Speculation: 2022 Off-Season | Dethroned: What next? - Part 2

[The Macho King]

You think McDonagh and Palat were gonna fall off cliffs this upcoming season? It’s not a vacuum where you can only have good young players. Yeah, we had some aging vets. But it’s not like they were a net negative on the team. Let’s ask this: next season, if we added a defenseman like Palat or McDonagh at the trade deadline, do you think we would be better equipped for a deep run? If the answer is yes, I seriously think we are making mistakes right now.

I totally understand keeping youth around. But when it undercuts the competitiveness of the team and harms our chances of winning the cup, that’s when you are just making foolish moves. With taht logic, should we jettison stamkos and hedman as soon as they get to their mid 30s? If they were in their mid 30s right now, would it be a good idea to trade them? Of course not.

Look, all I’m saying is that our perhaps most inconsistent defenseman is making more money than possibly the best defenseman in the league. And that we are no longer cup contenders with getting rid of McDonagh and Palat.

I think McDonagh took a f***ing swan dive off of that cliff in the playoffs.

Palat has a few more years in him and honestly I think he's going to age well. But he wanted to get his bag and props to him for doing so - he f***ing earned it.

But no team loses "Cup Contender" status after losing their like 6th and 9th best players. Depth is going to hurt a bit, but those are not irreplaceable roles. It's not like we're losing f***ing Hedman here.

And Stamkos and Hedman are both no doubt first ballot hall of famers, with Hedman making a legitimate run for top 20 defenseman in the history of hockey. McDonagh is not that. Palat is not that.

God damn when did McDonagh get so overrated?

 

[RussianGuyovich]

i legitimately believe that McD cost us a cup and you nerds are crying over him leaving, lmao. bro could not clear the zone during a PK in any of the rounds. JBB practically tripped over his own dick to get rid of him ASAP

 

[Hoek]

bro could not clear the zone during a PK in any of the rounds.

I think more highly of him than you but I agree this drove me absolutely bonkers.

It’s not a vacuum where you can only have good young players

With the cap it kind of is, though. If we kept McD and Palat then some of the young players gotta go.

 

[Sky04]

What was the cap when Hedman and Stamkos signed?

Stamkos the cap was like 71 million. When Hedman signed it was like 73 when the contract went into effect?

Saying "Sergachev makes more than players who were signed six years ago" doesn't really say shit.

And McDonagh and Palat are both over 30 (McDonagh very much so). Realize that aging curves make it likely that they stop being positive value players sooner rather than later.

75m when Hedmans contract kicked in so unless our cap is jumping up 3M next year they'll have roughly the same cap hit % except that's after 4 years of being a #1 defenseman along with 2 top-3 Norris finishes for Hedman when he signed.

Sergachevs contract is awful, no way around it. He's within 1M of what Makar, Fox and McAvoy make while those guys are actually #1 defenseman.

 

[Wester]

No you don’t. No way you do. What do you think stamkos and hedman and whoever else think right now? Right after a finals loss, stamkos said we aren’t done. JBB seems to think we are. This roster will not go far in the playoffs. We could have kept our solid players and worried about our future later, like we have been doing the last few years. Showing our good players the door is something you do when you are rebuilding, not contending for a cup.

As sky mentioned, if I’m stamkos and hedman, I’m pissed off I left money on the table if I’m not going to be on a competitive team anymore.

Good thing that Chicago pick is top 10 protected then.

 

[The Macho King]

75m when Hedmans contract kicked in so unless our cap is jumping up 3M next year they'll have roughly the same cap hit % except that's after 4 years of being a #1 defenseman along with 2 top-3 Norris finishes for Hedman when he signed.

Sergachevs contract is awful, no way around it. He's within 1M of what Makar, Fox and McAvoy make while those guys are actually #1 defenseman.

Hedman signed his contract on July 1, 2016. At that time, his highest Norris finish was 7th. He did come off an insane playoff run though.

I'm not arguing that this contract is "good" though. I'm arguing that if you're going to overpay a player, overpay a 24 year old and not a 34 year old.

 

[Wester]

I think more highly of him than you but I agree this drove me absolutely bonkers.


With the cap it kind of is, though. If we kept McD and Palat then some of the young players gotta go.

Yea McD would have had to go next year and we would have probably had to pay assets for that, which we already have very few.

