Speculation: 2022 Off-Season | Dethroned: What next? - Part 2

[Felonious Python]

CapFriendly's calculator results in 441k in cap space if we demote Fleury and trade Seabrook's contract. (Celery and Bogo stay on regular IR)

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Eh we barely have any f***ing draft picks to trade anyway. I would like to get out of that Seabrook contract - don't know why we didn't send a 5th or something to Arizona to take it. Unless - and I think there's a chance of this - insurance may not be covering much of this contract.

We just paid Seabrook his last big bonus. So even if it isn't covered by insurance, there's only $5.5M owed for two years of a $6.875M cap hit. Could definitely see that being attractive for Arizona. They're roughly $2M under the cap floor and are still trying to trade Chychrun with only Crowse and Hayton holding out.

On our end it's not worth giving up a high pick because the accrued cap space is going to end up being marginal this year. I could see us revisiting it next offseason though.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Doesn’t he have a modified no trade clause, making him tradeable to the right team.

I would like to get out of thst contract if possible.

This is the problem. He has to submit a 5 team trade list, which presumably will be all no state tax teams. Next year he submits a 10 team list which makes it more possible.

 

[Felonious Python]

If we're in our window, keep Seabrook on LTIR, and sign some guys on short term deals.

 

[The Macho King]

If we're in our window, keep Seabrook on LTIR, and sign some guys on short term deals.

The biggest issue is it kinda ties our hands on deadline deals. 441k in cap space ends up becoming a couple of million in deadline space.

It's one of those things where when we look at the assets it would take to pull off a double-retention three team trade, does it make more sense to just move Seabrook. Might not be an option, just kind of shocked it hasn't happened.

 

[Felonious Python]

The biggest issue is it kinda ties our hands on deadline deals. 441k in cap space ends up becoming a couple of million in deadline space.

It's one of those things where when we look at the assets it would take to pull off a double-retention three team trade, does it make more sense to just move Seabrook. Might not be an option, just kind of shocked it hasn't happened.

There are unsigned guys now that we can get for just money.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I mean even with where we are now with a couple of smart moves and if the right guys are healthy when it matters next year they could make another run. It's not like rest of east has improved that much and we still have top end at each position. I agree with others that say let's see how this shakes out. First round exit wouldn't shock me either and I'm not saying regular season will be pretty but I guess wouldn't be shocked with another deep run either.

 

[Rschmitz]

The biggest issue is it kinda ties our hands on deadline deals. 441k in cap space ends up becoming a couple of million in deadline space.

It's one of those things where when we look at the assets it would take to pull off a double-retention three team trade, does it make more sense to just move Seabrook. Might not be an option, just kind of shocked it hasn't happened.

They probably figure we have nothing left anyways to trade for help

 

[AHockeyFanatic]

I mean even with where we are now with a couple of smart moves and if the right guys are healthy when it matters next year they could make another run. It's not like rest of east has improved that much and we still have top end at each position. I agree with others that say let's see how this shakes out. First round exit wouldn't shock me either and I'm not saying regular season will be pretty but I guess wouldn't be shocked with another deep run either.

I’m thinking the run is more likely next year, not this year. As someone mentioned we seem like a middle of the pack contender as is with what we have for this year. Let’s see if Vasi has a better year he was very average as far as save percentage and was hot and cold at times this past year. Amazingly we still were 2 games away from a 3-pete. We must also consider Stamkos had a pretty nice year himself, can he replicate it? Is Killorn done, Will Serg/Cirelli step up offensively? Will the rentals do anything?

 

[Sky04]

I’m thinking the run is more likely next year, not this year. As someone mentioned we seem like a middle of the pack contender as is with what we have for this year. Let’s see if Vasi has a better year he was very average as far as save percentage and was hot and cold at times this past year. Amazingly we still were 2 games away from a 3-pete. We must also consider Stamkos had a pretty nice year himself, can he replicate it? Is Killorn done, Will Serg/Cirelli step up offensively? Will the rentals do anything?

No, next year there's even less depth because that's when the extensions kick in. We'd have a far better chance this year. Next year we have roughly 11.5M to fill 8-9 roster spots which means your depth is mostly going to be league minimum players as we'd still have to re-sign Colton with that number.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think we can do it. Man I thought this last year we'd be swamped but they managed themselves pretty well for most part. Played smart hockey and vasi was vasi when needed. They've been clutch. I mean they got it in them.

 

[Todd1a]

They probably figure we have nothing left anyways to trade for help

We don’t have a picks or prospects anymore to trade for help lol

 

[These Are The Days]

We don’t have a picks or prospects anymore to trade for help lol

It's not too late to trade Killorn

 

[JTBF81]

With the more constrained cap issues looming next offseason, an argument could certainly be made to have kept the defense as intact as possible for one more run this season. Keeping McD for one more season may have ended up being a mistake when they then had to move him after next season, but he had just turned 33, not 37 or 38, and still had 1 or 2 good years left imo. I know there was some regression these playoffs, but hard to say how much of that was McD having lost a step vs a combination of injury and how many tough minutes he had logged the past couple seasons.

