2023-2024 EPL Season

[spintheblackcircle]

Journalists don't have some magic obligation to give a team heads up to get ahead of a story that's coming out.

ManU is upset with the content of an interview in the Serbian press.

So they punish British papers.

 

[Savant]

I'll wait for you to show Haaland's refusal to leave the pitch after a red card.

Are we saying this is better?

Do you not see any similarity in the incidents?

PL supposedly was cracking down on abusing officials, (sent out a memo a week or so ago I think) does this not qualify? Or are they cracking down on taking a few extra seconds to leave the pitch? If the line being drawn is “must be red carded first” then they should clearly state that so we know players can abuse the refs as long as they are active participants in the game.

 

[Jussi]

Journalists don't have some magic obligation to give a team heads up to get ahead of a story that's coming out.

They have an obligation to ask the subject of their story for a comment. That is standard journalistic practice. In Finland, these journalists/medias would've been reprimanded by the Council of Mass Media for failing to comply with those standards: Council for Mass Media in Finland - Wikipedia

 

[hatterson]

They have an obligation to ask the subject of their story for a comment. That is standard journalistic practice.

They absolutely do not have an obligation to do that. It's generally a thing they do, but it's absolutely not a hard rule.

They have journalistic integrity obligation to ensure their information is accurate. Asking for comment is often one way of doing this, but it's not required by any stretch.

 

[Jussi]

They absolutely do not have an obligation to do that. It's generally a thing they do, but it's absolutely not a hard rule.

They have journalistic integrity obligation to ensure their information is accurate. Asking for comment is often one way of doing this, but it's not required by any stretch.

Yes it is. At least it is over here. But, as I said, British journalism and standards...

 

[bluesfan94]

Are we saying this is better?

Do you not see any similarity in the incidents?

PL supposedly was cracking down on abusing officials, (sent out a memo a week or so ago I think) does this not qualify? Or are they cracking down on taking a few extra seconds to leave the pitch? If the line being drawn is “must be red carded first” then they should clearly state that so we know players can abuse the refs as long as they are active participants in the game.

Yeah, one was an on field, in game incident following a red card where VVD refused to leave the pitch in order to abuse the official and the other was a post-game tweet. But by all means, find something more to complain about.

Yes it is. At least it is over here. But, as I said, British journalism and standards...

It might be a common practice but it is by no mean a standard, nor should it be.

IPSO Blog: Do journalists have to contact people before they publish a story about them?

 

[Savant]

Yeah, one was an on field, in game incident following a red card where VVD refused to leave the pitch in order to abuse the official and the other was a post-game tweet. But by all means, find something more to complain about.


It might be a common practice but it is by no mean a standard, nor should it be.

IPSO Blog: Do journalists have to contact people before they publish a story about them?

Are you saying Haaland did not abuse the official on the field?

 

[bluesfan94]

Are you saying Haaland did not abuse the official on the field?

No, I am not saying that. And in fact, the team got fined as part of what happened on the field.

Listen, if you want to admit you don't understand the difference between refusing to vacate the field while yelling at the ref after a red card was given and confirmed and what happened in the City game, that's fine, just own it. For what it's worth, I would have been fine suspending Haaland for his social media post, too.

If players were getting suspended for every time they surround the ref, that would be a different scenario. But they aren't. What Haaland did on the field happens in a ton of matches. He, and a couple other City players, should have gotten yellows for it. But to equate that to Van Dijk getting carded, going at the ref during the VAR check, refusing to leave the pitch, and continuing to abuse the ref is asinine.

 

[Savant]

No, I am not saying that. And in fact, the team got fined as part of what happened on the field.

Listen, if you want to admit you don't understand the difference between refusing to vacate the field while yelling at the ref after a red card was given and confirmed and what happened in the City game, that's fine, just own it. For what it's worth, I would have been fine suspending Haaland for his social media post, too.

If players were getting suspended for every time they surround the ref, that would be a different scenario. But they aren't. What Haaland did on the field happens in a ton of matches. He, and a couple other City players, should have gotten yellows for it. But to equate that to Van Dijk getting carded, going at the ref during the VAR check, refusing to leave the pitch, and continuing to abuse the ref is asinine.

A fine to Man City is meaningless.

