2022 Draft Discussion (after the trade)

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I’m not seeing this effusive praise for the selections either. Can’t it just be that they selected guys who have a long path ahead and not every selection is a home run or a terrible pick?
Seems to be the theme that it’s always a long path even when the Kings draft high. Don’t you think that’s weird and telling ?

Give an example of the boldfaced.
No, just pay attention to it for a week for that theme and you will surely see it. The scouting and drafting gets so much praise. Wait until someone brings up a legit criticism and the bootlickers will appear. However next time I see it myself I’ll @ you.
 
Which top picks are bombs? What you see as boot licking is typically called having some goddamn patience.....OMG our top pick 2 years ago who is 19 didn't win the Hart....he's a bomb....right? OMG our top 5 pick from 3 years ago, omg he didn't win a Selke....he's a bomb...21 years old......19 years old....and already failures, I mean f***....do people actually read what they are typing?

Good thing Anaheim didn't jettison Troy Terry right? f*** on this board he would have been strung up by his balls and quartered......5 years to develop.....that's f***ing horrible....right? Is that how it's supposed to go? Let's go down history lane...right? Brett Hull.....bet CGY kicked themselves over that one......Martin St. Louis, shit...CGY strikes again.....

Point is simple, have some goddamn patience before you try and say 19 and 21 year olds are bombs....busts, whatever you want to call them
Troy Terry: 5th round draft pick
Brett Hull: 6th round pick when he was 19
Martin St. Louis: undrafted

Let me know when anyone is complaining about any Kings pick in those rounds. Feel free to go through the thousands of 5th+ round picks since 1984 and let me know what the percent is of who had a hall of fame career to while you're doing that bad faith thing.
 
Troy Terry: 5th round draft pick
Brett Hull: 6th round pick when he was 19
Martin St. Louis: undrafted

Let me know when anyone is complaining about any Kings pick in those rounds. Feel free to go through the thousands of 5th+ round picks since 1984 and let me know what the percent is of who had a hall of fame career to while you're doing that bad faith thing.

Same question, WHAT TOP PICKS ARE BOMBS? I can wait.....talking of bad faith, my point was more about development...than draft position...but f*** it...ok.....so what top picks are bombed right now?
 
Same question, WHAT TOP PICKS ARE BOMBS? I can wait.....talking of bad faith, my point was more about development...than draft position...but f*** it...ok.....so what top picks are bombed right now?

wHaT TOp pIKz ARe f*****K***G aLLST****rZ? I’ll wait, since BLuc has proudly held onto all their draft picks for 5+ years unlike the loser who last had the job.
 
wHaT TOp pIKz ARe f*****K***G aLLST****rZ? I’ll wait, since BLuc has proudly held onto all their draft picks for 5+ years unlike the loser who last had the job.

None as of yet, but I'm not the one crying in his f***ing milk, because a 19 year old f***ing player hasn't taken the league by storm.......
 
Same question, WHAT TOP PICKS ARE BOMBS? I can wait.....talking of bad faith, my point was more about development...than draft position...but f*** it...ok.....so what top picks are bombed right now?
You let me know at what point you were thinking any of these top picks might be no good/busts.

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I'm on record as saying you can't blame the Kings for the Turcotte pick at all. It wasn't the "right" one, but it wasn't a bad one. I also don't think you can blame them for taking Byfield. I wanted Stutzle and, at the moment, Byfield is looking like a bad pick too. He's shown moments, and he's not being given enough of a chance to show what he can do...but what he has shown isn't much.

How long are you willing to give him before you start questioning what he's going to end up being? I said a year or so ago I see him topping out as a Robert Lang type. A guy that shows you incredible stuff one night and then you wonder where it is for the other 65+ games of the year. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

Bottom line: Looking at those names there, which team trades any of them for Byfield or Turcotte straight up? Which teams do you think would regret NOT making that trade? Any? If you can find one or two or three, would you give the same patience to those prospects that you're giving these guys?
 
You let me know at what point you were thinking any of these top picks might be no good/busts.

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I'm on record as saying you can't blame the Kings for the Turcotte pick at all. It wasn't the "right" one, but it wasn't a bad one. I also don't think you can blame them for taking Byfield. I wanted Stutzle and, at the moment, Byfield is looking like a bad pick too. He's shown moments, and he's not being given enough of a chance to show what he can do...but what he has shown isn't much.

How long are you willing to give him before you start questioning what he's going to end up being? I said a year or so ago I see him topping out as a Robert Lang type. A guy that shows you incredible stuff one night and then you wonder where it is for the other 65+ games of the year. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

Bottom line: Looking at those names there, which team trades any of them for Byfield or Turcotte straight up? Which teams do you think would regret NOT making that trade? Any? If you can find one or two or three, would you give the same patience to those prospects that you're giving these guys?

