2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Moose and Squirrel

Registered User
Jan 15, 2021
3,685
2,703
Minor point, but I have noticed that a few of you have penciled in Walker as a fixture on the fourth line. I don't think he has done anything to deserve that. I see him as a permanent AHL player who can be called up for emergencies. His defensive game is non existent, and this is an area the team has to work on. I would like to see Armstrong go shopping for a fast, defensively sound veteran to play with Sunny and Toropchenko. I am certain this can be accomplished without spending too much in either money or assets.
while not known to be a defense 1st forward, he's a smart player with the speed you're wanting. I certainly don't mind him on the 4th line, with a bump to the 3rd when necessary.

as long as it isn't Alexandrov. I've yet to see what they see in him
 

tfriede2

Registered User
Aug 8, 2010
4,695
3,207
Minor point, but I have noticed that a few of you have penciled in Walker as a fixture on the fourth line. I don't think he has done anything to deserve that. I see him as a permanent AHL player who can be called up for emergencies. His defensive game is non existent, and this is an area the team has to work on. I would like to see Armstrong go shopping for a fast, defensively sound veteran to play with Sunny and Toropchenko. I am certain this can be accomplished without spending too much in either money or assets.
I only penciled him in above because I assumed no trades or acquisitions, but I definitely agree - DA will shop for 1-2 bottom 6ers, IMO.
 

Beauterham

Registered User
Aug 19, 2018
1,719
1,558
Minor point, but I have noticed that a few of you have penciled in Walker as a fixture on the fourth line. I don't think he has done anything to deserve that. I see him as a permanent AHL player who can be called up for emergencies. His defensive game is non existent, and this is an area the team has to work on. I would like to see Armstrong go shopping for a fast, defensively sound veteran to play with Sunny and Toropchenko. I am certain this can be accomplished without spending too much in either money or assets.

With the trade deadline getting closer, there will undoubtly be a couple of players hitting waivers, like Kapanen last season. We might be able to get an adequate 4th liner for free as long as their caphit isn't too high and the contract isn't too long.
 

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,340
7,768
Canada
while not known to be a defense 1st forward, he's a smart player with the speed you're wanting. I certainly don't mind him on the 4th line, with a bump to the 3rd when necessary.

as long as it isn't Alexandrov. I've yet to see what they see in him
I get that, I am not happy with Alexandrov's development either. The reason I want to move on from Walker, is that I see team defense as an important, if not critical, area that the organization needs to focus on, from both a coaching and personnel perspective. I don't think Walker contributes to that, in fact I think he may even be a hindrance.
 

Bye Bye Blueston

Registered User
Dec 4, 2016
19,867
21,175
Elsewhere
I get that, I am not happy with Alexandrov's development either. The reason I want to move on from Walker, is that I see team defense as an important, if not critical, area that the organization needs to focus on, from both a coaching and personnel perspective. I don't think Walker contributes to that, in fact I think he may even be a hindrance.
Walker is I think ideally 13th or 14th forward. He brings energy in spurts, but shouldn’t be a regular. I think club views him similarly as you and I, they just don’t have 12 better forwards right now, which is large part of our problem. We thought blais and alexandrov would be better than they have been and vrana wouldn’t be unplayable.
 

BlueDream

Registered User
Aug 30, 2011
26,227
15,121
Minor point, but I have noticed that a few of you have penciled in Walker as a fixture on the fourth line. I don't think he has done anything to deserve that. I see him as a permanent AHL player who can be called up for emergencies. His defensive game is non existent, and this is an area the team has to work on. I would like to see Armstrong go shopping for a fast, defensively sound veteran to play with Sunny and Toropchenko. I am certain this can be accomplished without spending too much in either money or assets.
I disagree that Walker is a permanent AHL player. I like him and think he deserves to be in the NHL.

I’m not opposed to acquiring an upgrade for the 4th line that pushes Walker to the press box as a spare forward. That’s fine, but I would keep him on the roster for sure. He has provided a spark numerous times when we have put him in the lineup. He leads all of our forwards in blocks per 60 and is 2nd on the team in hits per 60, and has shown the ability to chip in some goals too. The guy plays with as much heart as anyone on the team and seems to be loved in the locker room. I think we have a roster spot for that type of energy player. Also worth noting that the 4th line has definitely been better lately and Bannister has been starting them in games recently, which correlates with Walker’s call up since he’s been a lot better than Alexandrov and Blais this year. That unit with Walker, Sunny and Toro has been playing really well together.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,598
14,298
Walker is I think ideally 13th or 14th forward. He brings energy in spurts, but shouldn’t be a regular. I think club views him similarly as you and I, they just don’t have 12 better forwards right now, which is large part of our problem. We thought blais and alexandrov would be better than they have been and vrana wouldn’t be unplayable.
I agree with the overall view of Walker, but I think the bolded downplays what he has contributed this year. I think he is currently playing because he has been doing his job (even if his entry into the lineup was for the exact reason you described).