 

[Felonious Python]

If we had more cap, Palat and McD would probably still be here. Goodrow and Coleman would probably be here. Gourde would be here without the expansion draft. But Perry might not be here. Nick Paul wouldn't be here. The potential in Brandon Hagel wouldn't be here.

 

[Fabiobest]

Fox...?
I read my bad posts about him when we met the Rangers a months ago or so...when I was worried.
Now he is an elite player, because of Sergachev deal.
Come on...

 

[Sky04]

Fox...?
I read my bad posts about him when we met the Rangers a months ago or so...when I was worried.
Now he is an elite player, because of Sergachev deal.
Come on...

Yeah you're right Fox is not an elite player because you wrote bad posts about him for 4 games.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Fox...?
I read my bad posts about him when we met the Rangers a months ago or so...when I was worried.
Now he is an elite player, because of Sergachev deal.
Come on.

agreed. it has to be announcer influence, since they slobbered all over Fox during the playoffs when he seemed just serviceable. also everytime serge was mentioned it was a negative (i recognize he makes mistakes)

 

[The Macho King]

agreed. it has to be announcer influence, since they slobbered all over Fox during the playoffs when he seemed just serviceable. also everytime serge was mentioned it was a negative (i recognize he makes mistakes)

I mean he's no Mat Barzal.

To the extent I have a concern with Sergachev, it's that his offense has dried up in the playoffs. Goals from Dmen are always going to be streaky - they're by nature taking low percentage shots. But maybe it's being risk averse or maybe it's something else, because I feel like he's less assertive in the NZ and OZ in the playoffs than he is during the regular season.

 

[The Gongshow]

How much cap we got?
Gotta make room for Kessel on a 1 year deal

 

[Fabiobest]

Yeah you're right Fox is not an elite player because you wrote bad posts about him for 4 games.

If he was an elite player, you all would have paid a little bit respect for him.
But yeah, now he's a stellar dman...in a couple of months he will be a "why the f*** have we allowed him to score/do assists...? He is so bad".
In May he's bad.
In July he's elite.
Let's see who he is in September and in October.
I'm curious.

agreed. it has to be announcer influence, since they slobbered all over Fox during the playoffs when he seemed just serviceable. also everytime serge was mentioned it was a negative (i recognize he makes mistakes)

For sure Serge made mistakes I don't want to see anymore.
But change opinion every second on a player, because of one of our deal, is just sad imo.

 

[J T Money]

I’m indifferent about the signings of our RFA’s. They’ll suck in the first 2 years and be great for the last 2 years.

But giving Namestnikov 2.5m is brutal

 

[These Are The Days]

How much cap we got?
Gotta make room for Kessel on a 1 year deal

Don't tease me like that. I'll take what help we can get and you can do worse than Phil on a Shattenkirk strategy

 

[Felonious Python]

I’m indifferent about the signings of our RFA’s. They’ll suck in the first 2 years and be great for the last 2 years.

But giving Namestnikov 2.5m is brutal

2.5x1 isn't too bad for a 16 goalscorer, especially when we also have his coach from last year, when he did most of it.

 

[Stammertime91]

Our defensive pairings are shambolic. Such a hole in the top 4 at RD.

 

[ThunderRoad]

What was the cap when Hedman and Stamkos signed?

Stamkos the cap was like 71 million. When Hedman signed it was like 73 when the contract went into effect?

Saying "Sergachev makes more than players who were signed six years ago" doesn't really say shit.

And McDonagh and Palat are both over 30 (McDonagh very much so). Realize that aging curves make it likely that they stop being positive value players sooner rather than later.

While rightfully the dollar amount will vary, the percentage of the salary against the cap is practically equivalent. When Stamkos and Hedman signed their deals (particularly Hedman), they had proven they were elite and therefore could have gotten more during free agency. They did take team friendly deals to help out in signing other talent.

Sergachev has now signed for the same cap percentage on what Tampa hopes he can attain, not what he has proven to this point, let alone showing he can maintain that level during the contract. Injuries aside since that can't be predicted (although some guys could show a history of being more injury prone), Hedman for sure showed he was worth every cent of that contract (and more) by his past level of play. For Sergachev, he signed this before getting there, and now Tampa hopes he can achieve it. This is a contract signed on potential not evidence, and that is different from the long term contracts Tampa has given out to this point.

And in a couple of years when Hedman's contract comes due and he is hopefully still playing at top level, what AAV is it going to take to re-sign him? Hopefully, he'll be a Tom Brady level guy that continues to leave money on the table to help ice the most competitive team possible.

