Speculation: 2022 Off-Season | Dethroned: What next? - Part 2

[These Are The Days]

Kris Draper Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Kris Draper. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

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Draper never got particularly close to 30 goals. He hit 24 goals in a spike year but never got more than 15 in any other season. Hell, the majority of seasons he didn't even hit 30 points. His best f***ing season is 40 points, which Cirelli gets in his sleep.

And if you look at his TOI, he was not used heavily. He was a 4th line player most years. A great fourth line player who could be a third liner on most teams, but he was mostly a 4th line player.

This discussion is f***ing dumb.

Didn't he get traded for a dollar too?

 

[Outl4w]

Kris Draper Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Kris Draper. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Draper never got particularly close to 30 goals. He hit 24 goals in a spike year but never got more than 15 in any other season. Hell, the majority of seasons he didn't even hit 30 points. His best f***ing season is 40 points, which Cirelli gets in his sleep.

And if you look at his TOI, he was not used heavily. He was a 4th line player most years. A great fourth line player who could be a third liner on most teams, but he was mostly a 4th line player.

This discussion is f***ing dumb.

I thought he hit 33 one year. I was wrong maybe that was his jersey number.
We got a slightly less proven scorer than Trocheck and paid more I think Cirelli is a little better defensively. Lets hope Cirelli evolves to a player better than Trocheck. Cirelli has a better +/- but is worse in the faceoff dot. I hope JBB got this right and I believe in him and the team. Lets earn that contract Tony C and Sergachev.

 

[J T Money]

Look at it like this, if these guys don’t live up to their contracts, we won’t be winning any more cups.

 

[DMB06]

I really don't give a shit how you interpret his words, thats on you. Find me guys on the open market that have playoff experience, production, and minute eating capabilities that he does that you can sign right now. Go for it, i'll wait.

First of all, I'm not "interpreting his words", he, verbatim, said he needs to take better care of the puck and score more goals. He literally laughed when he said he needs to score more than seven, which is what he had last year. And as everyone with an IQ above three knows, he needs to vastly improve defensively as well.

And it doesn't matter who's available right now, because he wasn't a FA. He has 36 goals in 362 regular season games, and 8 goals in 92 playoff games. He had three total points in the playoffs in 2020/21, with no goals in 23 games. This season, he had 2 goals in 23 playoff games. In other words, in his last 46 playoff games, he has scored in two of them. I think your standard for what constitutes production is much lower than mine.

He's a good player getting paid as if he's an elite player. If failing to score in 44 of your last 46 playoff games is elite, then I guess everyone is elite. He doesn't deserve 8.5m, stomp your foot and throw a tantrum over that fact all you'd like, it will remain a fact until he significantly improves his play.

 

[JoVel]

Look at it like this, if these guys don’t live up to their contracts, we won’t be winning any more cups.

I don't think we'll be winning any more cups in 3-4 years time even if we had signed each of those guys for 2 mil less.

 

[DFC]

I thought he hit 33 one year. I was wrong maybe that was his jersey number.
We got a slightly less proven scorer than Trocheck and paid more I think Cirelli is a little better defensively. Lets hope Cirelli evolves to a player better than Trocheck. Cirelli has a better +/- but is worse in the faceoff dot. I hope JBB got this right and I believe in him and the team. Lets earn that contract Tony C and Sergachev.
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The thing about Cirelli is he can take the other team's best offensive weapon away. That's very valuable, IMO. The Draper comparison doesn't really work -- I think it worked a lot more for Yanni Gourde, actually. Gourde was better offensively, maybe a little worse defensively, and he played a very similar style. Cirelli has just enough offense to get him into the Selke conversation. Defensively he's about on par with Draper, but he has better offense. The weird thing about Cirelli, as was mentioned previously, is we've never really seen him strike up any serious chemistry with somebody.

To me the three contracts are a bit three bears-ish. I like Cernak's contract a lot because he's a good #3 defenseman who can handle tough assignments. I don't mind Cirelli's contract. I wish it had come in under 6, simply because we haven't seen the offensive side of his game mature as well as the D side. But 250k isn't the end of the world. It's an okay contract. Not a bargain.

The Sergachev contract scares me, because it reminds me of Toronto-style deals. We are paying him to not exactly be the player he is, but rather to be the player we hope he can become. I can't think of another home-grown talent who got this kind of contract based more on potential than accomplishments.

I mean, if Serg matures into a legit #2, the contract looks like a steal through his late twenties when the cap rises. I just don't like that we finally broke down and gave a guy the money before he showed he could handle the responsibility.

 

[Stammertime91]

+1 the negativity here right now would make you think you were on the Panthers board.

I'll never mistake our board for theirs. We mention cups we've won.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Ok guys let’s agree to a compromise: Brisebois shall henceforth be called “JF(F)B” until Serg proves he’s worth this contract.

Somebody else figure out where to put the asterisks though.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Look at it like this, if these guys don’t live up to their contracts, we won’t be winning any more cups.

I think its gonna take more than just them when the time comes. This group doesn't have the high end talent of the current core. They're gonna have to add that.

