I know what you are saying about Jean Perron. Although, Toe Blake as coach won eight Cups in 14 years with the Habs. That's a slightly higher %.We are laughing , but he has one cup ring on a 2 seasons career . Probably the best % of all time for a coach ; 50%
Prospect Info: Florian Xhekaj
- Thread starter Adam Michaels
- Start date
It's horrible drafting to pick a guy at any spot if you think his upside is as a 4th liner.
Even in the lower rounds you should pick a kid with some ability or quality that if the shortcoming(s) get fixed, can make him a top player. Of course the odds are ridiculously long, but every now and then you get a real good player.
So Flo , didn't produce and he isn't skilled. But he is big even for the NHL, skates decently enough, goes to the net, has a decent wrist shot, is physical and competes. If he has his brothers desire....
Flo has a low, but realistic chance of putting it together and if he does, could become a Tom Wilson type of player. And Wilson is a guy he likes.
No problem with this pick.
Even in the lower rounds you should pick a kid with some ability or quality that if the shortcoming(s) get fixed, can make him a top player. Of course the odds are ridiculously long, but every now and then you get a real good player.
So Flo , didn't produce and he isn't skilled. But he is big even for the NHL, skates decently enough, goes to the net, has a decent wrist shot, is physical and competes. If he has his brothers desire....
Flo has a low, but realistic chance of putting it together and if he does, could become a Tom Wilson type of player. And Wilson is a guy he likes.
No problem with this pick.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Habs scouts were clearly high on him heading into the draft. Seems to be adding weight/muscle fast like his older brother too. A good use of a 4th round dart from what I see. Very curious to see how he grows in the next two seasons.
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montreal
Go Habs Go
I wouldn't agree, you are looking for NHLers at every pick, there's no harm in finding role players at the draft.
Jaynki
Registered User
- Feb 3, 2014
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No it is not,
Some guys around the league had terrific career as role player with rare intangibles.
Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Maroon, Goodrow for example and they were in-demand player.
You need player that have the attributes to play there but also players that will accept their roles there. You can't have a Christian Dvorak or a Mike Hoffman on a fourth line.
We are talking about a 110th pick here. There is no ''swing for the fences'' anymore. The offensive player remaining at this spot have glaring weakness and dubious potential at best. Some may hit for sure.
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It's actually the floor you are hoping for. But I get the sentiment. That is the beautiful part of drafting kids you can guess on the possible progression but there are so many factors including internal clock that end up skewing the process. I think I've said it more than once consider how different the drafts would look if they were held even 1 year later.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
- 90,739
- 39,661
Most fillers in the NHL happen to be top end players for their junior teams. Even in their draft year.
My picks would be made of players that if develop super well, they all could be top end players. If not, they could play another role. I also don't agree that you should pick a player with an already specific role in mind especially if you are targetting a guy who AT BEST could be a 4th liner. There's just no room for hope.
Having said all of that, if their own analysis based on growth etc is that it's possible that Florian does have in him to suddenly explode offensively and be a top 6 player THOUGH he is most likely to be a bottom 6? Fine pick for me.
To me, it's always the same thing. It's not the pick. It's the thought process.
No there isn't. But you don't aim for them. Gorton said as much last year, that you don't pick guys thinking they will be a good 4th liner, you pick for better and you will just end up with some of those guys being 4th liners.
Picking outside of the 2nd round every player has at least one significant deficiency, typically several. So I get it, you can question how any can have much upside at all. I still think you pick a player you think has the highest ceiling at where you are picking.
montreal
Go Habs Go
Who said anything about aim for them, you make up your list and as you check the names off, if said up coming pick fits the situation then you make you pick. It's not like they are saying I think this guy will only ever play on the 4th line, instead they are looking at what role he could fill and if that role ends up a 4th liner because that's where his skill level showed as he progressed through the ranks.
Bobrov said that they are looking for NHL players, they took him because of what role they think he might be able to fill in 5 years and based off the very little i've seen of him, he would be lucky to end up a 4th liner in the NHL full time (and a big win for the family to have 2 NHLers).
To me you 100% draft these kind of players if you think there's really something there and at the right time, which is tough to say since every draft class is different.