Again, I don’t see why Tampa had to sign Sergachev this summer to that contract and not sometime during the upcoming season, before arbitration and after he had proven his new responsibilities, he is ready to handle and handle them effectively. What was the need to do it now and not 6-8 months from now? Maybe the AAV would still be the same, but would make more sense after some of that additional potential had been demonstrated.

 

[The Gongshow]

Our defensive pairings are shambolic. Such a hole in the top 4 at RD.

Hoping Foote can take take some steps this year. He looked solid at times, but obviously skating is an issue. He actually was surprising at zone exits and entries a few times, which was nice to see

 

[Byrddog]

Sergi’s game is still improving is his development behind what Heddy was at the age yeah but he has been sheltered. He still has a brain fart once or twice a game that’s concerning. The things that’s inexcusable is how many ignorant penalties he takes. There are times a defenseman has to take a penalty but his slashing and cross checking stood out this year. But overall he is a solid guy in the blue line. Hell comparing him to Heddy all the time the guy has no chance. Heddy has been a top defenseman in the league for a number of years.

Vasi was off the entire playoffs that hurt and the scoring was hit and miss. The last two cups each night you had top line scoring and secondary scoring as well. This is the reason the team will not be seen as a cup contender next year. Can the core get them in to the postseason sure they can. But expecting this roster to make a deep run is not reasonable. And again for all the love JBB has received he was managing the team he inherited. Now is the test can he retool on the fly to get another run at the cup for Stammer and Heddy? Hmmmm I’m not sure. The pipeline is bare the guys he got from Nashville are not quality players, any

 

[Stammertime91]

Hoping Foote can take take some steps this year. He looked solid at times, but obviously skating is an issue. He actually was surprising at zone exits and entries a few times, which was nice to see

Even if Foote takes some steps there's the cloud looming overhead regarding Team Canada. If he's involved, I imagine we probably release/trade him. We're taking an absolute flier on Myers being capable of playing. Aside from that, my hope is that Perbix who some are betting on to make the team, actually does.

 

[Sky04]

Even if Foote takes some steps there's the cloud looming overhead regarding Team Canada. If he's involved, I imagine we probably release/trade him. We're taking an absolute flier on Myers being capable of playing. Aside from that, my hope is that Perbix who some are betting on to make the team, actually does.

I think Foote was cleared the other day.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Sergachev has now signed for the same cap percentage on what Tampa hopes he can attain, not what he has proven to this point, let alone showing he can maintain that level during the contract. Injuries aside since that can't be predicted (although some guys could show a history of being more injury prone), Hedman for sure showed he was worth every cent of that contract (and more) by his past level of play. For Sergachev, he signed this before getting there, and now Tampa hopes he can achieve it. This is a contract signed on potential not evidence, and that is different from the long term contracts Tampa has given out to this point.

im going to disagree with this and state that hedman and serge's path to the contract was eerily similar. hedman had not really established himself in the league prior to the 2015 playoffs when he played as a #1 that year, and took us to a SCF we ultimately lost in six games to a team with a bonafid #1 that outplayed hedman (keith). serge also has not truly separated himself from other upper tier defenseman prior to the playoffs but took us to a SCF (albeit with hedman, although he was clearly not playing to his usual capabilities) against a team we lost to in six with a bonafid #1 outplaying serge (makar).

serge's playoffs is why we made the SCF. rutta was benched in the first round, McD was terrible, Cernak was hurt for most of it, hedman was just not himself, and bogo was bogo. especially in the finals no one was logging minutes like serge. just my thoughts

 

[Wester]

im going to disagree with this and state that hedman and serge's path to the contract was eerily similar. hedman had not really established himself in the league prior to the 2015 playoffs when he played as a #1 that year, and took us to a SCF we ultimately lost in six games to a team with a bonafid #1 that outplayed hedman (keith). serge also has not truly separated himself from other upper tier defenseman prior to the playoffs but took us to a SCF (albeit with hedman, although he was clearly not playing to his usual capabilities) against a team we lost to in six with a bonafid #1 outplaying serge (makar).

serge's playoffs is why we made the SCF. rutta was benched in the first round, McD was terrible, Cernak was hurt for most of it, hedman was just not himself, and bogo was bogo. especially in the finals no one was logging minutes like serge. just my thoughts

Serg was easily our best D-man yeah