I get the reasoning for moving him now as JBB is doing a tricky balancing act to keep the team's window open as long as possible, although the value of the Serg contract is crippling for a couple of years in terms of being able to acquire higher quality depth, and mid to long term it was probably right. However, If the team had been willing to hold McD one more year and accept the even weaker return that likely would've resulted from that decision, they could've still signed Fleury as a 6/7 type and signed a bottom 6 F like Janmark, Blackwell etc to help fill out the F group for this year. Not saying a player in this range would've been an amazing signing, but they would've bolstered the 3rd line and moved Hagel to a top 6 role.for sure, which is where he excelled in Chicago.

At full strength, the team could've looked like:
Hagel-Stamkos-Kuch
Killorn-Point-Colton
Paul-Cirelli-Janmark/Blackwell type
Maroon-PEB-Perry
ABB/Koepke
(The F lines would likely need some juggling, just a rough framework)

Hedman-Bogo
McD-Cernak
Serg-Foote
Fleury(with Perbix and Day as call ups)

Vasi
Elliott
Not saying this team would've been demonstrably better than what Tampa will ice at full strength this year, but could've been a different path to take.

 

[Rschmitz]

It's not too late to trade Killorn

Been holding on to that for like 5 years now

 

[mouser]

We just paid Seabrook his last big bonus. So even if it isn't covered by insurance, there's only $5.5M owed for two years of a $6.875M cap hit. Could definitely see that being attractive for Arizona. They're roughly $2M under the cap floor and are still trying to trade Chychrun with only Crowse and Hayton holding out.

On our end it's not worth giving up a high pick because the accrued cap space is going to end up being marginal this year. I could see us revisiting it next offseason though.

I believe Seabrook is insured at 60%, which would mean $2.2m in actual cash remaining. The approximate cost for dumping that amount of cash should be something like Tampa's 2024 2nd + some other smaller asset like a 3rd/4th or mid tier prospect with that approximate value.

This is the problem. He has to submit a 5 team trade list, which presumably will be all no state tax teams. Next year he submits a 10 team list which makes it more possible.

Doesn't matter. Seabrook can live wherever he wants and collect his paychecks. I doubt he even lives in Florida.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I believe Seabrook is insured at 60%, which would mean $2.2m in actual cash remaining. The approximate cost for dumping that amount of cash should be something like Tampa's 2024 2nd + some other smaller asset like a 3rd/4th or mid tier prospect with that approximate value.



Doesn't matter. Seabrook can live wherever he wants and collect his paychecks. I doubt he even lives in Florida.

Thanks for the clarification. I always appreciate your input on CBA matters.

 

[Todd1a]

It's not too late to trade Killorn

Not only is he not moving I’d bet JBB does an extension for him lol

 

[HoseEmDown]

There's no reason to trade Seabrook this season. We can use his LTIR and get under the cap with a move or two before the season starts. He's also owed a 2M bonus next season so a team will want us to pay that. After we pay his bonus next year at 60% insured a team will owe him just 1M cash for nearly 7M in cap. We should be able to dump that for future considerations like the Bishop or Boychuk deals.

 

[Wester]

With the more constrained cap issues looming next offseason, an argument could certainly be made to have kept the defense as intact as possible for one more run this season. Keeping McD for one more season may have ended up being a mistake when they then had to move him after next season, but he had just turned 33, not 37 or 38, and still had 1 or 2 good years left imo. I know there was some regression these playoffs, but hard to say how much of that was McD having lost a step vs a combination of injury and how many tough minutes he had logged the past couple seasons.

I get the reasoning for moving him now as JBB is doing a tricky balancing act to keep the team's window open as long as possible, although the value of the Serg contract is crippling for a couple of years in terms of being able to acquire higher quality depth, and mid to long term it was probably right. However, If the team had been willing to hold McD one more year and accept the even weaker return that likely would've resulted from that decision, they could've still signed Fleury as a 6/7 type and signed a bottom 6 F like Janmark, Blackwell etc to help fill out the F group for this year. Not saying a player in this range would've been an amazing signing, but they would've bolstered the 3rd line and moved Hagel to a top 6 role.for sure, which is where he excelled in Chicago.

At full strength, the team could've looked like:
Hagel-Stamkos-Kuch
Killorn-Point-Colton
Paul-Cirelli-Janmark/Blackwell type
Maroon-PEB-Perry
ABB/Koepke
(The F lines would likely need some juggling, just a rough framework)

Hedman-Bogo
McD-Cernak
Serg-Foote
Fleury(with Perbix and Day as call ups)

Vasi
Elliott
Not saying this team would've been demonstrably better than what Tampa will ice at full strength this year, but could've been a different path to take.

