2023-2024 EPL Season

[Spring in Fialta]

Arsenal lost the league because they choked against shit teams. Nothing else. They should have gotten those points even with Saliba out.

This isn't the NHL with a cap. Clubs with massive resources like Arsenal should have the depth to withstand the loss of Saliba to still at least pick up the points they dropped against teams without their resources. They bottled it.

 

[bluesfan94]

Arsenal lost the league because they choked against shit teams. Nothing else. They should have gotten those points even with Saliba out.

This isn't the NHL with a cap. Clubs with massive resources like Arsenal should have the depth to withstand the loss of Saliba to still at least pick up the points they dropped against teams without their resources. They bottled it.

Arsenal was a couple years ahead of schedule last year and wasn't expecting to be in a title hunt, so they hadn't built the depth. That said, they intended to have depth, but Tomiyasu was also out injured, so neither he nor White were able to play RCB. They were down to their 4th string RCB and dropped points initially.

 

[maclean]

With KDB missing half the season and Arsenal spending like a quarter billion this summer, Arsenal should have been anointed the favorites months ago.

Lol. If we're going off how much teams spent in the summer, surely Chelsea are the favourites? Or, hm, if we go off overall valuations rankings then...

EPL Franchise Valuations Ranking List: From Manchester United to Bournemouth

Check out Sportico's full EPL team values ranking list, from Manchester United to Bournemouth.

www.sportico.com

Looks like Liverpool ranks higher than City, but United should be favourites!

Orrrrr maybe you're grasping

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Arsenal was a couple years ahead of schedule last year and wasn't expecting to be in a title hunt, so they hadn't built the depth. That said, they intended to have depth, but Tomiyasu was also out injured, so neither he nor White were able to play RCB. They were down to their 4th string RCB and dropped points initially.

Yeah, they had a great year for sure but I don't think injuries are what made them tie against teams like Southampton and West Ham who were having brutal seasons. No matter their injuries, Arsenal has to pick up those points at such a key juncture. Hell, they only tied Southampton by the skin of their ass. They didn't come close to winning.

 

[Savant]

Lol. If we're going off how much teams spent in the summer, surely Chelsea are the favourites? Or, hm, if we go off overall valuations rankings then...

EPL Franchise Valuations Ranking List: From Manchester United to Bournemouth

Check out Sportico's full EPL team values ranking list, from Manchester United to Bournemouth.

www.sportico.com

Looks like Liverpool ranks higher than City, but United should be favourites!

Orrrrr maybe you're grasping

I don’t think this is grasping at all. Why is this unfair? There is certainly a correlation between investing in the team and expecting results. Especially if you finish second and then drop a nine figure window. You don’t drop nine figures to stay in second place. I don’t even think that’s a controversial statement

 

[KJS14]

I don’t think this is grasping at all. Why is this unfair? There is certainly a correlation between investing in the team and expecting results. Especially if you finish second and then drop a nine figure window. You don’t drop nine figures to stay in second place. I don’t even think that’s a controversial statement

The team that won the league also spent ~240M gross / 130M net over the summer.

You're just trying to plant your own seed that Arsenal are the obvious favorites and then potentially call Arsenal bottlers in 5 months. I've never seen someone care so much how other teams are perceived on here rather than just rooting for your own team.

 

[cheechoo]

It's really Arsenal who blew it up rather then City who beat everyone.
The Saliba injury killed them.

Not just Saliba. Saliba and Tomiyasu went down against Sporting. And then they just imploded. Saka and Gabriel especially were abhorrent down the stretch.

 

[maclean]

I don’t think this is grasping at all. Why is this unfair? There is certainly a correlation between investing in the team and expecting results. Especially if you finish second and then drop a nine figure window. You don’t drop nine figures to stay in second place. I don’t even think that’s a controversial statement

I don't even get what you're trying to say. Did we spend because we want to push for the title? Obviously. We are very much not alone in that though. Other teams spent more and other teams have more total worth, which is the point I was making that you completely ignored. All of them expect results.

 

[Savant]

The team that won the league also spent ~240M gross / 130M net over the summer.

You're just trying to plant your own seed that Arsenal are the obvious favorites and then potentially call Arsenal bottlers in 5 months. I've never seen someone care so much how other teams are perceived on here rather than just rooting for your own team.

Arsenal are bottlers if they don’t win the league. I don’t need to plant anything. I will say it right now

And yes - you are proving my point that teams spending nine figures are trying to contend for the league and/or improve their league position. Again not controversial.

I don't even get what you're trying to say. Did we spend because we want to push for the title? Obviously. We are very much not alone in that though. Other teams spent more and other teams have more total worth, which is the point I was making that you completely ignored. All of them expect results.

That’s all I am saying - Arsenal spent because they wanted to make a title run. Don’t understand the uproar from yall.

 

[maclean]

That’s all I am saying - Arsenal spent because they wanted to make a title run. Don’t understand the uproar from yall.

Arsenal spent because they wanted to make a title run. Yes. Obviously. That fact does not differentiate them from any number of other teams and certainly does not make them favourites, no matter how much you'd like to force that narrative

 

[Savant]

Arsenal spent because they wanted to make a title run. Yes. Obviously. That fact does not differentiate them from any number of other teams and certainly does not make them favourites, no matter how much you'd like to force that narrative

How does it not make them favorites? Or at least among the favorites? That’s where my disconnect is. They finished second and they invested heavily to improve the team.

Yes other teams spent too, but Arsenal was the closest of those to finishing first. When you finish second you can only go one place higher.

