Prospect Info: 2023-2024 Rangers Prospects Thread (Prospect Stats in Post #1; Updated 05.22.2024)

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is the first I hear about it and straight-up knowing your takes from those I mentioned - I won’t put any weight in it until there’s a confirmation from an alternative credible source, no offense.

I'll be happy to share proof of the conversations I've had with an admin.

 

[kovazub94]

I'll be happy to share proof of the conversations I've had with an admin.

Wouldn’t change my position. The point about alternative credible source stands including the context that newly unfavorable view of the organization prevented Drury from obtaining or retaining a sought after prospect.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is the first I hear about it and straight-up knowing your takes from those I mentioned - I won’t put any weight in it until there’s a confirmation from an alternative credible source, no offense.

Eh theres no reason to doubt what he was told. Everyone has seen and knows that AK has communicated with prospects and no doubt their family.

At the same time, anything coming out of that end is going to be incredibly biased (the families/prospects, not AK himself.)

 

[kovazub94]

Eh theres no reason to doubt what he was told. Everyone has seen and knows that AK has communicated with prospects and no doubt their family.

At the same time, anything coming out of that end is going to be incredibly biased (the families/prospects, not AK himself.)

It could be equally biased on both ends.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Eh theres no reason to doubt what he was told. Everyone has seen and knows that AK has communicated with prospects and no doubt their family.

At the same time, anything coming out of that end is going to be incredibly biased (the families/prospects, not AK himself.)

I'm simply sharing what I am told and what I can share. When it comes to how people view this organisation, it's not a fact, it's simply the opinion of those people. There's no proving or disproving opinions. They're what they are: Opinions. To what degree you value their opinion and how much you think it matters, it up to everyone individually.

The views have changed positively since Drury took over, mostly due to the experience of the players in Hartford. But as with so many other instances, it takes time for a negative image to be completely washed away. The natural turnover and passage of time will do that almost on its own, but the overhaul initiated by Drury certainly helps.

The negative stories mostly stem from the Gorton/Davidson era. But they reverberate for a while still.

 

[mike14]

If theres whining about mistreatment, its coming from a place of entitlement. I don't know enough about the Grubbe situation to say anything one way or another but the other examples are all of kids who thought they were way better than they were and wanted the easy road. f*** Nils got to travel on it - He can't cry because he crashed his own car.

This is an interesting take (and not necessarily wrong), especially in the case of Andersson.
While it's been a while, my memory was that while he was upset about being cut after camp, he reported to Hartford happily enough. However, after an early injury he got 'homesick' for want of a better term, but was denied leave and so basically quit on the organization.
Compare that to KAM up and leaving for 'personal reasons' (which only ended up being 2 games). Was one player granted mental health leave and the other wasn't? Was it because one was established and the other wasn't, because one's time off didn't mean leaving the country, or has the organization actually learned that some of this stuff doesn't come from ' entitlement' but from people needing different things at different times?

In the case of Andersson it likely doesn't change his career trajectory due to his skating (and that's why he's a good AHLer but lost at NHL level), but probably highlights that there may be better ways to deal with prospects than just "suck it up because this is how we've always done it".

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is an interesting take (and not necessarily wrong), especially in the case of Andersson.
While it's been a while, my memory was that while he was upset about being cut after camp, he reported to Hartford happily enough. However, after an early injury he got 'homesick' for want of a better term, but was denied leave and so basically quit on the organization.
Compare that to KAM up and leaving for 'personal reasons' (which only ended up being 2 games). Was one player granted mental health leave and the other wasn't? Was it because one was established and the other wasn't, because one's time off didn't mean leaving the country, or has the organization actually learned that some of this stuff doesn't come from ' entitlement' but from people needing different things at different times?

In the case of Andersson it likely doesn't change his career trajectory due to his skating (and that's why he's a good AHLer but lost at NHL level), but probably highlights that there may be better ways to deal with prospects than just "suck it up because this is how we've always done it".

Theres a pretty big difference between "I need a few days off" and "I want to go home." Maybe the old FO wouldn't have granted leave (its way more common now than it was even just a few years ago.) The home sick stuff I mean, I have a hard time believing it would have been a problem if he were in the NHL so how much of it was him being home sick and him just not wanting to play in Hartford (i get it, it sucks.)

However, I think there may have been an injury which went neglected involved with Lias too, I forget in which case, yeah the org bears fault for that.

Nils and Kravtsov however can get bent, especially the latter.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Theres a pretty big difference between "I need a few days off" and "I want to go home." Maybe the old FO wouldn't have granted leave (its way more common now than it was even just a few years ago.) The home sick stuff I mean, I have a hard time believing it would have been a problem if he were in the NHL so how much of it was him being home sick and him just not wanting to play in Hartford (i get it, it sucks.)

However, I think there may have been an injury which went neglected involved with Lias too, I forget in which case, yeah the org bears fault for that.

Nils and Kravtsov however can get bent, especially the latter.

