Speculation: 2022 Off-Season | Dethroned: What next? - Part 2

[Maelmoor]

It's easy to stick with guys who's been around for a long time and had great success, but at some point you have to make tough calls and part ways.

Had we kept McD for the reminder of the contract, it could have crippled us big time, had we signed Palat to a five year deal, there is a great risk it would hurt us after a couple of years.

I love those guys, but the ability to move on in time, is an important component of remaining successful. Obviously no one knows when that time is, but I still prefer this approach rather than hanging on to guys too long for loyalty reasons.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Even if Foote takes some steps there's the cloud looming overhead regarding Team Canada. If he's involved, I imagine we probably release/trade him. We're taking an absolute flier on Myers being capable of playing. Aside from that, my hope is that Perbix who some are betting on to make the team, actually does.

Foote was completely cleared a couple days ago.

 

[ThunderRoad]

im going to disagree with this and state that hedman and serge's path to the contract was eerily similar. hedman had not really established himself in the league prior to the 2015 playoffs when he played as a #1 that year, and took us to a SCF we ultimately lost in six games to a team with a bonafid #1 that outplayed hedman (keith). serge also has not truly separated himself from other upper tier defenseman prior to the playoffs but took us to a SCF (albeit with hedman, although he was clearly not playing to his usual capabilities) against a team we lost to in six with a bonafid #1 outplaying serge (makar).

serge's playoffs is why we made the SCF. rutta was benched in the first round, McD was terrible, Cernak was hurt for most of it, hedman was just not himself, and bogo was bogo. especially in the finals no one was logging minutes like serge. just my thoughts

Hedman was playing on top pairing then. Sergachev hasn't really done that to this point (for significant time). Not saying he can't but he hasn't yet. I get it takes longer for defenseman to fully mature and maybe Sergachev has more been about opportunity since Hedman and McDonagh were the top 2 in front of him. But the defense Sergachev has been a part of since being acquired has been quite a deal better than any defensive unit during Hedman's development.

I just don’t get the rush to signing him this summer. They had months to do that before they had to worry about an arbitrator getting involved and would have had an opportunity to see him carry out the extra responsibilities.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I think the doom over Serg's contract is a bit overblown. He had a great playoffs and is only 24. Dude has all the tools - just needs to put it together consistently. As for his point totals, you stick him on that PP1 and he has over 50 points a year easily.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Hedman was playing on top pairing then. Sergachev hasn't really done that to this point (for significant time). Not saying he can't but he hasn't yet. I get it takes longer for defenseman to fully mature and maybe Sergachev has more been about opportunity since Hedman and McDonagh were the top 2 in front of him. But the defense Sergachev has been a part of since being acquired has been quite a deal better than any defensive unit during Hedman's development.

I just don’t get the rush to signing him this summer. They had months to do that before they had to worry about an arbitrator getting involved and would have had an opportunity to see him carry out the extra responsibilities.

if i had to guess (since all three got done so quickly) is this was all pre-arranged and probably why they signed bridge deals first.

 

[Stammertime91]

if i had to guess (since all three got done so quickly) is this was all pre-arranged and probably why they signed bridge deals first.

From what Brisebois said, it was done by noon so he knew what he had to work with. I imagine even prior to that they had pretty solid numbers to go off of.

Not so sure about the bridge deals a couple years ago theory. Those were typical Tampa "steals" that aligned with keeping the team together as much as possible. This just seemed like payday and a passing of the torch from team friendly to market value. Not a fan considering how this can affect other players in the future.

 

[CupsOverCash]

It's going to hurt to lose mcd and Palat but league is getting younger, faster, skilled etc. Something tells me they will still remain competitive and figure things out but this year might be tough losing those two.

 

[The Macho King]

im going to disagree with this and state that hedman and serge's path to the contract was eerily similar. hedman had not really established himself in the league prior to the 2015 playoffs when he played as a #1 that year, and took us to a SCF we ultimately lost in six games to a team with a bonafid #1 that outplayed hedman (keith). serge also has not truly separated himself from other upper tier defenseman prior to the playoffs but took us to a SCF (albeit with hedman, although he was clearly not playing to his usual capabilities) against a team we lost to in six with a bonafid #1 outplaying serge (makar).

serge's playoffs is why we made the SCF. rutta was benched in the first round, McD was terrible, Cernak was hurt for most of it, hedman was just not himself, and bogo was bogo. especially in the finals no one was logging minutes like serge. just my thoughts

I'd also point out that Hedman didn't get #1 PP time until the 2015 season. The biggest difference was Hedman kept getting benched for guys like Marc Andre Bergeron and Sami Salo while Sergachev is behind a hall of famer. So yeah - situations are similar but developing like Hedman is still the literal best case scenario.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I think the doom over Serg's contract is a bit overblown. He had a great playoffs and is only 24. Dude has all the tools - just needs to put it together consistently. As for his point totals, you stick him on that PP1 and he has over 50 points a year easily.