Maybe City was favorites in preseason, but as soon as KDB went down long term, Arsenal should have/would have been appointed favorites. Again I don’t think any of this is outrageous

 

[bluesfan94]

Arsenal spent because they wanted to make a title run. Yes. Obviously. That fact does not differentiate them from any number of other teams and certainly does not make them favourites, no matter how much you'd like to force that narrative

Most teams actually spend because they don't wanna win. See, for example, Chelsea.

Also, Saliba is more important to Arsenal than KDB is to City, but Saliba's injury shouldn't have affected Arsenal last season but KDB's injury affects City so much that they are no longer the favorites.

 

[Savant]

Most teams actually spend because they don't wanna win. See, for example, Chelsea.

Also, Saliba is more important to Arsenal than KDB is to City, but Saliba's injury shouldn't have affected Arsenal last season but KDB's injury affects City so much that they are no longer the favorites.

Teams spend because they want to improve their league position. With Arsenal, they can only improve their league position up one spot. Chelsea wants to improve their league position too, but it’s easier to improve your league position when you finish 12th than when you finish 2nd.

What are we basing Saliba being more important to Arsenal vs KDB importance to City on? It’s certainly neither individual honors nor team honors.

 

[Evilo]

I don’t buy that. Yeah the Saliba injury was bad for them, but you need to be able to withstand injuries. And with the run that City went on healthy Saliba doesn’t exactly guarantee Arsenal a title either. When LFC won their title in 19-20 they played Adrian at keeper in around 10 games. That was a much bigger loss.

Of you compare their goals against with and without Saliba that season it's staggering.

So yes it's quite obvious.

In the 10 matches right after the injury, Arsenal won 7, drew 2 and lost 1. It wasn't the injury that did it.

Also, when they lost 3 of their last 6 to give up the title, they scored a total of 1 goal in those 3 matches. I would say the forwards would be why they lost out given their lack of goals.

It's not just right after the injury. It's all the games. And they surrendered weak goals to weak teams.

So no. See above the stats are striking.

 

[maclean]

Teams spend because they want to improve their league position. With Arsenal, they can only improve their league position up one spot. Chelsea wants to improve their league position too, but it’s easier to improve your league position when you finish 12th than when you finish 2nd.

What are we basing Saliba being more important to Arsenal vs KDB importance to City on? It’s certainly neither individual honors nor team honors.

And what about City????

Whatever, I'm done

 

[KJS14]

I would love for Arsenal to actually be clear/outright favorites for the title, but that's not true. How someone would come to that conclusion based on just the below... I'll never get it.

Manchester City

- Finished 1st last year​

- Spent ~240M gross / 130M net​

- Key injury in KdB, others missed time​

​

Arsenal

- Finished 2nd last year​

- Spent ~235M gross / 165M net​

- Key injury in Partey, others missed time​

 

[Savant]

I would love for Arsenal to actually be clear/outright favorites for the title, but that's not true. How someone would come to that conclusion based on just the below... I'll never get it.

Manchester City

- Finished 1st last year​

- Spent ~240M gross / 130M net​

- Key injury in KdB, others missed time​

​

Arsenal

- Finished 2nd last year​

- Spent ~235M gross / 165M net​

- Key injury in Partey, others missed time​

I’ll never get how Thomas is mentioned in the same breath as KDB

And what about City????

Whatever, I'm done

What about City? What’s the question?

 

[maclean]

What about City? What’s the question?

I mean first and foremost I reject your whole ridiculous logic and indeed premise, but even if I were to accept it, Arsenal placing second and spending what they spent makes them "the favourite" but City, who placed first, indeed pulled off a treble, spent in fact slightly more but somehow aren't?

 

[Savant]

I mean first and foremost I reject your whole ridiculous logic and indeed premise, but even if I were to accept it, Arsenal placing second and spending what they spent makes them "the favourite" but City, who placed first, indeed pulled off a treble, spent in fact slightly more but somehow aren't?

I said City preseason favorite, and that Arsenal; justifiably based on their summer investments, should be/should have been favorites after the KDB injury. Which was months ago. Arsenals summer spending took them into position. KDB injury should have tipped the odds

 

[maclean]

I said City preseason favorite, and that Arsenal; justifiably based on their summer investments, should be/should have been favorites after the KDB injury. Which was months ago. Arsenals summer spending took them into position. KDB injury should have tipped the odds

What about when Odegaard was injured?

Football is not a Grade 3 math problem ffs. Like actually grow up and accept the stochastic nature of the universe

 

[Savant]

What about when Odegaard was injured?

Football is not a Grade 3 math problem ffs. Like actually grow up and accept the stochastic nature of the universe

What about when Odegaard was injured? Not the same thing by any metric. Not by time out, individual honors or team honors

 

[VEGASKING]

Individual talent level ≠importance to their team. When Partey missed games last season the difference in the teams performance was night and day.

I'd argue Rodri is more important to City for a similar reason as they have no one similar to replace him like Arsenal had no one to replace Partey last season.

 

[Brunkmeister]

Individual talent level ≠importance to their team. When Partey missed games last season the difference in the teams performance was night and day.

I'd argue Rodri is more important to City for a similar reason as they have no one similar to replace him like Arsenal had no one to replace Partey last season.

You took the words out of my mouth This year Arsenal have Rice so the standard in midfield doesn’t drop without Partey. That’s the difference.

 

[bluesfan94]

Kalvin Phillips has won more prem titles and the same number of Champions League titles as Stevey G, so I guess if we're judging importance based on team honors, here we are.

It's why I've had Mariano Diaz above Salah for years.

 

[Savant]

Joel Matip blew out his knee. Season ended.



Will be a shame if that was his last game for LFC. Looked washed in preseason but was comfortably their second best CB on form this season. Big loss - will be interesting if they have to react in January now. LFC in a similar position to Arsenal last year where they are ahead of schedule. They’ve got less than month to figure out if they are going to go for it or not.