For the record: Lias Andersson had fractures in both his feet at the time. He wasn't even able to practice. he initially requested to rehab in New York, where he shared an apartment with Mika Zibanejad and had a good relationship with the neighbours in their apartment building, just 2 blocks from the Garden. That request was denied. He then asked to rehab in Sweden where he could be with his family. The same courtesy granted to Filip Chytil last month. That request was again denied. He felt himself isolated in Hartford, not able to practice, and as an injured player he wasn't part of team events (A f***ing stupid rule by the way) so he saw no other option for his own mental wel-being, than to pack his bags and leave.

I definitely think the Rangers have learned from these mistakes considering the way Chytil (and Miller as previously mentioned) have seen their situations handled.

Kravtsov's situation a few months earlier (September 2019) was also worth mentioning as he was called a quitter by Chris Drury in front of his teammates in Hartford while he was saying goodbye before exercising his clause to go back to Russia.

Also worth noting that weeks prior Tarmo Reunanen used the exact same clause(!) to go back to Finland in the first year of his ELC, and no one bat an eye. Let's remember that neither Kravtsov nor Reunanen did anything wrong in 2019. They exercised their European Assignment Clause, given to them during contract negotiations.

Lias Andersson and Vitaly Kravtsov were the wrong picks, and there's a high likelihood they would have failed to make an impact anyway. But that doesn't mean that the way they were treated isn't an issue.

There's plenty of blame to go around for how they themselves handled situations they were in, but this notion that "it doesn't matter because look where they are now" is nonsense. You want your team to treat their players the right way. No matter the circumstances. No matter who the player is.

Kravtsov's future attitude issues are bad, but I can't help but wonder how much his initial experience in 2019 played a part in that.

Honestly, out of all our 1st round picks, I blame Nils Lundkvist the most because nothing about his situation was mishandled. He just wanted to play. It's his right to ask for a trade of course, but out of all the issues we've had, that still doesn't sit well with me. They gave him every opportunity, a longer leash than anyone. And he still wanted out.

 

[nyr2k2]

Andersson did an interview with a journalist in Sweden who had known him forever. It was sympathetic to Andersson. In that interview Lias claimed he had serious injuries to both feet that made it almost impossible for him to get his skates on, and that he wanted to go to Sweden to get an opinion from a specialist and rehab. It wasn't explicitly stated from what I recall, but reading between the lines Andersson seemed to be implying that the Rangers didn't agree that he was injured and weren't treating him right. Seems a bit far-fetched to me, but who knows.

I also don't recall anything about him requesting leave for mental health reasons and being denied that leave. There was the story that Lias himself told about how he grew homesick and would stay up until all hours of the night waiting for his Swedish friends to get online and play Xbox with him. His dad gave an interview where he said something about the most important thing was him being happy again or whatever, and taken together a lot of people turned it into a mental health situation. I believe Lias himself disputed that notion.

I won't try to argue that the Rangers handled the Andersson situation well, but I think any assertions that they f***ed up or totally failed the kid are misplaced.

Kravtsov was much the same. Differences in the specifics, but basically you had two guys who had to deal with some pretty common types of adversity who simply didn't want to do it. The team could have done better but it's unlikely anything would have changed.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Andersson did an interview with a journalist in Sweden who had known him forever. It was sympathetic to Andersson. In that interview Lias claimed he had serious injuries to both feet that made it almost impossible for him to get his skates on, and that he wanted to go to Sweden to get an opinion from a specialist and rehab. It wasn't explicitly stated from what I recall, but reading between the lines Andersson seemed to be implying that the Rangers didn't agree that he was injured and weren't treating him right. Seems a bit far-fetched to me, but who knows.

I also don't recall anything about him requesting leave for mental health reasons and being denied that leave. There was the story that Lias himself told about how he grew homesick and would stay up until all hours of the night waiting for his Swedish friends to get online and play Xbox with him. His dad gave an interview where he said something about the most important thing was him being happy again or whatever, and taken together a lot of people turned it into a mental health situation. I believe Lias himself disputed that notion.

I won't try to argue that the Rangers handled the Andersson situation well, but I think any assertions that they f***ed up or totally failed the kid are misplaced.

Kravtsov was much the same. Differences in the specifics, but basically you had two guys who had to deal with some pretty common types of adversity who simply didn't want to do it. The team could have done better but it's unlikely anything would have changed.

I think what it always comes down to when discussing this, is that a lot of fans look to blame either the Rangers, or the player, for a situation escalating to the point where there is nothing to mend.

From what I've heard over the years, I think the fairer statement is that the situation could have been handled better by the Rangers, and the players could have responded better to the way they were treated, while those situations not necessarily leading to them being busts.

There's much more nuance to these stories than a simple black-or-white narrative. Saying the Rangers mishandled the situation, doesn't let the player off the hook IMO, and vice versa.