It was shocking in the moment but I think we've all come to accept it. Going higher term doesn't always mean you lower the AAV - we're buying his prime years, including UFA-eligible years.

 

[The Gongshow]

I'd also point out that Hedman didn't get #1 PP time until the 2015 season. The biggest difference was Hedman kept getting benched for guys like Marc Andre Bergeron and Sami Salo while Sergachev is behind a hall of famer. So yeah - situations are similar but developing like Hedman is still the literal best case scenario.

I think even setting expectations of a future Hedman are way to high. Hedman at his peak was the best dman in yhe league and Conn Smyth winner.

If Serg can develop into a #1 LD that can eat alot of minutes, provide some PP1 or 2 minutes then that would be acceptable. That said, the brain dead penalties and the sloppy play in their end has to stop. No one is perfect but he's got alot of clean up to his game still.

I like the offensive upside and the little bit of a mean streak in him tho. He's not all bad, just not 8.5 good, yet

 

[The Macho King]

I think even setting expectations of a future Hedman are way to high. Hedman at his peak was the best dman in yhe league and Conn Smyth winner.

If Serg can develop into a #1 LD that can eat alot of minutes, provide some PP1 or 2 minutes then that would be acceptable. That said, the brain dead penalties and the sloppy play in their end has to stop. No one is perfect but he's got alot of clean up to his game still.

I like the offensive upside and the little bit of a mean streak in him tho. He's not all bad, just not 8.5 good, yet

Absolutely. He's not going to turn into Hedman. Wasn't suggesting so.

 

[bov]

Just insane to see some people complaining about our offseason so far. What in the world do you want?

Our "next core" has been obvious for years now. JBB got them all done, at great value imo. To me, Cirelli and Cernak are steals while Sergachev comes in at around market value. Zero room for complaints on any of those deals.

Only thing I dislike is the smoke around Ian Cole, I just hope that's the internet hetting carried away because otherwise he is no man at all and I could never respect this signing. But in a vaccuum, he's a solid bottom pair LHD and clearly fits.

Love seeing Vladdy back, perfectly fair contract and has familiarity/ chemistry with some of the guys already.

Even the Fleury and Robert signings have some nice upside at no risk. So again...why in the hell would anyone have a problem with the moves made so far?

 

[Sky04]

Just insane to see some people complaining about our offseason so far. What in the world do you want?

Our "next core" has been obvious for years now. JBB got them all done, at great value imo. To me, Cirelli and Cernak are steals while Sergachev comes in at around market value. Zero room for complaints on any of those deals.

Only thing I dislike is the smoke around Ian Cole, I just hope that's the internet hetting carried away because otherwise he is no man at all and I could never respect this signing. But in a vaccuum, he's a solid bottom pair LHD and clearly fits.

Love seeing Vladdy back, perfectly fair contract and has familiarity/ chemistry with some of the guys already.

Even the Fleury and Robert signings have some nice upside at no risk. So again...why in the hell would anyone have a problem with the moves made so far?

What is Cirelli's "market value" if 6.25M is a "steal"?

 

[Todd1a]

Just insane to see some people complaining about our offseason so far. What in the world do you want?

Our "next core" has been obvious for years now. JBB got them all done, at great value imo. To me, Cirelli and Cernak are steals while Sergachev comes in at around market value. Zero room for complaints on any of those deals.

Only thing I dislike is the smoke around Ian Cole, I just hope that's the internet hetting carried away because otherwise he is no man at all and I could never respect this signing. But in a vaccuum, he's a solid bottom pair LHD and clearly fits.

Love seeing Vladdy back, perfectly fair contract and has familiarity/ chemistry with some of the guys already.

Even the Fleury and Robert signings have some nice upside at no risk. So again...why in the hell would anyone have a problem with the moves made so far?

I don’t have a problem with the moves and guess what we are still a cup contender! Go bolts

 

[DMB06]

Just insane to see some people complaining about our offseason so far. What in the world do you want?

Our "next core" has been obvious for years now. JBB got them all done, at great value imo. To me, Cirelli and Cernak are steals while Sergachev comes in at around market value. Zero room for complaints on any of those deals.

