Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Gabriel426]

Beside the obvious of getting Makar and McD.

Trade Murray to get that Cap relief and just double Sammy salary to 3.6mil for 2 yrs. In short using Murray caphit to fund both Sammy and Woll. That will free up 2.5mil.

Trade TJ for picks as I doubt anyone is trading a Dman in return. Then use TJ money to sign Orlov. If Orlov wants more, as long as it is not over 6.5mil Sign him for 5-6yrs. Essentially using TJ and Holl caphit to sign an impact Dman with 500k to spare.

McCabe will be move down to 3rd pairing with Timmins or Gio, Lilly playing with Orlov and Schenn with Reilly. That’s a pretty good 7dcorps. All three pairings can move the puck, got speed and clear the net, not to mention physical.

Since ROR will be gone. Resign Acciari and Kampf and those two along with Lafferty are great bottom 6 players. Also bring back Brown to be 3rd line RW if he recovers on a prove me deal at 1.5mil. Then promote Holmberg, McMann and others to learn to play like those four in the bottom 6. Needs to finish checks, hound the opposing players and crash the net.

Trade JT for JT Miller. Miller is literally the opposite of JT and will fire up the boys.

Still missing a spot in the top 6 and ideally another heavy and speedy forward on the 3rd line too. With the remaining cap, I think at 8-8.5mil. Sign Tank for a season and solid winger to fill the 3rd line.

It won’t happened but it would be nice if it did

 

[Dekes For Days]

WN vs MM
87pts vs 99pts
40G vs 30G
28PPP vs 36PPP
15% additional ice-time for Marner. If you adjust to points per minute of ice time, Nylander would be at 100pts.

Not only are you comparing points in unequal games played, but you're picking out a career high for Nylander, and comparing it to the lowest pace Marner has had in years, and Marner is still exactly what I said - better offensively and defensively. Your last line is also wrong, and to be clear, most of the difference in ice time is penalty kill, which isn't particularly helpful to production.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

O'Reilly cost a 1st(23),3rd(23),2nd(24) plus a lower end prospect?

Dubas has really lost his mind.

Dubas' deadline strategy is to trade a 1st for an over the hill guy who cannot provide offense and makes the team slower.

Noice!!

Beside the obvious of getting Makar and McD.

Trade Murray to get that Cap relief and just double Sammy salary to 3.6mil for 2 yrs. In short using Murray caphit to fund both Sammy and Woll. That will free up 2.5mil.

Trade TJ for picks as I doubt anyone is trading a Dman in return. Then use TJ money to sign Orlov. If Orlov wants more, as long as it is not over 6.5mil Sign him for 5-6yrs. Essentially using TJ and Holl caphit to sign an impact Dman with 500k to spare.

McCabe will be move down to 3rd pairing with Timmins or Gio, Lilly playing with Orlov and Schenn with Reilly. That’s a pretty good 7dcorps. All three pairings can move the puck, got speed and clear the net, not to mention physical.

Since ROR will be gone. Resign Acciari and Kampf and those two along with Lafferty are great bottom 6 players. Also bring back Brown to be 3rd line RW if he recovers on a prove me deal at 1.5mil. Then promote Holmberg, McMann and others to learn to play like those four in the bottom 6. Needs to finish checks, hound the opposing players and crash the net.

Trade JT for JT Miller. Miller is literally the opposite of JT and will fire up the boys.

Still missing a spot in the top 6 and ideally another heavy and speedy forward on the 3rd line too. With the remaining cap, I think at 8-8.5mil. Sign Tank for a season and solid winger to fill the 3rd line.

It won’t happened but it would be nice if it did

For the millionth time, Tavares will not waive his no trade, give it up guys.

 

[thewave]

Not only are you comparing points in unequal games played, but you're picking out a career high for Nylander, and comparing it to the lowest pace Marner has had in years, and Marner is still exactly what I said - better offensively and defensively. Your last line is also wrong, and to be clear, most of the difference in ice time is penalty kill, which isn't particularly helpful to production.

Not significant enough to make much difference 82 vs 80 games. So you can adjust the TOI % to compensate. No biggie.

Career high for both Marner and Nylander actually so that's moot.

He is better defensively yes

He gets SH points. He collected 5

MM literally fell apart and had a mental breakdown vs FL. He was done, like if that were going back in time to Jake Gardiner or some other players that had lapses, he would have been booed out of town.

He does get 15% more TOI

The additional PP minutes more than compensate for his time killing penalties.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I think that's just recency bias from the last game. Matthews and Marner have both stepped up in critical moments, and quite frankly, while the one man shows are flashy and memorable, what we really need is Nylander working hard with his linemates at both ends of the ice throughout. Matthews and Marner are better players in both the regular season and playoffs, offensively and defensively. You yourself said you would choose Matthews out of them, so I don't know why you'd simultaneously say Nylander would be the only untouchable.