 

[eco's bones]

Since moving to the Kings organization Lias has turned into a very good AHL player. It's not nothing. He really wasn't that good with Hartford. I think a lot of us including myself thought he would become at least a good NHL player. It's not always that easy and his beginnings with us in a season of turmoil that had us blowing everything up probably didn't help him a lot. Those D+1, 2, 3, 4 years can be crucial to how a player develops. Looking at Kravtsov or even McIlrath who had at least two seasons completely f***ed up because of a knee displacement injury. Sometimes what the player does himself isn't helpful. In Lias and Vitali's cases I think immaturity played a role. Looking at Lias now I think he's gotten past that but whether he ever really finds a place in the NHL at this point is ?---it might help if he moved on to a weaker team. Some guys stick it out become role players. Brodzinski for us. DiGiuseppe in Vancouver.

 

[kovazub94]

It’s interesting that Drury who’s the only holdover (and more) from the Gorton / Davidson era was Hartford’s GM at the time.

 

[cheech70]

 

[2014nyr]

It’s interesting that Drury who’s the only holdover (and more) from the Gorton / Davidson era was Hartford’s GM at the time.

there's a lot that's interesting about him being the only holdover from that regime. he was gortons protege and right hand man, but when gorton goes down because the owner had a temper tantrum - jd walks on principle while drury takes over both of their roles. then he fires nearly everyone in hockey ops that he'd worked alongside for years.

the story of his tenure is still being written, but there's no doubt there were some shady moves pulled during that chaotic transition. i will say he seems to have upgraded the scouting dept. overall, feel like they've done pretty well in terms of finding value despite working not having many picks near the top of the draft. like the way they've used the later rounds to build org depth with guys that play with an edge but fit in todays nhl. most project at best to be middle/bottom 6 or 4-7 dmen sure, but you need a surplus of that type to win playoff rounds for 1. i think, more importantly, that tenacious/aggressive personality type are the most probable to do whatever it takes to grind their way into an nhl player. nhl players are assets, and the more you have in your org, the easier it is to address roster holes. i love rolling the dice on the undersized dynamo who hasn't played top competition, but reality is for every johnny hockey there's 100 michael st croix's. i would like them to prioritize skating a bit more moving forward, but overall the one area i've been very pleased under drury / with his changes is the scouts. there's been a lot of good, and then they added perrault. sure he more or less fell into their laps, but they may have hit the jackpot there.

 

[romba]

Nice, don't love our skilled players dropping them too often, easy to bruise/fracture a hand on the visor or helmet.

Othmann was smart, got a few good quick licks in before he had to eat a few and decided 'I'm good' lol

 

[GAGLine]

Minnesota (Lamb) is playing Penn State on FS1 right now.

 

[eco's bones]

Chmelar back in the lineup tonight Providence vs. Maine.

 

[NYR Viper]

Chmelar back in the lineup tonight Providence vs. Maine.

Can’t like this enough

 

[GAGLine]

Fortescue and a player for UNH ejected for fighting. That comes with an automatic 1 game suspension.

 

[2014nyr]

Fortescue and a player for UNH ejected for fighting. That comes with an automatic 1 game suspension.

literally had just seen that in their box score and was hoping there was a video. awesome to see the kid throwing hands even in college. hopefully they went no buckets...no point taking a 1 game sussy to smash your hands into a cage

 

[GAGLine]

literally had just seen that in their box score and was hoping there was a video. awesome to see the kid throwing hands even in college. hopefully they went no buckets...no point taking a 1 game sussy to smash your hands into a cage

It wasn't much of a fight. A few punches thrown with the gloves on. Not like you see in AHL or NHL. And since he'll probably be suspended for a game, I'd rather he didn't do it.

 

[2014nyr]

It wasn't much of a fight. A few punches thrown with the gloves on. Not like you see in AHL or NHL. And since he'll probably be suspended for a game, I'd rather he didn't do it.

if thats all it was i have a much bigger problem with that being called a fight and that it would cost a game than anything. still love to hear it though. discipline and knowing time/place can and will improve as he matures...he's 18 years old. you can't teach a mean streak though.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I'll be happy to share proof of the conversations I've had with an admin.

I don’t see why you should. Most posters here would agree that your word is your bond.
My advice would be not to respond to people who are argumentative.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

This is an interesting take (and not necessarily wrong), especially in the case of Andersson.
While it's been a while, my memory was that while he was upset about being cut after camp, he reported to Hartford happily enough. However, after an early injury he got 'homesick' for want of a better term, but was denied leave and so basically quit on the organization.
Compare that to KAM up and leaving for 'personal reasons' (which only ended up being 2 games). Was one player granted mental health leave and the other wasn't? Was it because one was established and the other wasn't, because one's time off didn't mean leaving the country, or has the organization actually learned that some of this stuff doesn't come from ' entitlement' but from people needing different things at different times?

In the case of Andersson it likely doesn't change his career trajectory due to his skating (and that's why he's a good AHLer but lost at NHL level), but probably highlights that there may be better ways to deal with prospects than just "suck it up because this is how we've always done it".

With Miller vs Andersson different GMs.

 

[mike14]

With Miller vs Andersson different GMs.

Drury was heavily involved with the Pack at the time...