You can't draft a team full of Caufield's just as you can't draft a team full of Pezzetta's, which is why drafting 18 year olds is so hard and the stats so bad on the success rate beyond the 1st round.
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
- 11,141
- 12,323
I think his point is that those players were drafted with the upside of being more than 4th liners and all of them have played in the top 9 for large chunks of their careers.
Drafting a player with the hope that maybe he can play on a 4th line at best was reserved for goons or the last picks of the draft by ill prepared GM's. Listing a group of the best 4th liners in hockey is not evidence that they were drafted to be that.
They clearly see much more than a 4th liner in Xhekaj as was made blatantly evident in the recent draft video that they released. They absolutely see players like this as safe bets to be valuable 4th liners if their upside doesn't necessarily hit which is why people are conflating the drafting of physical players like this with targeting 4th liners. They are targeting potential upside with players who bring an element that will be useful lower in the lineup if they settle closer to their floor.
Targeting a player who you hope just might be able to make it as a 4th liner is terrible asset management as they are the cheapest and most abundant commodity. You absolutely always shoot at least a little higher if you intend on being successful.
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Exactly. if they don't feel there are any NHL calibre players left except a 4th liner or 2, then take one of them.
And on 4th round gambles, the odds of the big body kid to have a role if his skills tops as 4th line level are much better than the 5'9 with skills but no role in a team stacked with a strong top 9. That's kind of where i see the Florian gamble. He 'could' be a Wilson but be would still me usefull as a Maroon...
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Theres certainly value in homegrown role players thst grow in your organization and come in on the cheap.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
The backlash on this pick could have been avoided if they didn't wait until the draft video in September to have our scouts tell us why they selected him.
That was the worst post draft presser in the history of the team. I still don't know what the hell they think of Volokhin, Miller, Harris, Eriksson or Mittelstadt.
That was the worst post draft presser in the history of the team. I still don't know what the hell they think of Volokhin, Miller, Harris, Eriksson or Mittelstadt.
WinterLion
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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Yeah I miss Timmins' after draft breakdown...
I fully agree. They really avoided hyping Reinbacher in the interview too. Also, they said they couldn't scout Michkov live this year, which I thought was a ridiculous response from an organization that should have the access to the best resources, but in the video it seems like they were talking Reinbacher vs. Michkov, implying some people had saw him.
After the 2nd picking any guy who becomes an NHL regular has a good dose of luck involved.
Pezz v Caufield ? I'm not sure how the BPA factors in because a team would have criteria for BPA, but for sure having a mix of prospects is needed. Gallagher was no high skill guy but he had lots of okay qualities and extreme tenacity, and here you are. For guys like Flo and Gallagher it's the never quit and aggression that may get them in as the skill set won't do it on its own. Hopefully like Gallagher Flo has a few okay NHL skills so that he becomes a Gallagher v a Pezz.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
I mean Gallagher had 80+ points and 40 goals, he was tenacious but he had skill and undervalued due to his size.
Pezzetta had 28 points, Xhekaj had 25 points.
Yes, and you look at our Farrell. Seems to have lots of skill, but he needs to be able to maneuver out there so in some way, be it speed or shiftiness, the skating has to be there. Otherwise he has no role to play.
Sure Gallagher didn't lack skill, but that same tenacity I think allowed him to put up those real good numbers in junior, and teams just thought he wouldn't produce at the NHL level with his size and skill set, as you say.
Flo had his 1st year in junior last year. He reminds me of Gallagher in that he does have some skills there, and he has a big body he needs to get comfortable with. I think he could surprise..And could surprise is good enough.
I look at it like this. They looked at Arbor and suspect Florian maybe a late bloomer as well with the same intangibles.If you can develop your fourth liners in house it would be better than signing or trading for more expensive veterans.Yes there is risk as in every other transaction. Shooting for what is guaranteed all the times means you will finish in the middle of the pack.Considering how well last years draft is appearing I will give the Habs draft team plenty of elbow room.
malcb33
Registered User
Surely Bobrov made the trip to go see Michkov? He's still a Russian citizen, right?
If the Director of Amateur scouting didn't go to Russia (and had the opportunity) to see Michkov live (and seeing someone live is a factor in making that decision) I don't know how the scouting team can feel confident in a decision of that magnitude.
