Post-Game Talk: 2023-2024 Leafs Roster/Changes/Turnovers & Replacement(s)

[Rob Brown]

Luke Schenn 100%.

If you think back to someone Schenn’s comments during the second round, it’s pretty clear. He seemed confused at the mentality.

Schenn is someone we need to keep around. He and Rielly were tremendous start to finish in the playoffs.

Jake McCabe never played in the playoffs before this year and wasn’t particularly good in the playoffs either. Arguably was our worst player after Justin Holl, which is disappointing given how good he was in the regular season with us

What comments by Schenn in the 2nd round in particular?

 

[Gabriel426]

So I read that many players were blunt about the team issues - giving me a lot of hope for positive change - then, 10 minutes later, I read that the core players felt that Shanny was bringing them back. This team is putting shambles in my brain.

Well what do you want Shanny to say to them. I will trade at least one of you, sign extension now.

If anything, let AM and Willie sign then discuss trading them and/ or JT and MM. can’t really do anything until AM and Willie are either signed or traded away.

 

[leafers]

Minor tweaks needed, let’s not get crazy with major changes. This is still the most talented team we’ve had and it only took 100+ years.

 

[thusk]

Playoffs beside this year was really at most 7 more games. Don’t think that’s a huge difference.

You have to come to the realization that our guys can’t do it collectively and by taking just one of them away probably won’t work.
Funny you mentioned the Caps since they only kept Ovie and Backstorm from their core. While Ovie and Backstorm seem to actually played in playoffs games instead of disappearing and give up the pucks in elimination games. They also would owe up not playing well, which means they know they need to be better than thinking if only Sid was not in their division, they would had won Cups.

I don’t understand why any sane person would want to run it back with the top three guys thinking it will be different results.

Top 3... i talked about top2

Around who leafs should built for next 8-9-10 season? Not just in the next one or next 2...

Tavares right now is probably a 7M player whos paid 11with a nmc and we cant do anything... we all know this and we stick with... removing people 1 of 2 key piece because of his salary will not help the team at all...

 

[Gabriel426]

Top 3... i talked about top2

Around who leafs should built for next 8-9-10 season? Not just in the next one or next 2...

Tavares right now is probably a 7M player whos paid 11with a nmc and we cant do anything... we all know this and we stick with... removing people 1 of 2 key piece because of his salary will not help the team at all...

1. Moving any of them doesn’t mean getting picks back. They are getting players back and those players are not Lafferty or Kampf level most likely top 6 players who can score.
2. Why talk about 8-9-10 seasons down the line?
Maybe in two years Drai and McD come over via free agency. Maybe this summer, MM is traded for Toffoli and Andersson from Flames and Willie for JT Miller and AM for 2nd overall, next year 1St and Zergas from the Ducks.
3. Trading them doesn’t mean dumping them. Quality players will come back our way.

We are Leafs fans not AM, MM, JT or Willie fans. Logo in the front. Vegas won more playoffs rounds than the Leafs since they came in 5-6 yrs ago on a whole bunch of left over and unwanted players. They also made the playoffs every year.
Krakens got as far as the Leafs and they are only in their 2nd year with a whole bunch of leftover and unwanted players.

Are you telling me that Leafs are so special to the point that they need not one, not two but THREE 10mil plus players in order to have a future and make the playoffs?

No doubt all four of them are great players but they are all complementary players not players who can lead a team or put a team on their shoulder and march on.

I don’t see how Toffoli is worse than Willie. Even though Willie is more talented
I don’t see JT Miller being worse than MM in terms of overall impact, even though MM is more talented.
I don’t see how ROR as 2C is worse than JT being 2C.

Minor tweaks needed, let’s not get crazy with major changes. This is still the most talented team we’ve had and it only took 100+ years.

Talented team on paper.
Gilmour Leafs and Sundin Leafs will beat the current Leafs.

 

[LeafsFan89]

Maybe in two years Drai and McD come over via free agency. Maybe this summer, MM is traded for Toffoli and Andersson from Flames and Willie for JT Miller and AM for 2nd overall, next year 1St and Zergas from the Ducks.

You think Anaheim is going to give that up for 1 year of 11.6M, plus a next contract of like 12-15M x 7 contract for a guy with wrist issues the last 2-3 years and doesn't show up in the playoffs?

I do agree with otherwise - re mindset vs skill.

 

[Gabriel426]

You think Anaheim is going to give that up for 1 year of 11.6M, plus a next contract of like 12-15M x 7 contract for a guy with wrist issues the last 2-3 years and doesn't show up in the playoffs?

I do agree with otherwise - re mindset vs skill.

I was making example.

Like when we are talking about trading our top guys, it will most likely be 1st line players coming back or even the 2nd overall pick is Fantilli or Carlsson who can be in the top 6 this year and 1st line player the following year.

It won’t be cap dump and getting crap in returns like the Kessel and Dion trade.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Moving $7mm doesn't do that.

No, but moving 11 helps.

 

[hockeywiz542]

What comments by Schenn in the 2nd round in particular?