 

[Stammertime91]

Man if you all thought "We miss the Gourde line" was insufferable this year.

Gather round ye campfire children of the bay, for a little tale after losses;

"This team misses Palat and McDonagh desperately"

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I think people are seriously overlooking what Serg did this past postseason.

Pair that with the fact hes 24 years old and already is as battle tested as it gets.

One thing that we should never take for granted are players that we know we can go to war with and succeed. Serg has proven that - at only 24 years old.

Also, just to add: the second he takes over PP1 duties you can add an easy 20 points to his total. That would bump him up to 60 points this past year.

 

[Stammertime91]

I think its gonna take more than just them when the time comes. This group doesn't have the high end talent of the current core. They're gonna have to add that.

Wholeheartedly agree here. The future core can still include someone else we don't even have right now, but the ones we do have Serg, Cirelli, Point, Cernak from the younger wave need help. Point obviously the standout.

Though, I don't like excluding Kucherov or Vasy because both can still have another 5-8 years of being near the top. But it's tougher to identify which core those two are in given their age, style and position.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Wholeheartedly agree here. The future core can still include someone else we don't even have right now, but the ones we do have Serg, Cirelli, Point, Cernak from the younger wave need help. Point obviously the standout.

Though, I don't like excluding Kucherov or Vasy because both can still have another 5-8 years of being near the top. But it's tougher to identify which core those two are in given their age, style and position.

Yeah - thats tricky. Stamkos and Hedman are obviously the current. I'd put Kuch in there too. All three of them will probably be around in 3-4 years but they will be older and more beat up.

Point can be in either group (26 yr).

Either way, they're gonna have to add point production to the next group. An old and weathered Stamkos/Hedman/Kuch aren't gonna be able to deliver the massive amount of points that they do now for us.

 

[Sky04]

Man if you all thought "We miss the Gourde line" was insufferable this year.

Gather round ye campfire children of the bay, for a little tale after losses;

"This team misses Palat and McDonagh desperately"

Nah they ain't going to top you on that all last year.

 

[Stammertime91]

Yeah - thats tricky. Stamkos and Hedman are obviously the current. I'd put Kuch in there too. All three of them will probably be around in 3-4 years but they will be older and more beat up.

Point can be in either group (26 yr).

Either way, they're gonna have to add point production to the next group. An old and weathered Stamkos/Hedman/Kuch aren't gonna be able to deliver the massive amount of points that they do now for us.

Kuch: this is #1 bullshit, hold my vodka

Idk. Give me 34 year old Kucherov in projections over a lot of mid 30s players today. Kuch doesn't need to be fast. His vision and IQ will spare him into the late 30s imo.

 

[OffBy1]

How do you play 23 easy minutes a game? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve read.

You don't have to put your own "dumb" words in my mouth, just say you disagree.

I said Sergachev's 23 minutes were "easier" minutes that those Hedman was playing at this point in his career - the obvious context to anyone who knows this year's roster being Serge had Hedman, McD, and Cernak in front of him facing the tougher opponents. Hedman at that age only had Stralman as a partner and no one else to be sheltered behind. Get it? Take your time.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

You don't have to put your own "dumb" words in my mouth, just say you disagree.

I said Sergachev's 23 minutes were "easier" minutes that those Hedman was playing at this point in his career - the obvious context to anyone who knows this year's roster being Serge had Hedman, McD, and Cernak in front of him facing the tougher opponents. Hedman at that age only had Stralman as a partner and no one else to be sheltered behind. Get it? Take your time.

Lol you are ridiculous. You play 23 minutes a game, solely against weaker competition? Are you f***ing dense? Do you remember why Stralman was here? It was so Hedman could finally open up offensively. Stralman was there to babysit Hedman. Meanwhile Sergachev is now a babysitter. He babysits Bogo and Foote. When Schenn was here, it let him open up and we saw more offense from him. Its like Sergachev slept with your partner. I don't have to put dumb words in your mouth, you are consistently are doing it every time you open your mouth.

 

[OffBy1]

Again, go ahead and find me a selke-caliber top 9 center like Cirelli or a top four defender with playoff experience like Sergachev on the open market and see what it costs.


He isn't just as good as Cirelli defensively but they're also not being asked to play the same roles. Good to cherry pick Points 92 point season, when he has settled into... wait for it... being about a 60 point player.

That's your honest assessment of Point - "he has settled into... wait for it... being about a 60 point player"...??

You say I "cherry picked" Point's 90 point season, like I was misrepresenting?

What you call a "60 point player" is actually a .88 point per game player in the regular season and a 1.02 point per game player in the post season and the leading playoff goal scorer two of the last three years. Also has a better career +- than Cirelli. No coincidence we didn't win the cup without him.

"Again, go ahead and find me a selke-caliber top 9 center like Cirelli or a top four defender with playoff experience like Sergachev on the open market and see what it costs."

That's one of the key points - they WEREN'T on the open market, they were restricted free agents, meaning we had more negotiating leverage than if we were bidding against other teams on the open market.

