2022 Draft Discussion (after the trade)

[Raccoon Jesus]

Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about his point totals.....his PLAY needs to be there, control the puck, make smart moves, don't lose your defensive coverage, try more offensive things, be it 3 minutes or 30 minutes, if that play is there, and the points are not, I'm fine.....with that, the points will come....

Think of it like a shooting percentage, Kubalik his first year was 20% etc, or even go back a few more, William Karlsson, when he broke out etc, that's not sustainable.....but the results where there....everyone was like, OMG look at these guys.....and....they fell back to who they are....mediocre players, I want Byfield's play to be there, because when his play is there....the points will eventually come.

100% agree with you here, process is important, look at Kaliyev sponging all-around play, Yanetti talked about that a bit on the pod, their philosophy is not like Ottawa, throwing out Stutzle, or Detroit, throwing out Raymond, to get -5'ed on nights they don't 'have it' and then still giving them prime PP time.

I want more opportunity for the kids generally speaking but until they get that I think i'ts important to have production/process commensurate with their roles and ever-increasing. This year has to represent a step forward in a lot of ways. But I'm also hesitant to throw out a number for many reasons.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This forum is funny though

"late bloomers aren't a thing, if Byfield doesn't do anything in d+2 he's a bust

anyway we should pick up Nichuskin" lmao

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

100% agree with you here, process is important, look at Kaliyev sponging all-around play, Yanetti talked about that a bit on the pod, their philosophy is not like Ottawa, throwing out Stutzle, or Detroit, throwing out Raymond, to get -5'ed on nights they don't 'have it' and then still giving them prime PP time.

I want more opportunity for the kids generally speaking but until they get that I think i'ts important to have production/process commensurate with their roles and ever-increasing. This year has to represent a step forward in a lot of ways. But I'm also hesitant to throw out a number for many reasons.

Be still my heart, I am taking the bolding, printing it, framing it....and hanging it up on the wall, just saying

 

[kilowatt]

This forum is funny though

"late bloomers aren't a thing, if Byfield doesn't do anything in d+2 he's a bust

anyway we should pick up Nichuskin" lmao

Season	Team	Lge	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2011-12	Chelyabinsk Belye Medvedi	Rus-MHL	38	4	6	10	6	-10
2012-13	Chelyabinsk Traktor	KHL	18	4	2	6	0	6
2013-14	Dallas Stars	NHL	79	14	20	34	8	20
2014-15	Dallas Stars	NHL	8	0	1	1	2	-5
2014-15	Texas Stars	AHL	5	0	4	4	12	-6
2015-16	Dallas Stars	NHL	79	9	20	29	12	2
2016-17	CSKA Moscow	KHL	36	11	13	24	9	25
2017-18	CSKA Moscow	KHL	50	16	11	27	14	11
2018-19	Dallas Stars	NHL	57	0	10	10	0	-4
2019-20	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	65	13	14	27	14	26
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	55	10	11	21	4	9
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	62	25	27	52	14	21

 

[Schrute farms]

Ooooff, wow that's ugly. Even his "better" years the two before that and two after are nothing much to see whatsoever.

2018-19

Dallas Stars

NHL

57

0

10

10

0

-4

Either this guy is the poster child for being patient and a dude finally putting it together / figuring it all out....or he's the future case model for GMs to not give out long / huge contracts to one year wonders in their FA year. Pretty fascinating to see how it unfolds going forward on that contract.

 

[Mats26]

Every signing after the Kempe deal was announced makes the deal even more sweeter. UFA "frenzy" is going to be a disaster. Can't wait to see the ridiculous amount of money thrown around.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every signing after the Kempe deal was announced makes the deal even more sweeter. UFA "frenzy" is going to be a disaster. Can't wait to see the ridiculous amount of money thrown around.

Absolutely, all the inflated scoring is gonna make so many contracts look so, so bad.

I'm willing to bet a few years down the road they've negotiated a set of no-penalty compliance buyouts to get out of the wreckage

 

[Mats26]

There is talk of Gaudreau in the 11-12 range now if he hits the market. Latest offer from Calgary was 10million for 8 years and he did not sign it ...yet.

 

[kingsfan28]

This forum is funny though

"late bloomers aren't a thing, if Byfield doesn't do anything in d+2 he's a bust

anyway we should pick up Nichuskin" lmao

Exactly, and while were at it, get Forsberg too!

 

[cyclones22]

Exactly, and while were at it, get Forsberg too!

Send out Iafallo and 2 gas cards for cap space.

 

[kingsfan]

Ooooff, wow that's ugly. Even his "better" years the two before that and two after are nothing much to see whatsoever.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD]Dallas Stars[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Either this guy is the poster child for being patient and a dude finally putting it together / figuring it all out....or he's the future case model for GMs to not give out long / huge contracts to one year wonders in their FA year. Pretty fascinating to see how it unfolds going forward on that contract.