Luke Schenn discusses what the Leafs can do to take the next step

TSN

May 15, 2023

During end of season media availability, Luke Schenn chats about his second stint with the Toronto Maple Leafs, and how the team can take steps to get closer to the Stanley Cup.

 

[ICE FIRE]

Sorry I can't make a comment on your changes because as soon as I saw Nylander on the untouchable list I could not take it seriously.

 

[thusk]

1. Moving any of them doesn’t mean getting picks back. They are getting players back and those players are not Lafferty or Kampf level most likely top 6 players who can score.
2. Why talk about 8-9-10 seasons down the line?
Maybe in two years Drai and McD come over via free agency. Maybe this summer, MM is traded for Toffoli and Andersson from Flames and Willie for JT Miller and AM for 2nd overall, next year 1St and Zergas from the Ducks.
3. Trading them doesn’t mean dumping them. Quality players will come back our way.

We are Leafs fans not AM, MM, JT or Willie fans. Logo in the front. Vegas won more playoffs rounds than the Leafs since they came in 5-6 yrs ago on a whole bunch of left over and unwanted players. They also made the playoffs every year.
Krakens got as far as the Leafs and they are only in their 2nd year with a whole bunch of leftover and unwanted players.

Are you telling me that Leafs are so special to the point that they need not one, not two but THREE 10mil plus players in order to have a future and make the playoffs?

No doubt all four of them are great players but they are all complementary players not players who can lead a team or put a team on their shoulder and march on.

I don’t see how Toffoli is worse than Willie. Even though Willie is more talented
I don’t see JT Miller being worse than MM in terms of overall impact, even though MM is more talented.
I don’t see how ROR as 2C is worse than JT being 2C.


Talented team on paper.
Gilmour Leafs and Sundin Leafs will beat the current Leafs.

1-just to start your trade are irrealistic

A-Matthews will not resign for a rebuilding team and anaheim will never give half for a rental

B- I dont see why vancouver should trade miller for a worst player who will ask much more or hit free agency

Toffoli is nothing else than something betwern bunting level and hyman...

2- if you trade away all matthews, marner... i dont think draisaitl and mcdavid will have a really big interest to come in toronto

3-And for sure having a 30 y/o foward with a like an half of pts by game (78 playoff game) will have so much more impact than a ppg playoff player whos also the best defensive winger of NHL

When youre thinking than the grass is always greener at your neighbor...

 

[Gabriel426]

1-just to start your trade are irrealistic

A-Matthews will not resign for a rebuilding team and anaheim will never give half for a rental

B- I dont see why vancouver should trade miller for a worst player who will ask much more or hit free agency

Toffoli is nothing else than something betwern bunting level and hyman...

2- if you trade away all matthews, marner... i dont think draisaitl and mcdavid will have a really big interest to come in toronto

3-And for sure having a 30 y/o foward with a like an half of pts by game (78 playoff game) will have so much more impact than a ppg playoff player whos also the best defensive winger of NHL

When youre thinking than the grass is always greener at your neighbor...

Before the Tkachuk trade, nobody believed Tkachuk can get a 1st rounder, Weegar and Hubie.

Realistic or not, my examples are just to show that AM, MM, Willie and JT are not cap dump and when and if they are traded, quality players will return.
The fact that you rate them so highly just prove my point.

The point is to win the Cup and not having the most talented players on a team that is just a playoff team.

Logo in the front not name on the back.

If they all come back, that’s fine, just show up in playoffs and win. But if they lose again, stop with the excuses of they played great, just got goalied, didn’t get enough bounces….bc every team who loses in the playoffs always have the same excuses.
Take accountability like those Celtics players who said, they didn’t show up, they embarrassed themselves, the team and the fan base, they should have done better, bc by admitting that, it is the first step to solving problems and making improvements. By building narratives like being goalied, not getting bounces…. are just another way of saying I did my best, don’t blame me for losing.

 

[thusk]

Before the Tkachuk trade, nobody believs Tkachuk can get a 1st rounder, Weegar and Hubie.

Realistic or not, my examples are just to show that AM, MM, Willie and JT are not cap dump and when and if they are traded, quality players will return.

Huberdeau and weager was pending ufa...exactly like matthews and nylander

And they trade huberdeau because he wanted the same kind of contrat than Barkov and florida was not ready for it

 

[Gabriel426]

Huberdeau and weager was pending ufa...exactly like matthews and nylander

And they trade huberdeau because he wanted the same kind of contrat than Barkov and florida was not ready for it

Like I said, nobody thought Tkachuk can get Hubie, Weegar and a 1st.

Tkachuk was a RFA, who completely dictated where he wanted to go.

Honestly, what is your point? Is it AM, MM, Willie are not tradable or will get crap in return like Kessel trade or that you just can’t have your idols AM and MM leave the Leafs? Bc if your argument is that the Leafs won’t even make the playoffs without AM, Willie and MM, I got news for you, as long as 1st line players are coming back, they can and they will, lol.