Well, let's see, Hischier took what 4-5 years? LaFreniere still isn't there, neither is Kaako, or Dach, Dach just got traded for a bag of pucks, Kotkanieme isn't there at all, Patrick is stuck...and Pulijarvi and Juolevi never made it....so...what is that you are asking? That Byfield is in the same boat as them after 46 NHL games vs the 132, 135, 82, 166,157,152, numerous 200+ 300+ and 400+ players?

Yea, I think I'm good waiting to see what Byfield is going to bring instead of shitting on him and the scouting staff after 46 games....
 
Well, let's see, Hischier took what 4-5 years? LaFreniere still isn't there, neither is Kaako, or Dach, Dach just got traded for a bag of pucks, Kotkanieme isn't there at all, Patrick is stuck...and Pulijarvi and Juolevi never made it....so...what is that you are asking? That Byfield is in the same boat as them after 46 NHL games vs the 132, 135, 82, 166,157,152, numerous 200+ 300+ and 400+ players?

Yea, I think I'm good waiting to see what Byfield is going to bring instead of shitting on him and the scouting staff after 46 games....
You're free to answer my questions any time you like. Or you can talk about random stuff instead. I'll respond to one of those.
 
I do find it tiresome to hear Byfield is a bust when he's 19 and was coming off an injury and questionable development deployment.. Its one thing to say we need to see a big jump this year, but to call him out now is a waste of a take.
What is your definition of "a big jump"? Define that so there's something to measure. If he gets 12-14 minutes a game as the 3rd line center, what are you expecting from him? 10 goals? 15? 20 points? 40?
 
What is your definition of "a big jump"? Define that so there's something to measure. If he gets 12-14 minutes a game as the 3rd line center, what are you expecting from him? 10 goals? 15? 20 points? 40?
For me it would not just be numbers - it would be process things like carrying puck through center ice without turning it over, consistent back check and sorting out defensive responsibility properly, significant improvement on his 45% faceoffs. Re points depends on if he gets PP1, PP2 and any overtime reps - which he didnt last year. given 13 min a game playing even strength i would be happy with 15 and 15 - 30 points - lets say a .36 ppg - up from there given PP and OT time.
 
I keep comparing Byfield to Joe Thornton, mainly due to the size and the draft placement. By the time Jumbo was the same age as Byfield is now, he was coming off arguably the worst ever season for a 1st overall pick in NHL history and to start the next pre-season (1998-99) his coach, the great Pat Burns, openly said he feels like Joe should get sent back to junior. Joe started that year slow as well but eventually built up to a 41 point season and continued his slow build into one of the top players of his generation.

I'm not saying I'm thrilled with where Byfield is at but he is 19 and is a big guy trying to grow into his body at the top league in the world and it may take a bit of time. He's also had to do it while trying to get in games around a pandemic and an injury. In his three previous seasons coming into his second NHL season, Thornton had 180 total games. Byfield has 134. That's a lot of missed games for a kid trying to hone his game and coordination, not to mention most of Thornton's were consecutive, not broken up for long stretches by injury and the pandemic.

Let's see where he is at the end of this season.
 
I keep comparing Byfield to Joe Thornton, mainly due to the size and the draft placement. By the time Jumbo was the same age as Byfield is now, he was coming off arguably the worst ever season for a 1st overall pick in NHL history and to start the next pre-season (1998-99) his coach, the great Pat Burns, openly said he feels like Joe should get sent back to junior. Joe started that year slow as well but eventually built up to a 41 point season and continued his slow build into one of the top players of his generation.

I'm not saying I'm thrilled with where Byfield is at but he is 19 and is a big guy trying to grow into his body at the top league in the world and it may take a bit of time. He's also had to do it while trying to get in games around a pandemic and an injury. In his three previous seasons coming into his second NHL season, Thornton had 180 total games. Byfield has 134. That's a lot of missed games for a kid trying to hone his game and coordination, not to mention most of Thornton's were consecutive, not broken up for long stretches by injury and the pandemic.

Let's see where he is at the end of this season.
Didnt know that re Thornton.. very interesting. Another data point would be Draisaitl - he had 9 points in 37 games when he was 19, then huge jump to 51 in 72 his 20 yr old season. I do not expect that for Byfield - but it is a case of a high pick making a huge jump in 1 year.
 
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Didnt know that re Thornton.. very interesting. Another data point would be Draisaitl - he had 9 points in 37 games when he was 19, then huge jump to 51 in 72 his 20 yr old season. I do not expect that for Byfield - but it is a case of a high pick making a huge jump in 1 year.
As you touched on earlier in the thread, opportunity plays a role too. Draisaitl actually stated that season in the minors but got an early recall because Edmonton's offense was so bad. They had McDavid, Nugent-Hopkins, Hall, Eberle and not much else and were likely hoping Drai would click with McDavid, which he did. After those names, the rest of the offense was guys like Teddy Purcell and Benoit Pouliot, so Edmonton was a bit more desperate.