Sometimes it's also a matter of being the the right fit in the right place. He seems to works better in Colorado and they've had him for three years now so they know what they're investing in beyond the most recent year.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Kudos to Russell Morgan - Hockey Royalty for this article on Kaleb Lawrence. It sounds like he could become a force. Great to take a chance on him, with the 7th rounder.

Jordan Hill: 'You Can't Stop' LA Kings' Kaleb Lawrence with puck

The excitement is palpable as longtime Owen Sound Attack assistant coach Jordan Hill discusses new LA Kings prospect Kaleb Lawrence.

hockeyroyalty.com

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings should just always trade down for extra 7th round picks, they're just unstoppable in the late rounds

Its pretty stark how good their scouting and development is in those rounds relative to the first. and relative to expectations.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Kings should just always trade down for extra 7th round picks, they're just unstoppable in the late rounds

Its pretty stark how good their scouting and development is in those rounds relative to the first. and relative to expectations.

It's almost as if.... the expectations.... are the part of the equation that needs to be adjusted....

 

[Cianide]

100% agree with you here, process is important, look at Kaliyev sponging all-around play, Yanetti talked about that a bit on the pod, their philosophy is not like Ottawa, throwing out Stutzle, or Detroit, throwing out Raymond, to get -5'ed on nights they don't 'have it' and then still giving them prime PP time.

I want more opportunity for the kids generally speaking but until they get that I think i'ts important to have production/process commensurate with their roles and ever-increasing. This year has to represent a step forward in a lot of ways. But I'm also hesitant to throw out a number for many reasons.

I'd really like to see Byfield getting top 6 minutes. That's all I want. Work Turcotte into the mix too. Danault, while he is very valuable, is not a top 6 center. Just saying.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's almost as if.... the expectations.... are the part of the equation that needs to be adjusted....

Not at all.

You expect lottery picks to be impact NHLers.

YOu don't expect anything at all from 7th rounders, so for the Kings to churn out Matt Roy, Jacob Middleton, Dominik Kubalik, Jordan Nolan, Nic Dowd over the course of seven freaking years is incredible. If they can turn Jamsen and Lawrence into players they're hitting like 80% on 7th rounders over a decade, that's just f***ing bonkers and a huge testement to what they can do well.

They absolutely deserve the kudos for their late-round factory. And that's just the 7th! They're great at getting gems at 4+ as well and I'm sure their 2nd-3rd rounds stack up near the top too.

FWIW I'm one that really liked their first round picks over that time period as well. They've gotten quite some juice (heh) out of Kempe and even Pearson and Forbort. But their success out of the first, which is something I agree with Yanetti on--they're arguably the best in the NHL at creating players/just-a-guys--makes their relative lack of success in the first so baffling.

 

[Herby]

It's almost as if.... the expectations.... are the part of the equation that needs to be adjusted....

What are fair expectations of high picks Jesse? Sure seems his points are more than valid.

The Kings took two players with very high picks (5&11) and those players have failed to make any kind of impact at the NHL level in 3&5 seasons respectively since being drafted, and have switched positions while players taken around them are starring in the league and signing contracts with their teams that are making them focal points of the future of their teams.

On the night Vilardi, Turcotte and QB were drafted had someone projected those players to what the reality has shown 5-3-2 years later everyone in those threads would have agreed it would have been a disaster. But now we are saying it was unrealistic expectations? I don't think it was unrealistic expectation to expect one of those players to be a difference maker by this time.

You disagree, but what should realistic expectations have been for the Kings high draft picks?

I think its a very fair statement to say the Kings have been one of the best outside round 1 and one of the worst in round 1. I am actually amazed that people argue either point.

 

[All The Kings Men]

What are fair expectations of high picks Jesse? Sure seems his points are more than valid.

The Kings took two players with very high picks (5&11) and those players have failed to make any kind of impact at the NHL level in 3&5 seasons respectively since being drafted, and have switched positions while players taken around them are starring in the league and signing contracts with their teams that are making them focal points of the future of their teams.

On the night Vilardi, Turcotte and QB were drafted had someone projected those players to what the reality has shown 5-3-2 years later everyone in those threads would have agreed it would have been a disaster. But now we are saying it was unrealistic expectations? I don't think it was unrealistic expectation to expect one of those players to be a difference maker by this time.

You disagree, but what should realistic expectations have been for the Kings high draft picks?

I think its a very fair statement to say the Kings have been one of the best outside round 1 and one of the worst in round 1. I am actually amazed that people argue either point.