But, let's compare Cirelli with the rest of the Selke candidates since that's what you're hanging your hat on:

Patrice Bergegon, number one center, multiple Selke winner, of many 30 and 20 goal seasons, great on faceoffs, only makes .5 mil more than Cirelli!

Barkov makes 10 mil AAV, another number one center, another actual Selke winner, has had 70, 80, 90 seasons. is very good on faceoffs.

Elias Lindholm, 40 goal scorer with another 78 point season, top 3 selke candidate, 50+% on faceoffs, is still on a 4.8 mil contract for two more years!

I feel so much better about this now!

 

[OffBy1]

Lol you are ridiculous. You play 23 minutes a game, solely against weaker competition? Are you f***ing dense? Do you remember why Stralman was here? It was so Hedman could finally open up offensively. Stralman was there to babysit Hedman. Meanwhile Sergachev is now a babysitter. He babysits Bogo and Foote. When Schenn was here, it let him open up and we saw more offense from him. Its like Sergachev slept with your partner. I don't have to put dumb words in your mouth, you are consistently are doing it every time you open your mouth.

Can you get through a reply without a personal attack?

Are you telling me Cooper would choose Sergachev out there before he would put Hedman or McD?

The defensemen LEADING the team in ice time, playing a minute more a game than Stralman, playing 5 minutes more a game than the next defensemen, needed babysitting? That's as good a take as the other guy's "Point's a 60 point player".

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Can you get through a reply without a personal attack?

Are you telling me Cooper would choose Sergachev out there before he would put Hedman or McD?

The defensemen LEADING the team in ice time, playing a minute more a game than Stralman, playing 5 minutes more a game than the next defensemen, needed babysitting? That's as good a take as the other guy's "Point's a 60 point player".

Do you even know what you are talking about at this point? It just seems like you are angry typing because no one agrees with your asinine assertions. Let me slowly explain this...

Time difference for Stralman and Hedman's play time... its call the Power Play...SHOCKING RIGHT?!?!?!

Sergachev had get this...the second most TOI in the playoffs, and less than a minute a game on the PP.

Again, did he sleep with your wife/husband or something?

 

[Master P]

When Hedman signed his 8 year extension, he and Stralman were our top pairing and with Hedman leading the team with 23 minutes a night - 5 minutes more than our 2nd pairing defensemen. He had scored double digit goals three years in a row. His points per game were improving almost every year since his rookie year and he had recent 55 and 47 point seasons, majority of which was even strength scoring.

Serge has had one 40 point season - his rookie year - and played the 2nd most minutes a night at 23 last season (good), but on the third pairing, so they are easier minutes than what Hedman was playing at this point in his career.

Serge is a very good young defensemen, but how can this not be seen as a bigger gamble than we made on Hedman at this point in his career? That's why maybe JB should have fought longer for either less AAV or less years.

Comparing where Stamkos and Point were when they signed their 8 year deals vs Cirelli is going to look even worse.

What a weird reason to use an alt account.

 

[J T Money]

I don't think we'll be winning any more cups in 3-4 years time even if we had signed each of those guys for 2 mil less.

Possibly. Winning cups are hard.

I think its gonna take more than just them when the time comes. This group doesn't have the high end talent of the current core. They're gonna have to add that.

They’ll still have Vasilevsky, Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Stamkos. They seem like high end talent to play alongside the 3 RFAs.

 

[OffBy1]

Do you even know what you are talking about at this point? It just seems like you are angry typing because no one agrees with your asinine assertions. Let me slowly explain this...

Time difference for Stralman and Hedman's play time... its call the Power Play...SHOCKING RIGHT?!?!?!

Sergachev had get this...the second most TOI in the playoffs, and less than a minute a game on the PP.

Again, did he sleep with your wife/husband or something?

Stralman had slightly more PP minutes than Hedman in 2015-16, which was the last season before Hedman signed his 8 year extension, so try again - or better yet don't. The notion Hedman needed to be "babysat" when he was played 25 minutes a night is absurd. Because that's what NHL coaches do with their biggest defensive liabilities, right, play them 25 minutes a night?

Again, your well of hockey related points runs dry quickly, then it's back to the well of crass insults.

Why does it shock your psyche so deeply for fans to be concerned about these maximum commitment deals? I love Sergachev like most of the players on this team, but nothing will turn the majority of the fans against him faster than if he doesn't live up to this contract quickly. Same for Cirelli. They'll be viewed as loadstones, a la Brad Richards, who also had a great postseason right before he signed a big contract he never lived up to.

I'm definitely rooting for Sergachev to take some big steps forward the next couple seasons. We just haven't seen him do that in the last couple seasons so that's why my optimism is lacking. I'd LOVE for him and Cirelli to prove me wrong.

 

[T REX]

Just need to make the playoffs...we won'y know until then.

We looked downright awful at times this year and made the finals.

Playoffs or bust

 

[JoVel]

Just need to make the playoffs...we won'y know until then.

We looked downright awful at times this year and made the finals.

Playoffs or bust

I don't think anyone thinks we're not making the playoffs even if we're taking a big step back.