It really isn't Nylander is this team's Kessel. He doesn't play the game people like but he plays and produces when it counts. That is what I am basing my opinion on, when it counts. It's eerily similar to how the two were treated. Rielly & Nylander has proven literally this over the years but if you believe otherwise I am certain this conversation will not go any further. Eichel is a better player offensive and defensively but do you know who's also showing up for the Knights atm? Reilly Smith, Mark Stone, Barbashev, etc. We need more of that. I believe Nylander is that, I am not gonna argue regarding Marner & Matthews talent, but I am basing it purely on playoffs to go deep instead of fizzling in round two.

The biggest reason I would say Matthews is untouchable is due to his position but if I was looking based on just playoff performance which is what I even stated I'd be taking a hard look. Hence I believe Nylander should stay, marner goes

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not significant enough to make much difference 82 vs 80 games.

It's still different, and looks pretty dishonest to post the raw numbers without mentioning it, especially considering you went out of your way to discuss opportunity when it came to ice time (which you also kind of misrepresented by leaving out that the discrepancy was primarily PK time).

Career high for both Marner and Nylander actually so that's moot.

Last year was Marner's career year, with him pacing for 110 points. And, of course, there's a lot more to evaluating the offensive abilities of a player than just looking at their career year. There is 1.27 vs. 0.98 P/GP discrepancy between them over the past 3 years, for example. Every year, Marner has been better than Nylander offensively and defensively.

MM literally fell apart and had a mental breakdown vs FL.

Lol, no he didn't.

The additional PP minutes more than compensate for his time killing penalties.

Marner received 1 second less of PP time per game than Nylander this season.

 

[SantosHalper]

Sorry man, but there's absolutely no way in hell that an 80 pt lottery team has 12 guys that are 'untouchable'. All of those guys are absolutely moveable and there's a price for anyone. None of those guys you listed are some generational talents that can't be moved.

Seider is soon.

If Red Wings ever plans to move up, not everyone cannot be traded especially top-6 centers and top-4 D. Rest of them are potential depth pieces, essential pieces to keep the team cost effective. Cheap ELC and bridge deals.

Seider for Marner trade only improves the Leafs and makes the Red Wings worse than it's already is. Picks are only valuable assets Red Wings can afford to trade, without adding years to rebuild. And since the general consensus is that Leafs wants to do a hockey trades, then deals with the Red Wings are off the table.

 

[mapleleafs34]

WN vs MM
87pts vs 99pts
40G vs 30G
28PPP vs 36PPP
15% additional ice-time for Marner. If you adjust to points per minute of ice time, Nylander would be at 100pts.

-MM Gets more PP minutes
-Scores less goals
-4 Million dollars extra per season

-WN Generates more shots on net
-Can carry the puck and enter the zone better

It never looks good, he is very expensive for his level of production, gross overpay for sure.

Also, I hate the "Marner can kill penalties argument". If anything that's worse for us because then he's more gassed for even strength/PP minutes and more prone to mistakes.

 

[Gabriel426]

Also, I hate the "Marner can kill penalties argument". If anything that's worse for us because then he's more gassed for even strength/PP minutes and more prone to mistakes.

Better argument is MM is a better defensive player.

Lafferty actually got 4 SH goals and are not on the PK.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Seider is soon.

If Red Wings ever plans to move up, not everyone cannot be traded especially top-6 centers and top-4 D. Rest of them are potential depth pieces, essential pieces to keep the team cost effective. Cheap ELC and bridge deals.

Seider for Marner trade only improves the Leafs and makes the Red Wings worse than it's already is. Picks are only valuable assets Red Wings can afford to trade, without adding years to rebuild. And since the general consensus is that Leafs wants to do a hockey trades, then deals with the Red Wings are off the table.

Personally...I think our trade partner would be the Kings or someone in the west we are overlooking atm.

It will definitely have to be a good mix of players that will just work and also probably be more shutdown in the back end. A prime example would be Jacob Slavin...man it would've been nice to have a player of his ilk.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nylander is this team's Kessel. He doesn't play the game people like but he plays and produces when it counts.

It all counts, and Nylander doesn't really produce any better than the other two in critical moments. The difference is that when he does it, he gets praised, whereas when the other two do it, it tends to be more so what, do it again, that's what we pay you for, what about X and Y. How quickly we forget Matthews willing us back in the 4-1 game, Marner scoring the game winner to keep our season alive in game 4, etc.. You say Nylander is like Kessel. Well, this would be like if Pittsburgh had considered Kessel untouchable over Crosby and Malkin. Unthinkable.

Eichel is a better player offensive and defensively but do you know who's also showing up for the Knights atm? Reilly Smith, Mark Stone, Barbashev, etc.

And do you know who has still contributed more overall on their run, and who Vegas considers more untouchable than the likes of Smith and Barbashev? Eichel.

 

[thewave]

It's still different, and looks pretty dishonest to post the raw numbers without mentioning it, especially considering you went out of your way to discuss opportunity when it came to ice time (which you also kind of misrepresented by leaving out that the discrepancy was primarily PK time).