I am owning that I don’t think there should be a difference.

As recently as November 22, Webb announced they would be cracking down on abusing officials I think this was posted a few pages back. This is abusing an official.

The captain can talk to the ref. Haaland is not the captain. I don’t think you are remembering the Virgil request like I am, and I could be wrong. He was allowed to stay on the field while VAR was reviewing. Yeah he told the ref that he didn’t like the call on the way out but I think “refusing to leave the field” is really dramatic here. Virgil waited until he was on the sidelines before emoting like Haaland did. I think Haaland, on the field, acted worse to the ref compared to Virgil; but again I acknowledge that could just be my opinion.

If we are drawing the line at the preceding red card, sure; but I don’t think that makes a ton of sense. I also don’t think it makes a ton of sense that less than a month after stating there is going to be a crackdown on ref abuse, this happens without suspension; but again that could just be me. But again I also would have ignored the social media thing and you wouldnt have so different strokes for different folks.

 

[Jussi]

It might be a common practice but it is by no mean a standard, nor should it be.

IPSO Blog: Do journalists have to contact people before they publish a story about them?

I disagree but that that is because I'm used to having it strictly enforced in my country. And, as I said, Man City have the same approach.

BTW United haven't banned anybody from publishing bullshit. The press are free to write.

They have only banned idiots from asking about the shit they publish at the press conference.

 

[hatterson]

A fine to Man City is meaningless.

I am owning that I don’t think there should be a difference.

As recently as November 22, Webb announced they would be cracking down on abusing officials I think this was posted a few pages back. This is abusing an official.

The captain can talk to the ref. Haaland is not the captain. I don’t think you are remembering the Virgil request like I am, and I could be wrong. He was allowed to stay on the field while VAR was reviewing. Yeah he told the ref that he didn’t like the call on the way out but I think “refusing to leave the field” is really dramatic here. Virgil waited until he was on the sidelines before emoting like Haaland did. I think Haaland, on the field, acted worse to the ref compared to Virgil; but again I acknowledge that could just be my opinion.

If we are drawing the line at the preceding red card, sure; but I don’t think that makes a ton of sense. I also don’t think it makes a ton of sense that less than a month after stating there is going to be a crackdown on ref abuse, this happens without suspension; but again that could just be me. But again I also would have ignored the social media thing and you wouldnt have so different strokes for different folks.

Just to be clear, under the actual rules of the game, the captain has absolutely no *right* to talk to the official. The captain exists so that the referee has a point of contact among the players if *he* needs to say something to *them*. Beyond that it's entirely up to the ref what he wants to allow.

In regards to the VVD situation, he was handed a DOGSO red. While VAR was checking it, he remained on the pitch as he is absolutely allowed to do. During that time the referee was informing him on what happened and letting him know if it was confirmed he'd have to leave immediately. The referee communicated with him during that process and even let him know that the fact it was DOGSO was upheld and they were just checking offside and such, meaning he gave VVD warning of the decision about to come. Then the VAR check completed and the referee confirmed that to VVD and told him to leave the pitch. VVD them spent ~15-20 seconds yelling at the official before leaving and then spent additional time on the sidelines yelling at the fourth official.

I would love to see Haaland (or others) suspended for going at a ref after a bad call that aggressively, but the simple fact is that they haven't done that or set that as a precedent and it's fundamentally different than the VVD situation because Haaland hadn't been shown a red and ordered off the pitch.

Also, they can never actually admit this, but as fans we all know that the fact that VVD was complaining about an objectively correct decision and Haaland was complaining about an atrociously awful decision does play into it.

 

[robertmac43]

Lewis Dunk saw red and was suspended for less than what Haaland did

 

[bluesfan94]

I disagree but that that is because I'm used to having it strictly enforced in my country. And, as I said, Man City have the same approach.

BTW United haven't banned anybody from publishing bullshit. The press are free to write.

They have only banned idiots from asking about the shit they publish at the press conference.

Just to be clear, you're upset that these outlets didn't ask United before publishing and you think the best punishment is to prevent them from asking questions of United?

Okay.

 

[Savant]

Just to be clear, under the actual rules of the game, the captain has absolutely no *right* to talk to the official. The captain exists so that the referee has a point of contact among the players if *he* needs to say something to *them*. Beyond that it's entirely up to the ref what he wants to allow.