He has 5 goals and 2 assists in 18 games while very much playing in a 4th line role. He is 'even' in +/-, his possession metrics are pretty decent given his 30% O-zone start rate, and he's been hitting like crazy. We have had a legit 4th line over the last month+ and he has been a part of that.

I don't think it is sustainable over 82 games and I think the organization agrees. But his play over 18 games since his call up has been that of a guy who deserves to be on the 4th line of damn near any NHL team.
 

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,966
9,504
Lost 3 of 4 and the schedule isn’t getting much easier. It’s going to be interesting to see what Army does at the TDL. I hope we sell. Buch, Leddy, Hayes, Saad, Krug, Scandella, Kap are all on my trade block.
 

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
8,066
8,676
Remember when the Blues were hard to play against? This team just doesn't have that quality. Saying that, the teams we had that were hard to play against were big and physical, but there is more than one way to do that.

We're not really a big, physical team, so we are rarely able to create a dominant cycle game in the offensive zone (though sometimes we do see this from our 4th line) and we can get pushed around at times in the defensive zone. We have some skilled players, but when we play a really skilled team it shows how much we're not that. Our skilled guys can make plays, but we generally lack the crisp tape-to-tape passing you need as a counter-attack team, and we are generally the opposite of opportunistic when it comes to slot chances and chances in tight, typically dusting pucks or waiting for screens, only to have shots blocked or getting stick-on-sticked because we wasted too much time. Man, I feel like I've been saying that last part for 15 years.

I think we will see a lot in the next 15-18 months in terms of carving out the identity of the "new core". If we're going to play a fast and counter-attacking style, we need more skilled players, more shooters, and quite a bit of skills development around moving and protecting pucks. On the back end, while I generally agree that we need to find more guys that can defend well in our zone, I think we have just as big of a need for guys like Leddy (only better) who can generate quick retrievals and get the puck out of our zone and back up the ice. We get none/one-and-done(-ed) way too much on offense, but we also need to be doing that to our opponents more efficiently.

I think we're set for the foreseeable future in the goalie department, but there is a lot of pruning and identity seeking that needs to be done in terms of the 18 skaters that suit up every night.
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
20,389
18,104
Hyrule
Lost 3 of 4 and the schedule isn’t getting much easier. It’s going to be interesting to see what Army does at the TDL. I hope we sell. Buch, Leddy, Hayes, Saad, Krug, Scandella, Kap are all on my trade block.
And then do what? Force rookies who are not ready into the NHL? I understand Buch, Krug, Scandella, and Kap. But trading Leddy, Hayes, and Saad seems to be just trading players to trade them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Liut

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,966
9,504
And then do what? Force rookies who are not ready into the NHL? I understand Buch, Krug, Scandella, and Kap. But trading Leddy, Hayes, and Saad seems to be just trading players to trade them.

Gaining assets and cap room for larger moves
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
20,389
18,104
Hyrule
Gaining assets and cap room for larger moves
The issue with that is, what larger moves? If we move them and there are no larger moves available then we are stuck forcing young players like Bolduc, Dean, Loof, and others into positions way over their heads and stunting their growth.

And on top of that the assets we get back from Leddy, Hayes, and Saad are going to have much lower impact than what we get from them on the ice. Those are the type of players that will be good while rebuilding. because they are basically just warm bodies with fairly low cap hits while we wait for the kids to grow. Throwing away all of those players without anyone to replace them will end up with us stuck in the Buffalo Sabre's direction. A endless rebuild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bye Bye Blueston

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,966
9,504
The issue with that is, what larger moves? If we move them and there are no larger moves available then we are stuck forcing young players like Bolduc, Dean, Loof, and others into positions way over their heads and stunting their growth.

And on top of that the assets we get back from Leddy, Hayes, and Saad are going to have much lower impact than what we get from them on the ice. Those are the type of players that will be good while rebuilding. because they are basically just warm bodies with fairly low cap hits while we wait for the kids to grow. Throwing away all of those players without anyone to replace them will end up with us stuck in the Buffalo Sabre's direction. A endless rebuild.

Just because I listed them, doesn’t mean every one will be moved. Im just saying, if an offer is good, they are gone.
 

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,340
7,768
Canada
Remember when the Blues were hard to play against? This team just doesn't have that quality. Saying that, the teams we had that were hard to play against were big and physical, but there is more than one way to do that.

