals they signed will overlap with a higher cap. Those past teams didn't benefit from this.

This will make salaries like Nate and Cale's, as well as future contracts like Mikko and Bo's a smaller percentage of the cap.

What I am saying is it is very difficult for a team to win the SC when allocating that much money to a winger unless your Cs and Ds are on fairly cheap contracts. I never saw Mack's contract closing our window. I see Mikko's new contract most likely closing it unless CMac can find some great extra-value contracts in other players.

Definitely know you weren't one to think the window would close with Nate. I think we view this topic somewhat similarly, but may just differ on the C/W thing.

But regarding the cheap C's and D's, I think that actually is part of their team building model, and why they can have success with this.

They rotate certain positions with stop gaps that some teams pay a high AAV for, and are really good at timing it so their trade value and AAV is a bargain, and they're the most motivated, so they get the best out of them in the 2 years or so they have them.

They do this with 2C (Kadri, RyJo, Colton?), 1G (Grubauer, Kuemper, Georgiev), 2W (Saad, Burakvosky, Drouin), and usually a top 4D (Toews?).

Girard's $5M and Bo's bridge is part of that as well.

As long as their pro scouts and front office can identify good players that fit the team well, this strategy allows them to spend more on their stars, so they get elite talent and enough depth to compete most years.

 

[JH21]

You can build around a high end C and high end winger long term too.

That's the new model with wingers playing a bigger scoring role than they used to. Then you have the option to either load up a top line when you need it or spread out the depth.

The Avs have done it with Nate and Mikko. The Oilers have done it with McDavid and Draisaitl, though Draisaitl plays center a lot now. Toronto will do it with Matthews and Marner.

The Hawks built around Toews and Kane for a long time. Tampa did it with Stamkos and Kucherov and are still in the mix at 33 and 30 years old.

Washington built around Ovi and Backstrom and won the Cup when they were 33 and 30.

Boston had a dominant regular season with a 37 year old Bergeron and a 34 year old Marchand.

Players with lesser athleticism and skill can fall off from good to bad in their 30's, but if you have guys that were once top 5-10 players in the world, their fall off can just be from elite to great in their 30's, and still give you a chance to win with a smart move or two to build around them.

Mackinnon can drive play on his line. As can Rantanen. It doesn't matter what position they play. We don't need elite centers when we have elite wingers.

Especially considering our defensemen drive the play more than any other team. Our offense starts from the backend. That's why keeping Toews longterm is a priority.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

True, but we can probably agree the Avs are in a good position next year with Nate's new contract to possibly win if they don't have an injury season from hell and RyJo works out well at 2C.

Boston also could have won last year. Their regular season was incredibly dominant. Oilers and Leafs still have multiple years to try and win and prove this model is good too.

Chicago had a tougher time, but they also won their division, and finished 3rd overall two years into Toews and Kane's big deals, but lost to the Preds who went to the finals.

The Avs are also in a much better situation than past teams were, in the sense that the cap is about to take some big jumps. They had to build their current team under a multi year flat cap. Which means some of the long term deals they signed will overlap with a higher cap. Those past teams didn't benefit from this.

This will make salaries like Nate and Cale's, as well as future contracts like Mikko and Bo's a smaller percentage of the cap.



Definitely know you weren't one to think the window would close with Nate. I think we view this topic somewhat similarly, but may just differ on the C/W thing.

But regarding the cheap C's and D's, I think that actually is part of their team building model, and why they can have success with this.

They rotate certain positions with stop gaps that some teams pay a high AAV for, and are really good at timing it so their trade value and AAV is a bargain, and they're the most motivated, so they get the best out of them in the 2 years or so they have them.

They do this with 2C (Kadri, RyJo, Colton?), 1G (Grubauer, Kuemper, Georgiev), 2W (Saad, Burakvosky, Drouin), and usually a top 4D (Toews?).

Girard's $5M and Bo's bridge is part of that as well.

As long as their pro scouts and front office can identify good players that fit the team well, this strategy allows them to spend more on their stars, so they get elite talent enough depth to compete most years.

I do believe the Avs are in a good position this year assuming the injury bug doesn't hit as bad as last season. However this year Mikko will still be on the same contract. I was talking about when he gets his new 12-13M contract. Yes the big increase in cap will be coming at the same time but the other teams will benefit from that as well.

You know I'm a big fan of Sakic/CMac and they have done really good identifying good extra-value players but there is only so much cap to go around. I'm afraid Mikko's next contract will be a back-breaker. I trust those guys though so I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. I like what they did this year within the constraint they had. There are a few risky moves but I am confident they could pay-off.

 

[Foppa2118]

I do believe the Avs are in a good position this year assuming the injury bug doesn't hit as bad as last season. However this year Mikko will still be on the same contract. I was talking about when he gets his new 12-13M contract. Yes the big increase in cap will be coming at the same time but the other teams will benefit from that as well.

You know I'm a big fan of Sakic/CMac and they have done really good identifying good extra-value players but there is only so much cap to go around. I'm afraid Mikko's next contract will be a back-breaker. I trust those guys though so I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise. I like what they did this year within the constraint they had. There are a few risky moves but I am confident they could pay-off.