Splitting hairs here

Last year was Marner's career year, with him pacing for 110 points. And, of course, there's a lot more to evaluating the offensive abilities of a player than just looking at their career year. There is 1.27 vs. 0.98 P/GP discrepancy between them over the past 3 years, for example. Every year, Marner has been better than Nylander offensively and defensively.

He didn't hit 110. It was a good attempt though. I would credit him 105 or so though. Doesn't make much difference when you're paying per point.

MM $110,000 per point, mostly assists. $79,310 for William Nylander

Lol, no he didn't.

Well I don't know what to call all those giveaways but they were insane. So cute they made the fanbase puke.

Marner received 1 second less of PP time per game than Nylander this season.

Including playoffs? Where did you get that stat?

With William you're getting 85/90% of the performance at 40% savings + additional goals etc. You're not getting 40% performance increase from Marner over William for the money. No argument can be made.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Including playoffs? Where did you get that stat?

You've been talking about the regular season the whole time. NHL.com.

You're not getting 40% performance increase from Marner over William for the money.

Marner provides more surplus impact than Nylander.

 

[thewave]

You've been talking about the regular season the whole time. NHL.com.

Marner provides more surplus impact than Nylander.

That's flawed off the hop. He is generating his points with a Rocket winner. Let's think about that for a second. He requires the best goal scorer in the league to get those points.

That means if he is traded and paired with a lesser goal scorer, his pts expected will decline. Some basic logic stuff. That means his pts per $ will rocket up.

Not a good look

 

[Superstar]

I am unsure what the shift is but I'd be very shocked if there wasn't consequences tbh .

Also if this was any one of ours boys putting this quote they would be destroyed.

I wonder how much respect he felt while doing those handshakes...

 

[TMLAM34]

It’s nice to finally be done with Kerfoot and Holl.

Regarding the “core four”, I wouldn’t say any of them are safe. I wouldn’t actively shop them aside from Tavares but if someone came with an offer for any of Nylander, Marner and Matthews that I can’t refuse, see ya!

 

[Trapper]

It’s nice to finally be done with Kerfoot and Holl.

Regarding the “core four”, I wouldn’t say any of them are safe. I wouldn’t actively shop them aside from Tavares but if someone came with an offer for any of Nylander, Marner and Matthews that I can refuse, see ya!

You have to change the core. Some of your best players (core) need to have some nasty in them. Not robot or perimeter.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He is generating his points with a Rocket winner. Let's think about that for a second.

Put another way, a rocket winner is generating his goals with him. Let's think about that for a second.
Nylander actually spent a similar amount of time with Matthews this year, for the record.

 

[sunstersun]

At this point we need to lobby Toronto for cheaper taxes on hockey athletes.

 

[thewave]

Put another way, a rocket winner is generating his goals with him. Let's think about that for a second.
Nylander actually spent a similar amount of time with Matthews this year, for the record.

He played with Nylander his rookie year and got 40 goals. As a Rookie, when he went with Mitch for a bit after he took a step back. 34 and then 37 goals.

 

[shaner8989]

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Robertson-Tavares-Marner
Jarnkrok-Mcmann-Holmberg
Kampf-Lafferty-Accari

Brodie-Timmons
Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Liljegren
Hallowell

Woll
Samsonov

Holl not resigned
Kerfoot not resigned
O’Reilly not resigned unless 1 year cheap
Bunting walks
Murray traded

The backend still sucks. Needs upgrading

 

[Dekes For Days]

He played with Nylander his rookie year and got 40 goals. As a Rookie, when he went with Mitch for a bit after he took a step back. 34 and then 37 goals.

What are you even talking about? Not only is 34 goals in 62 games and 37 goals in 68 games better than 40 goals in 82 games, but he also didn't play with Marner in either of those years. He played primarily with Nylander/Hyman in year 2, and Kapanen/Johnsson in year 3.

 

[thewave]

What are you even talking about? Not only is 34 goals in 62 games and 37 goals in 68 games better than 40 goals in 82 games, but he also didn't play with Marner in either of those years. He played primarily with Nylander/Hyman in year 2, and Kapanen/Johnsson in year 3.

Oh yeah you're right. He did 34 goals in 63 games with Nylander the second year. Thanks for the help, so yes my point is Matthews scores so long as you get him the puck. Nylander can do that as well. That's pretty much the point here right. Marner is not some hockey god on ice. He just isnt.

 

[sunstersun]

There's no universe where we don't ship one of Nylander, Marner, Matthews out.

I won't watch a minute of regular season hockey. I'll tune into the elimination game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh yeah you're right. He did 34 goals in 63 games with Nylander the second year. Thanks for the help, so yes my point is Matthews scores so long as you get him the puck. Nylander can do that as well. That's pretty much the point here right. Marner is not some hockey god on ice. He just isnt.

Matthews scores with anybody, but scores better with Marner. Elite players playing together help each other. It is not this one way street of leeching unearned points off of Matthews like you seemed to imply. Nobody said Marner is some hockey god. They're just giving him the respect he deserves, representing him accurately, and acknowledging his importance to the team.