In regards to the VVD situation, he was handed a DOGSO red. While VAR was checking it, he remained on the pitch as he is absolutely allowed to do. During that time the referee was informing him on what happened and letting him know if it was confirmed he'd have to leave immediately. The referee communicated with him during that process and even let him know that the fact it was DOGSO was upheld and they were just checking offside and such, meaning he gave VVD warning of the decision about to come. Then the VAR check completed and the referee confirmed that to VVD and told him to leave the pitch. VVD them spent ~15-20 seconds yelling at the official before leaving and then spent additional time on the sidelines yelling at the fourth official.

I would love to see Haaland (or others) suspended for going at a ref after a bad call that aggressively, but the simple fact is that they haven't done that or set that as a precedent and it's fundamentally different than the VVD situation because Haaland hadn't been shown a red and ordered off the pitch.

Also, they can never actually admit this, but as fans we all know that the fact that VVD was complaining about an objectively correct decision and Haaland was complaining about an atrociously awful decision does play into it.

Thank you for providing this. This helps me to differentiate (whether I agree or not)

 

[bluesfan94]

Lewis Dunk saw red and was suspended for less than what Haaland did

Wasn't it a double yellow? Like I said, I think Haaland should have gotten one yellow and if he persisted, a second. At which point, he would have been suspended two games, because dissent gets you an extra game.

Which is why Van Dijk got an extra game, just like Lewis Dunk, to tie everything up neatly.

 

[Jussi]

Just to be clear, you're upset that these outlets didn't ask United before publishing and you think the best punishment is to prevent them from asking questions of United?

Okay.

Yes that is exactly what I meant.

Quote fromRedcafe thread about this:

Correction: No journalists were banned from Old Trafford. Just 4 cnuts.

Basically people who made up stuff and published them without asking United for a comment.

 

[robertmac43]

Wasn't it a double yellow? Like I said, I think Haaland should have gotten one yellow and if he persisted, a second. At which point, he would have been suspended two games, because dissent gets you an extra game.

Which is why Van Dijk got an extra game, just like Lewis Dunk, to tie everything up neatly.

Yeah it was a double yellow and a massive over reaction. Oh shoot true, forgot about the second game for dissent.

 

[Jussi]

And he's got more journalistic credibility than the ones banned.

 

[Ceremony]

What I'm learning here is everything would be better if everyone was Finnish.

 

[Jussi]

What I'm learning here is everything would be better if everyone was Finnish.

Everyone would be happier, for sure.

 

[bluesfan94]

Yes that is exactly what I meant.

Quote fromRedcafe thread about this:



Basically people who made up stuff and published them without asking United for a comment.

Oh well if Redcafe says it....

But that's my point. You're complaining that they didn't ask United and punishing them by....taking away their ability to easily ask United. Silly stuff from a silly club.

 

[Jussi]

Oh well if Redcafe says it....

But that's my point. You're complaining that they didn't ask United and punishing them by....taking away their ability to easily ask United. Silly stuff from a silly club.

Well the Sky guy and Luckhurst do not a have a reputation as being very reliable Unites sources. Or in general. And I think the Sky Sports guy is ranked as shit tier by just about every team's Reddit Source ranking lists.

 

[Savant]

Yeah it was a double yellow and a massive over reaction. Oh shoot true, forgot about the second game for dissent.

Too many rules. Cant keep track

 

[hatterson]

Wasn't it a double yellow? Like I said, I think Haaland should have gotten one yellow and if he persisted, a second. At which point, he would have been suspended two games, because dissent gets you an extra game.

Which is why Van Dijk got an extra game, just like Lewis Dunk, to tie everything up neatly.

Dunk actually got a straight red.

He first received a yellow for dissent because he crowded Taylor and was saying something as he was coming back on the field and signaling the pen after pitchside review. Then he said something extra to the ref after that at which point Taylor then handed him a separate straight red (only ~15 seconds after the yellow) for verbal abuse of official which comes with a two match suspension.

Dunk was far less physically demonstrative than Haaland was, but it's clear he also said something that crossed a pretty big line.

 

[robertmac43]

Too many rules. Cant keep track

I'm getting old for all this stuff. No more room in the brain