It will be interesting to see how things play out. I tend to think they can pull it off, but there's still some uncertain variables that will play a big part.

Also worth pointing out Mikko still has the 6th highest cap hit at RW with his deal now while Nate has the highest at C. And they're still in a good spot.

I've started to believe they may have to lose Toews though. I used to think the choice was between Girard and Toews, but looking at 25-26 with a possible $92M cap, I'm starting to think the choice may be between Mikko and Toews. And Toews will be much easier to replace than Mikko.

They already have Byram who's built similarly and plays a similar cerebral two way style as Toews, and they've shown an ability to find good defenseman both in the draft and outside the organization, so there's a decent chance they can do it again if they need to.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

It will be interesting to see how things play out. I tend to think they can pull it off, but there's still some uncertain variables that will play a big part.

Also worth pointing out Mikko still has the 6th highest cap hit at RW with his deal now while Nate has the highest at C. And they're still in a good spot.

I've started to believe they may have to lose Toews though. I used to think the choice was between Girard and Toews, but looking at 25-26 with a possible $92M cap, I'm starting to think the choice may be between Mikko and Toews. And Toews will be much easier to replace than Mikko.

They already have Byram who's built similarly and plays a similar cerebral two way style as Toews, and they've shown an ability to find good defenseman both in the draft and outside the organization, so there's a decent chance they can do it again if they need to.

Yeah the Avs will have very tough decisions to make in the near future if they want to keep trying to win. My preference would be to go for it this year but then next offseason to do a quick re-tool. You give up a chance at the cup for a year or two but you can probably compete for a few more years.

 

[dahrougem2]

Sometimes I feel like people constantly spew the "window is closing" stuff so much so that when the year comes and it finally happens (this won't be for a long time IMO) they can finally say "see! Told you! Window slammed shut!"

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Sometimes I feel like people constantly spew the "window is closing" stuff so much so that when the year comes and it finally happens (this won't be for a long time IMO) they can finally say "see! Told you! Window slammed shut!"

I actually agree with this.

 

[the_fan]

I have no idea what else people want the Avs to do. I was one that wanted someone like Bertuzzi, but then realized if Avs signed him to 5 mill contract, or Tarasenko, they couldn’t get guys like Colton and Wood. Let’s say we got Tarasenko or Bertuzzi and RyJo, we would have a better top 6 but shitty bottom 6. That bottom 6 would be horrid. The cap is gonna go up in few years enough for the Avs to build a better team even if they don’t win the cup next year or two

 

[The Kingslayer]

Sometimes I feel like people constantly spew the "window is closing" stuff so much so that when the year comes and it finally happens (this won't be for a long time IMO) they can finally say "see! Told you! Window slammed shut!"

The window is open until Mikko goes to Montreal. Then shut.

 

[Avsboy]

Sometimes I feel like people constantly spew the "window is closing" stuff so much so that when the year comes and it finally happens (this won't be for a long time IMO) they can finally say "see! Told you! Window slammed shut!"

It’s because it’s easy to put blinders on and it takes balls to see the world half glass full when it’s set on fire

 

[the_fan]

The problem with the whole Avs window closing is…

 

[Richard Doll]

While Mac, Cale and Mikko are on this team, the window is NOT closed.

Trick is finding a full group of complimentary role players to fill out the team around them, but so long as those 3 are on the team, we are making the playoffs every year.

You make the playoffs, anything can happen from there.

 

[davalanche96]

Do you think Jack Evans (1.7 millions) 4C could be a good option ??

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

The window is open until Mikko goes to Montreal. Then shut.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Avs will also win the next 6 Stanley cups and the All Star game format will be changed to Colorado vs the league...


At least, that's what you would believe from some posters here.


But not jokingly

You're moving the goalposts to keep saying that you are right... You've spent the last 2-3 years saying the Avs had to go all in NOW because a Cup window is a short thing and the Avs window will close with Mac's contract.

The majority here was saying that the window wasn't gonna be 2 years but rather 4-5 years. In which we would be top, top contenders in the first few years, then would weaken a bit because of the cap but would definitely remain contenders for another few years afterward. You kept calling us names like blind fans, rosy glasses, to remain polite... We ALL agreed that a window isn't indefinite. The only difference was a small group including you saying it was gonna be very short and likely ending with Mac's contract while the majority was viewing it as more of a 5 years thing.

We've gone out of the first 2-3 years and are EXACTLY where we were predicting we would be. Weaker than 2 years ago but still contenders. And this downward slope will continue for another 2-3 years, at the end of which we will look back at an amazing run of 5-6 years that we were lucky to have been a part of. In which they will have won a Cup, or maybe two.

Yet somehow, you keep saying that you are right, that we are wrong, that we are homers, rosy colored blind fools, etc... I just don't get it... I think I need a break... I'll be back in a month or so...

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[chet1926]

Yikes, that's a really low-ball offer from ANA. The guy has had back to back 60+ pts seasons on one of worst teams in the league.

I don't think he has the numbers to get the 8 he wants, but ANA better be ready for 6.5 to 7 as I don't see any way an arbitrator goes lower than 6.5. 60 pts scorers typically get paid.