We're not really a big, physical team, so we are rarely able to create a dominant cycle game in the offensive zone (though sometimes we do see this from our 4th line) and we can get pushed around at times in the defensive zone. We have some skilled players, but when we play a really skilled team it shows how much we're not that. Our skilled guys can make plays, but we generally lack the crisp tape-to-tape passing you need as a counter-attack team, and we are generally the opposite of opportunistic when it comes to slot chances and chances in tight, typically dusting pucks or waiting for screens, only to have shots blocked or getting stick-on-sticked because we wasted too much time. Man, I feel like I've been saying that last part for 15 years.

I think we will see a lot in the next 15-18 months in terms of carving out the identity of the "new core". If we're going to play a fast and counter-attacking style, we need more skilled players, more shooters, and quite a bit of skills development around moving and protecting pucks. On the back end, while I generally agree that we need to find more guys that can defend well in our zone, I think we have just as big of a need for guys like Leddy (only better) who can generate quick retrievals and get the puck out of our zone and back up the ice. We get none/one-and-done(-ed) way too much on offense, but we also need to be doing that to our opponents more efficiently.

I think we're set for the foreseeable future in the goalie department, but there is a lot of pruning and identity seeking that needs to be done in terms of the 18 skaters that suit up every night.
As to the bolded, I agree with you,and I think that Armstrong has tried to maneuver in that direction. I just want to emphasize that Krug and Perunovich are NOT those guys. We are really missing Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester in that respect.
 

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,966
9,504
If somebody offered a 2nd for Hayes, Leddy, Saad and/or Krug, I’ll be the driver.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JR1

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,598
14,298
The issue with that is, what larger moves? If we move them and there are no larger moves available then we are stuck forcing young players like Bolduc, Dean, Loof, and others into positions way over their heads and stunting their growth.

And on top of that the assets we get back from Leddy, Hayes, and Saad are going to have much lower impact than what we get from them on the ice. Those are the type of players that will be good while rebuilding. because they are basically just warm bodies with fairly low cap hits while we wait for the kids to grow. Throwing away all of those players without anyone to replace them will end up with us stuck in the Buffalo Sabre's direction. A endless rebuild.
I don't think anyone can tell you what the larger moves will be right now, because those will almost certainly come after the season ends. Unless you can work out a trade for Hanifin (that you know that you can extend), there aren't really any large moves that make sense for us that are likely to take place at the deadline. The idea would be to get a good price on an asset(s) that you are selling now, replace them with worse stop-gaps for the remainder of this season, and then use those assets and/or increased cap flexibility to address holes at the draft and in the summer.

It is not hard to acquire warm bodies at the deadline if the primary goal is simply to keep prospects out of the NHL.

A year ago we got Kap for nothing, Vrana (with 50% retention) for a 7th, and Blais as a cap dump in the Tarasenko trade. A few months later at the draft, we got Hayes for a 6th. That's 4 warm body stop gaps for a 6th and a 7th. If we are in fact selling, then we would be freeing up the cap space needed to take on a couple of those guys in order to keep the youngsters in the AHL. Most of the teams that will be buying are right at the cap. There are always buyers looking to give away cap dumps to fit in their desired acquisitions.

Getting warm bodies to keep the kids in the AHL (and avoid taking all of their veteran teammates via callup) for 20-25 games is not a difficult or costly process if you aren't all that concerned about the stop gaps contributing to standings points.

I think I would need a bigger return than most to trade Leddy or Hayes (especially Leddy) because I think they are both outperforming their cap number at the moment and play positions that we lack organizational depth in the short-medium term. But there is certainly a price where it becomes worth it to downgrade them to a worse-but-similarly paid player to act as a stop gap.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,672
8,286
St.Louis
Is anyone else curious if after how we had to listen for a year about how Kyrou needs traded all because of his +/- what does that person think of Connor Bedard being nearly equal to Kyrou +/- from last year?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Orrtuzzo

shpongle falls

Ass Möde
Oct 1, 2014
1,852
1,439
The Night Train
Looks like they called Bolduc up looking forward to see how he looks with the Blues, he’s been playing well lately for Springfield lately. Hope Bolduc pans out for us, it’s be nice to have him and Snuggs on the powerplay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LGB

LGB

Registered User
Feb 4, 2019
2,262
2,361
Looks like they called Bolduc up looking forward to see how he looks with the Blues, he’s been playing well lately for Springfield lately. Hope Bolduc pans out for us, it’s be nice to have him and Snuggs on the powerplay.

A bit surprising since he's having a mediocre season in the AHL but can't hurt to give him a few games. Not expecting much in his first NHL stint. Will be interesting to see what line they put him on.
 

SergeConstantin74

Always right.
Jul 7, 2007
12,647
8,009
Looks like they called Bolduc up looking forward to see how he looks with the Blues, he’s been playing well lately for Springfield lately. Hope Bolduc pans out for us, it’s be nice to have him and Snuggs on the powerplay.

Nice coincidence, the Blues are playing their next game against the Islanders and his former junior coach Patrick Roy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad