NHL 2023-2024 Out of Town: Stanley Cup Playoffs II

[BTO]

True, but the key here is you can't sit back at any point with them and try to nurse a lead. Some passive 1-2-2 forecheck and they'll smell blood.

And you have to gain the offensive zone, that was the Bruins problem with the lack of overall speed up front. To a degree you have to beat them at their own game (loads of offensive zone-time).

I don't disagree. I'm just saying speed, mobility, relentless, transition, forecheck, possession, is a way to beat anyone, regardless of how they're built, not just Florida.

Also, I agree, you don't stop doing what was working to get you the lead just because you have it. But it's also not always a case of teams "sitting-back". Sometimes it's more a case of teams with the lead late don't pinch as much while the trailing team does. But mark me down for an aggressive forecheck rather that a 1-2-2 trap!

 

[goldenblack]

As good as the Panthers are, we're like a few breakaways from our top 6 guys going in from beating them. That's how I know we're good too.

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

As good as the Panthers are, we're like a few breakaways from our top 6 guys going in from beating them. That's how I know we're good too.

To some extent yes but the panthers definitely give their team more chances to win games then the B’s or Rags. We may only be 1-3 players away from being a contender but those players and the ones currently here need to play with intensity and drive to an equal or greater degree then Florida. No way to spin a sub 6 shot period and spending over double the time in your own zone as good unless you have 3+ goals to show for it.

 

[whitetape]

You can say that they're not heavy hitters all you want but they do finish every check. Certainly speed and relentlessness is one key to that, but they do hit, relentlessly. As someone else said, they're not lazy checkers who check with their sticks, like Boston is.

Also, you can say that mobile defensemen are key to beating a great forecheck, which is true, but a great forecheck can also defeat a mobile D. It's a matter who is better at it on any given play rather than a case of a mobile defense necessarily beating a relentless forecheck or a case of "we have a mobile D so that neutralizes their forecheck". Not like every single play is going to result in the D getting the puck out quickly. Some times they won't. Which is why the D also have to be able to take a hit because part of forechecking is hitting and part of dealing with it is dealing with getting hit.

As others here have noted, the Bruins didn't lose because they weren't hitting and were stick checking all the time. They had the third most hits per game in the regular season, and the Leafs' and Panthers' series were notably hit-heavy for both teams. The Bruins narrowly lost because the Panthers are a bit deeper up front and especially on D. They will probably beat the Rangers for the same reasons.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Again, breaking-out quickly, transitioning through the neutral zone well, getting possession in their zone and spending as much time in the offensive zone as you can is a recipe for beating anyone. But good forechecks tend to disrupt it.

Correct.

Might as well say scoring more goals than the other team is a great recipe for beating anyone.

 

[BruinDust]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying speed, mobility, relentless, transition, forecheck, possession, is a way to beat anyone, regardless of how they're built, not just Florida.

Also, I agree, you don't stop doing what was working to get you the lead just because you have it. But it's also not always a case of teams "sitting-back". Sometimes it's more a case of teams with the lead late don't pinch as much while the trailing team does. But mark me down for an aggressive forecheck rather that a 1-2-2 trap!

Correct.

Might as well say scoring more goals than the other team is a great recipe for beating anyone.

Why do teams sit back at all then?

It's hard to play the way Florida do for 60 mins. In a perfect world, yes, you want to go-go-go and just lay waste to your opponent in the offensive zone for the entire game. But that isn't realistic. Well executed passive 1-2-2 or 1-4 conserves a lot of energy.

For all the talk about the Blues heavy forecheck in 2019, when they had to lock it down and play passive defense, they did.

 

[BTO]

As others here have noted, the Bruins didn't lose because they weren't hitting and were stick checking all the time. They had the third most hits per game in the regular season, and the Leafs' and Panthers' series were notably hit-heavy for both teams. The Bruins narrowly lost because the Panthers are a bit deeper up front and especially on D. They will probably beat the Rangers for the same reasons.

Sure they did. Maybe if the off-ice officials counted "getting-hit" as a "hit" they did. In any case, the technical definition of a hit is "any body contact that results in the loss of possession of the puck by an opposing player". So, if you dump the puck into a corner and the D-man flings it around the boards, and then you plaster him against the boards then that's not, technically, a hit, even though that's what we all mean by "hitting".

Anyway I'm not saying Boston lost because they didn't hit enough, although that's partly true - when they hit it goes straight to their legs, always has and always will, and when they don't they become passive and reactive. But the idea that Florida is relentless on the forecheck just because they're fast rather than because they're both fast and hit is also wrong. They're relentless on the forecheck and they never, like never, pass-up on an opportunity to hit a guy. Boston passes-up hits all the time and tries instead to take away space with their sticks, all in the name of "better defensive positioning". Might work in the regular season but doesn't always work in the playoffs.

 

[PB37]

The Panther's forecheck is two-fold - they're super quick to pressure the first guy on the puck but they also are really good at anticipating where the outlet is and having someone already moving in on them before a pass is even made.

 

[BTO]

Why do teams sit back at all then?

It's hard to play the way Florida do for 60 mins. In a perfect world, yes, you want to go-go-go and just lay waste to your opponent in the offensive zone for the entire game. But that isn't realistic. Well executed passive 1-2-2 or 1-4 conserves a lot of energy.

For all the talk about the Blues heavy forecheck in 2019, when they had to lock it down and play passive defense, they did.

Beats me. But teams do tend to take less risks when they're ahead. And Boston used to be able to shut it down too. It's like everything I guess, there's a balance.

 

[BruinDust]

Beats me. But teams do tend to take less risks when they're ahead. And Boston used to be able to shut it down too. It's like everything I guess, there's a balance.

It's a copycat league. The Panthers of 2023 and 2024 are kind of like the anti-New Jersey Devils of the mid-1990s. More and more we'll see teams try to copy what they are doing and further emphasize pushing the pace and heavier forechecks even later into games and more often with a lead. Seems like they've weaponized the speed of the game better than anyone else.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Why do teams sit back at all then?

It's hard to play the way Florida do for 60 mins. In a perfect world, yes, you want to go-go-go and just lay waste to your opponent in the offensive zone for the entire game. But that isn't realistic. Well executed passive 1-2-2 or 1-4 conserves a lot of energy.

For all the talk about the Blues heavy forecheck in 2019, when they had to lock it down and play passive defense, they did.

Like you said, it's hard to play like Florida does.

Different personnel dictates different styles.

 

[BruinDust]

Like you said, it's hard to play like Florida does.

Different personnel dictates different styles.

100%. It's like having a pile of big sturdy but slower D-men and asking them to play man-to-man instead of zone. The personnel doesn't fit the system or style.

 

[Gee Wally]

It's a copycat league. The Panthers of 2023 and 2024 are kind of like the anti-New Jersey Devils of the mid-1990s. More and more we'll see teams try to copy what they are doing and further emphasize pushing the pace and heavier forechecks even later into games and more often with a lead. Seems like they've weaponized the speed of the game better than anyone else.

I hope so. As a style and pace I find it fun to watch.

 

[bobbyorr04]

Rags having a lot of the same problems as the B's

Florida is one of those teams that just makes other teams look bad. They're relentless. Will be interesting seeing them against whoever comes out from the West. Can't see NYR winning the next two

The Rags just have to win the next game (one game at a time) ...and anything can happen in game 7

..but they need their star players to start contributing on the scoreboard. Zibanejad and Panarin have been pretty quiet so far this series (I don't think either one has a goal against Florida)........it's do or die now, and time to wake up

 

[BruinDust]

I hope so. As a style and pace I find it fun to watch.

Isn't it? I don't care who wins the Panther-Rangers series just watching it for the pure entertainment value it's a very entertaining and exciting brand of hockey employed by the Panthers. They are never boring.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

As good as the Panthers are, we're like a few breakaways from our top 6 guys going in from beating them. That's how I know we're good too.