 

[mydnyte]

bored watching the game, so, came up with a few Marner proposals... not sure if i got sun stroke today, or some are decent ideas.
Either looking to add an impact player that hasnt broken out yet, or like value
CBJ : Laine & Peeke
Det: Seider
Buf: Power and a pick
Buf: Dahlin (dont think that one is as possible)
Nas: Josi (he's still one of the best, and Nas has no offense)
Winn: Scheifele (if willing to extend)
PhI: Provorov and Laughton
Phi: Provorov and Konecny ...we add Brodie
Phi: Provorov and Hart ...We add Samsonov
StL: Kyrou and a pick
StL: Paryko and #25
Chi: Jones 25% retained and a pick

enough for now ...hope a few seems decent to more than me,

 

[centipede2233]

I feel like because Chicago landed bedard, if Toronto wants to move marner, Chicago would be a great trading partner. It would make sense for both teams.

 

[thewave]

I feel like because Chicago landed bedard, if Toronto wants to move marner, Chicago would be a great trading partner. It would make sense for both teams.

How? Who are they giving us for Marner?

 

[centipede2233]

How? Who are they giving us for Marner?

Seth jones 20% retained plus plus , they have a 19th overall pick this draft and recent 1st riders drafted, they have the means to do it

 

[Gabriel426]

Seth jones 20% retained plus plus , they have a 19th overall pick this draft and recent 1st riders drafted, they have the means to do it

That sounds more like a trade for JT, as in two years, Hawks will have more money to spend and sign UFAs. While sending away the last of their long contract.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I was listening to the Chris Johnston show yesterday and supposedly Shanny is behind the core 4, after they spoke with Shanny they had the impression they were all coming back.

They also dropped more hints that Treliving is the front runner.

I'm starting to wonder are the major changes going to be behind the bench and in net rather than up front?

More specifically if Treliving is the guy, and it certainly sounds like that's most likely at this point, does Treliving target Markstrom?

Could we see a Samsonov/Markstrom trade?

Would it be fair to Samsonov? no, not at all he had a great regular season but that's the thing he had a great REGULAR season.

When the playoffs hit he played in 9 games, got hurt in the 9th game and allowed 3+ goals 6 times.

He did not establish himself as a #1 goalie.

Beyond that, as I said he got hurt, and unless I missed it we don't know how bad so it's possible you have to replace him regardless.

Either way if Treliving is the guy I wonder if he tries to bring in Markstrom.

Another guy I wonder about is Toffoli or Lindholm, you have to replace both Bunting and Kerfoot, Knies can replace one but you still need to replace the other, and even with Knies he suffered a concussion and those are unpredictable.

 

[thusk]

Like I said, nobody thought Tkachuk can get Hubie, Weegar and a 1st.

Tkachuk was a RFA, who completely dictated where he wanted to go.

Honestly, what is your point? Is it AM, MM, Willie are not tradable or will get crap in return like Kessel trade or that you just can’t have your idols AM and MM leave the Leafs? Bc if your argument is that the Leafs won’t even make the playoffs without AM, Willie and MM, I got news for you, as long as 1st like players are coming back, they can and they will, lol.

Just the fact they are ufa and having full control of their destiny, will be hard to get all star player for...especially whe you consider Matthews want to wait before talking about extension... it will be the same thing if he traded... so you will get value for a rental Matthews before his NMC start. Forget 2nd overall pick, zegras or whatever for a rental. Just come back in the reality

So at the end, nothing you will get for Matthews will making you a better team. If leafs trade marner, Matthews is gone too...

So leafs have 2 choice, stay with matthews and marner and continu to try on playoff
or
Try to get a team who can as much finishing on bottom of the league than fighting for a playoff spot and maybe surprising in playoff

Choice is pretty easy

 

[HockeyVirus]

I can accept if you think no matter how it happened you think change is good, but if you are saying Dubas was absolutely terrible and/or can't comprehend that he wasn't fired due to accountability but power struggles... I can't respect your opinion

 

[notDatsyuk]

Are you starting a crusade to state Willie is not our saviour bc most of us know that already, lol.

He's been coming up with these ridiculous takes about Nylander for a while. Best to just ignore him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I won’t look at GM to be the be all and end all.
It is not like the whole front office is gone.

JT should be the one to get traded but for some reason everybody think he is staying bc of his NMC. Not like other players with NMC didn’t get moved.

If AM and Willie resigned, and JT won’t waive, MM is the odd man out. But if both AM and Willie won’t resign, MM will stay.
Either way, I think if they have a target, pretty sure that target is not as good as AM or MM or Willie, thus a proposed deal with that team will most likely be the target plus and the plus will determine if AM or MM or Willie going the other way.

The difference is that others have been willing to waive their NMC. JT and his wife don't want to - they are home and want to stay here.

The fact that it would probably cost us a lot in retention and sweeteners to get anyone to take him is beside the point.

 

[notDatsyuk]

nobody is denying what you said. Nobody here thinks Willie is our answer. I really don’t understand where you get the idea that people here think Willie is the answer.


No doubt about it. Those guys will never change as long as they are together here. Quite disappointing that the MGT wasn’t really to pay up to surround them with proper vets from the beginning.

Nobody thinks Willy is the answer, just that he's closer to it than either Marner or Tavares.

Yes, it would have been much better to "surround them with proper vets from the beginning", but the Tavares signing basically made that impossible.