Only thing I dislike is the smoke around Ian Cole, I just hope that's the internet hetting carried away because otherwise he is no man at all and I could never respect this signing. But in a vaccuum, he's a solid bottom pair LHD and clearly fits.

Love seeing Vladdy back, perfectly fair contract and has familiarity/ chemistry with some of the guys already.

Even the Fleury and Robert signings have some nice upside at no risk. So again...why in the hell would anyone have a problem with the moves made so far?

You know why, you're just being argumentative.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The biggest off-season acquisition is a healthy Brayden Point and y’all know it.

 

[bov]

You know why, you're just being argumentative.

Feel free to post something of substance that details why our offseason is somehow bad.

What is Cirelli's "market value" if 6.25M is a "steal"?

One of the best 2 way players in the game already and in his low 20's. He's already clearly worth that AAV right now, let alone what it would look like once he settles into his prime.

 

[Todd1a]

That’s a pretty good deal

 

[DMB06]

Feel free to post something of substance that details why our offseason is somehow bad.


One of the best 2 way players in the game already and in his low 20's. He's already clearly worth that AAV right now, let alone what it would look like once he settles into his prime.

I've stated, multiple times in the last couple of pages, why I'm not thrilled with what has transpired. Not going over it again.

Also, to be "one of the best 2 way players", you need to be able to score consistently. Cirelli is not an offensive player, he's not great at finishing and this is confirmed by his lack of scoring throughout his career. His solid defense leads to breakaways and odd man rushes, which I guess makes some people believe he's a gifted offensive player, but all that matters is whether you score or not. He typically doesn't. Maybe that improves as his career goes along, but you didn't say he "will become" or "could develop into", you said "he is", which is a baseless claim.

Edit: And I'm not even TOO annoyed with his contract, it's mostly the Sergachev contract. He's, objectively, not an 8.5m defenseman. There's not a single aspect of his game that supports that kind of salary. Hedman is better in, literally, every single way and is now making less than Sergachev is. Unless and until Sergachev improves dramatically across the board, it will be an awful contract.

 

[Sky04]

One of the best 2 way players in the game already and in his low 20's. He's already clearly worth that AAV right now, let alone what it would look like once he settles into his prime.

You're right, we should be grateful Cierlli gave JBB such a massive discount.

 

[bov]

You're right, we should be grateful Cierlli gave JBB such a massive discount.

You're being sarcastic but yes, we should. He's a hell of a player and it's a very good deal. When cap continues to rise and he's in his prime, please circle back and tell me it's not a team-friendly deal.

 

[These Are The Days]

Cirelli's deal wasn't bad as much as I just wish we could get better than 3-5 goals out of the guy in the playoffs. Push it to 2 goals per series in a successful Cup run and he's worth every penny

 

[bov]

I've stated, multiple times in the last couple of pages, why I'm not thrilled with what has transpired. Not going over it again.

Also, to be "one of the best 2 way players", you need to be able to score consistently. Cirelli is not an offensive player, he's not great at finishing and this is confirmed by his lack of scoring throughout his career. His solid defense leads to breakaways and odd man rushes, which I guess makes some people believe he's a gifted offensive player, but all that matters is whether you score or not. He typically doesn't. Maybe that improves as his career goes along, but you didn't say he "will become" or "could develop into", you said "he is", which is a baseless claim.

Edit: And I'm not even TOO annoyed with his contract, it's mostly the Sergachev contract. He's, objectively, not an 8.5m defenseman. There's not a single aspect of his game that supports that kind of salary. Hedman is better in, literally, every single way and is now making less than Sergachev is. Unless and until Sergachev improves dramatically across the board, it will be an awful contract.

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

I am back after being banned yet again on the open series playoff game thread for stating the facts that Tampa is a better team than the NYR and our defense is superior to anything they faced. Vasy is better than Sman and they didn't like it... But we are retooling and going for a cup. Cole is a solid top 4 and Namsesikov is a top 9 forward. I think we will be okay and make the playoffs. I am concerned about Tony C and Sergachev contracts if they do not take a big step forward.

 

[Stammertime91]

I am back after being banned yet again on the open series playoff game thread for stating the facts that Tampa is a better team than the NYR and our defense is superior to anything they faced. Vasy is better than Sman and they didn't like it... But we are retooling and going for a cup. Cole is a solid top 4 and Namsesikov is a top 9 forward. I think we will be okay and make the playoffs. I am concerned about Tony C and Sergachev contracts if they do not take a big step forward.