Re McDonagh: This was the weaker return. Next year we would have to pay assets cause we dont have the option to keep him anymore, so we have less leverage. Also we shouldnt forget that teams could have offer sheeted our RFAs easily tying our hands more.

 

[The Macho King]

Re McDonagh: This was the weaker return. Next year we would have to pay assets cause we dont have the option to keep him anymore, so we have less leverage. Also we shouldnt forget that teams could have offer sheeted our RFAs easily tying our hands more.

There's also the cost certainty aspect of it. I can't remember the precise rule, but you're limited in how much commitment you can have the next offseason with contracts. Maybe keeping McDonagh around would have made it tougher to extend all three RFAs.

 

[Outl4w]

We just paid Seabrook his last big bonus. So even if it isn't covered by insurance, there's only $5.5M owed for two years of a $6.875M cap hit. Could definitely see that being attractive for Arizona. They're roughly $2M under the cap floor and are still trying to trade Chychrun with only Crowse and Hayton holding out.

On our end it's not worth giving up a high pick because the accrued cap space is going to end up being marginal this year. I could see us revisiting it next offseason though.

Kilhorn and Seabrook for Crowse make it happen. Gives us some space to add a top 6 forward before or at TDL.

 

[Felonious Python]

I'd rather exhaust the free agent possibilities before trading Seabrook.

We need a RW preferably.

Current UFA. Some are old, or inconsistent, or would be reclamation projects, but
Kessel, Stastny, Rodrigues, Milano, Heinen, Gagner, Donato, Ennis, Dahlen, Chiasson, Rask, Larsson, Boyle, Galchenyuk, Steel, Sprong, Stepan, Brassard, Aston-Reese, E. Svechnikov, Motte, Vesey, Eakin

As for where to potentially trade Seabrook, if Anaheim had anything, I'd think they'd be one, but Vegas might be a spot. They give guys up for free because they don't have any cap.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

The east is up in the air. The only major threat to us overall at this point is Colorado, and they have a huge question mark in net now, and depth pieces have hit the market. If I could package Seabrook with a B prospect or AHL lifer i'd do it but it just isn't worth it at this point.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

That's your honest assessment of Point - "he has settled into... wait for it... being about a 60 point player"...??

You say I "cherry picked" Point's 90 point season, like I was misrepresenting?

What you call a "60 point player" is actually a .88 point per game player in the regular season and a 1.02 point per game player in the post season and the leading playoff goal scorer two of the last three years. Also has a better career +- than Cirelli. No coincidence we didn't win the cup without him.

"Again, go ahead and find me a selke-caliber top 9 center like Cirelli or a top four defender with playoff experience like Sergachev on the open market and see what it costs."

That's one of the key points - they WEREN'T on the open market, they were restricted free agents, meaning we had more negotiating leverage than if we were bidding against other teams on the open market.

But, let's compare Cirelli with the rest of the Selke candidates since that's what you're hanging your hat on:

Patrice Bergegon, number one center, multiple Selke winner, of many 30 and 20 goal seasons, great on faceoffs, only makes .5 mil more than Cirelli!

Barkov makes 10 mil AAV, another number one center, another actual Selke winner, has had 70, 80, 90 seasons. is very good on faceoffs.

Elias Lindholm, 40 goal scorer with another 78 point season, top 3 selke candidate, 50+% on faceoffs, is still on a 4.8 mil contract for two more years!

I feel so much better about this now!

I don't give a shit about how you feel?

First of all, I'm not "interpreting his words", he, verbatim, said he needs to take better care of the puck and score more goals. He literally laughed when he said he needs to score more than seven, which is what he had last year. And as everyone with an IQ above three knows, he needs to vastly improve defensively as well.

And it doesn't matter who's available right now, because he wasn't a FA. He has 36 goals in 362 regular season games, and 8 goals in 92 playoff games. He had three total points in the playoffs in 2020/21, with no goals in 23 games. This season, he had 2 goals in 23 playoff games. In other words, in his last 46 playoff games, he has scored in two of them. I think your standard for what constitutes production is much lower than mine.

He's a good player getting paid as if he's an elite player. If failing to score in 44 of your last 46 playoff games is elite, then I guess everyone is elite. He doesn't deserve 8.5m, stomp your foot and throw a tantrum over that fact all you'd like, it will remain a fact until he significantly improves his play.

No tantrum, just like that other nutsack I really don't give a shit how you feel about the signing and its a shame both of you are too dense to realize that.

He is getting the 2022 version of the Hedman contract - the same one I had to watch you goombas come out of the woodwork for in 2016 and tell everyone that its bad.