We have Kempe, Kopitar, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Kaliyev, Moore all on our top six (assuming we don't add anyone else this off-season) so Byfield isn't likely going to be put into the top six too kick off the season. A more likely scenario is he builds into that role and the Kings role more of a three C system with Kopi, Danault and Byfield all getting somewhat similar ice time depending on situations and rest games, injuries, etc.

I think Byfield's numbers will start off slow next season too (he may come out of the gate hot like kids can but cool off shortly after) but then build up as the season moves along.
 
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As you touched on earlier in the thread, opportunity plays a role too. Draisaitl actually stated that season in the minors but got an early recall because Edmonton's offense was so bad. They had McDavid, Nugent-Hopkins, Hall, Eberle and not much else and were likely hoping Drai would click with McDavid, which he did. After those names, the rest of the offense was guys like Teddy Purcell and Benoit Pouliot, so Edmonton was a bit more desperate.

We have Kempe, Kopitar, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Kaliyev, Moore all on our top six (assuming we don't add anyone else this off-season) so Byfield isn't likely going to be put into the top six too kick off the season. A more likely scenario is he builds into that role and the Kings role more of a three C system with Kopi, Danault and Byfield all getting somewhat similar ice time depending on situations and rest games, injuries, etc.

I think Byfield's numbers will start off slow next season too (he may come out of the gate hot like kids can but cool off shortly after) but then build up as the season moves along.
Youre probably right about that.. the way it looks is he will center Iafallo and Kaliyev .. thats a bit different than playing w McDavid who can create space w speed, draw defenders and pass it off to the kid with some space and time to do something.
 
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You're free to answer my questions any time you like. Or you can talk about random stuff instead. I'll respond to one of those.

Shit, you don't even know what you are asking yourself, but if it is what I think it is, it's an idiotic premise built on hindsight, you want me to go take a look at your list and go back and say well I thought these guys were bombs on this day, week, year etc, let's take Jack Hughes, everyone thought he was a bust...until this year....

Point of it is, it's absolutely f***ing idiotic, to label a 19 year old.....a bombed top pick......unless the kid retired said f*** it, Im done....it's simply too soon.
 
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For me it would not just be numbers - it would be process things like carrying puck through center ice without turning it over, consistent back check and sorting out defensive responsibility properly, significant improvement on his 45% faceoffs. Re points depends on if he gets PP1, PP2 and any overtime reps - which he didnt last year. given 13 min a game playing even strength i would be happy with 15 and 15 - 30 points - lets say a .36 ppg - up from there given PP and OT time.
I think that's reasonable. I just wanted to hear what you'd consider a big jump. I always see people say things like "needs to take a step forward" and I'm wondering what that translates to. I don't think 30 points for a 3rd line center (that is supposed to be the 1C in the future) is a lot to ask in a third season.

More than anything I just want to see consistency and the determination. If he ends up with 20 points but his play clearly shows it should have been more with luck or better linemates...so be it.
 
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What is your definition of "a big jump"? Define that so there's something to measure. If he gets 12-14 minutes a game as the 3rd line center, what are you expecting from him? 10 goals? 15? 20 points? 40?
I think Byfield is going to get some more power play minutes on the second unit, and end up around 14 minutes per game. He will have better line mates, and he's going to be more assertive. I'm looking for 40 points this season, particularly picking up more offense in the second half of the season.

I would really like him to pick up his physicality, using his big body to lay some hits and block the sun in front of the net. When he goes into the corners and comes out with the puck more often then not, you'll know it's happening.
 
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I think his minutes need to go up if you want him to get 40 points.

Excluding last year I can only see a handful of 'third liners' who breached 40 points and they're mostly offensive specialists with PP time on powerhouse teams who jump up and down the lineup (ie no 'strict' bottom sixers, which Byfield is). factor in the Kings offense tax where the entire 1st and 2nd line outside of Kopitar are 40-50 points and frankly I think 40 points from the 3rd line is asking a lot of ANYONE.
 
I think his minutes need to go up if you want him to get 40 points.

Excluding last year I can only see a handful of 'third liners' who breached 40 points and they're mostly offensive specialists with PP time on powerhouse teams who jump up and down the lineup (ie no 'strict' bottom sixers, which Byfield is). factor in the Kings offense tax where the entire 1st and 2nd line outside of Kopitar are 40-50 points and frankly I think 40 points from the 3rd line is asking a lot of ANYONE.

Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about his point totals.....his PLAY needs to be there, control the puck, make smart moves, don't lose your defensive coverage, try more offensive things, be it 3 minutes or 30 minutes, if that play is there, and the points are not, I'm fine.....with that, the points will come....

Think of it like a shooting percentage, Kubalik his first year was 20% etc, or even go back a few more, William Karlsson, when he broke out etc, that's not sustainable.....but the results where there....everyone was like, OMG look at these guys.....and....they fell back to who they are....mediocre players, I want Byfield's play to be there, because when his play is there....the points will eventually come.
 

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