I think that's over-stating the case. The Bruins were never close to winning the series. Got the jump on a rusty Panthers in G1 and took advantage, and credit to them for that. But after that they got thoroughly outplayed in games 2 & 3. G4 they started well, then got overwhelmed again. It was a one-goal game, but Florida winning felt like the far more likely outcome once they got on top and if the Bruins have snatched it it would have been a steal. G5 the Bs ground out a good win. G6 they were competitive but the Panthers were that little bit better. They weren't miles away from forcing a G7, and I think Boston gave Florida a decent challenge, but overall the Cats won fairly comfortably.

The 23/24 Bruins were a good team. But not a great one. You said in another post that you thought they were arguably 2nd-best in the East, but I disagree. Not by a lot, but exclude the goaltending and I'd rank us equal 4th with the Leafs behind Florida, Carolina and NY. Add in the goalie factor and I think both the Rags and us jump the Canes. Which is still 3rd and arguably splitting hairs, but it does just reinforce that there's a bit of a gap to close to reach the very top. Generally the way I see it is making that jump in the next year or two is achievable, but far from a given. Going to need to recruit well and make some good decisions in terms of roster and playing style/tactics.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I think that's over-stating the case. The Bruins were never close to winning the series. Got the jump on a rusty Panthers in G1 and took advantage, and credit to them for that. But after that they got thoroughly outplayed in games 2 & 3. G4 they started well, then got overwhelmed again. It was a one-goal game, but Florida winning felt like the far more likely outcome once they got on top and if the Bruins have snatched it it would have been a steal. G5 the Bs ground out a good win. G6 they were competitive but the Panthers were that little bit better. They weren't miles away from forcing a G7, and I think Boston gave Florida a decent challenge, but overall the Cats won fairly comfortably.

The 23/24 Bruins were a good team. But not a great one. You said in another post that you thought they were arguably 2nd-best in the East, but I disagree. Not by a lot, but exclude the goaltending and I'd rank us equal 4th with the Leafs behind Florida, Carolina and NY. Add in the goalie factor and I think both the Rags and us jump the Canes. Which is still 3rd and arguably splitting hairs, but it does just reinforce that there's a bit of a gap to close to reach the very top. Generally the way I see it is making that jump in the next year or two is achievable, but far from a given. Going to need to recruit well and make some good decisions in terms of roster and playing style/tactics.

Yeah…but with all this, the Panthers don’t score very easily especially at 5v5. For all the talk of their dominance, how often do they blow anyone out. The way to beat a team selling out on the forecheck like they do is to counterattack. The way NOT to beat them is to think we need to get bigger and heavier.

 

[BB79]

Correct.

Might as well say scoring more goals than the other team is a great recipe for beating anyone.

That would be some PK Subban or Gary Galley level of in depth analysis

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Yeah…but with all this, the Panthers don’t score very easily especially at 5v5. For all the talk of their dominance, how often do they blow anyone out. The way to beat a team selling out on the forecheck like they do is to counterattack. The way NOT to beat them is to think we need to get bigger and heavier.

Yeah I don't think they're one of those truly dominant teams, at least not yet. Haven't even won a Cup yet. 2020 Tampa were better, or the Pens of 7-8 years ago in their prime. Florida are very good, incredibly well-tuned for playoff hockey, but they're a slayable dragon. I'd agree that heavier is not the answer, but a little more toughness or grit or whatever exactly you want to call it would help. The main thing though, as said up-thread, is speed with purpose, and the ability to sustain that for long periods game after game. I think that point really hit the nail on the head.

 

[Terrier]

Game 5 in Dallas is on.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Games getting haywire

 

[Terrier]

Oilers on the board, Nuge. First PP goal of the series.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Super soft penalty committed by Dallas against McDavid costs them a goal. That being said if Dallas can't put pucks behind Skinner they deserve to lose the series.

 

[Terrier]

2-nil Oilers, Nuge again, PP again.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Dallas really starting to struggle with Edmonton's speed. This is slipping away from them. Need to find a way to get the tempo of the game more back on their terms.