I shouldn't have said anything because we'll just get back into the thing where I say my opinion (which I realize is the minority opinion) and then you guys tell me why I'm wrong by listing the same talking points as last time and then I say "yea but" and then you guys say "but still" and I go "no but" and then everybody gets frustrated...

So maybe I'll try this tack instead...

What's MORE likely

That the Kings scouting/developing program is good at rounds 2-7 and bad at round 1 for some unknown reason

OR

The Kings scouting/development program is equally good at rounds 2-7 and round 1 but there are extenuating factors that cause the 1st round picks to "underperform" INCLUDING elevated expectations that ignore the specific situations of specific players and hyper focus on expectations based on draft position

But really I should just drop this cus fighting with people used to be my jam but it really isn't anymore I just can't help myself sometimes cus I'm a flawed person.

 

[Herby]

I shouldn't have said anything because we'll just get back into the thing where I say my opinion (which I realize is the minority opinion) and then you guys tell me why I'm wrong by listing the same talking points as last time and then I say "yea but" and then you guys say "but still" and I go "no but" and then everybody gets frustrated...

So maybe I'll try this tack instead...

What's MORE likely

That the Kings scouting/developing program is good at rounds 2-7 and bad at round 1 for some unknown reason

OR

The Kings scouting/development program is equally good at rounds 2-7 and round 1 but there are extenuating factors that cause the 1st round picks to "underperform" INCLUDING elevated expectations that ignore the specific situations of specific players and hyper focus on expectations based on draft position

But really I should just drop this cus fighting with people used to be my jam but it really isn't anymore I just can't help myself sometimes cus I'm a flawed person.

I'm just curious what fair expectations would have been after 5, 3 and 2 seasons for players taken 11, 5 and 2 in the drafts.

Is it unfair to expect Vilardi to be as good as Suzuki, Norris and Thomas? I don't know, maybe it is, but is it unfair to expect him to be more than a fringe NHL/AHL guy?

Is it unfair to expect Turcotte to be as good as all the NTDP teammates taken after him? I don't know, maybe it is, but is it unfair to expect him to be an NHL'er by now? To have had anything resembling a dominant seasons at either the NCAA or AHL levels?

I don't disagree with what Yannetti has said in his interviews about it being a multi-faceted operation, but right now there is a link that is broken somewhere along the way from name being called to NHL impact for basically every guy Blake has drafted high.

 

[ru4reals]

I think I like the Hughes pick more than most. He has plenty of time to fill out. He's 6'0, with potentially another inch or two left to grow, and no where to go but up in the weight department at 165. Get him in with Gary Roberts as soon as possible and start building that man-strength. You know who else was 5'11, 162 on draft day? Phillip Danault.



Unlike most of our recent higher picks, I think we are uniquely positioned to bring out the best in a guy like Hughes! This is really our bread and butter for development. I like the pick, especially in the second round.

Scouting Report: Jack Hughes - Smaht Scouting

Smaht Scouting's Josh Tessler takes an in-depth look at 2022 NHL Draft prospect Jack Hughes (C, University of Northeastern).

smahtscouting.com

Jack Hughes Scouting Report: 2022 NHL Draft #42

Jack Hughes Scouting Report: The son of Montreal Canadiens GM Kent Hughes, Jack Hughes was a beast at the NHL combine.

lastwordonsports.com

Hmmm his pops had the 33 pick and didn't draft him. Maybe his pops didn't think so highly of his own son LOL.

 

[kilowatt]

Hmmm his pops had the 33 pick and didn't draft him. Maybe his pops didn't think so highly of his own son LOL.

Montreal didn’t take him specifically because they’re related.

“I think he wanted to avoid it as best as he could,” Hughes said of his father possibly drafting him. “There's no way of really knowing, but he made it pretty clear beforehand that he was going to avoid (picking me) at all costs.”

Hughes drafted by Kings, is son of Canadiens GM | NHL.com

Center picked in second round got advice from dad Kent prior to selection

www.nhl.com

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I shouldn't have said anything because we'll just get back into the thing where I say my opinion (which I realize is the minority opinion) and then you guys tell me why I'm wrong by listing the same talking points as last time and then I say "yea but" and then you guys say "but still" and I go "no but" and then everybody gets frustrated...

So maybe I'll try this tack instead...

What's MORE likely

That the Kings scouting/developing program is good at rounds 2-7 and bad at round 1 for some unknown reason

OR

The Kings scouting/development program is equally good at rounds 2-7 and round 1 but there are extenuating factors that cause the 1st round picks to "underperform" INCLUDING elevated expectations that ignore the specific situations of specific players and hyper focus on expectations based on draft position

But really I should just drop this cus fighting with people used to be my jam but it really isn't anymore I just can't help myself sometimes cus I'm a flawed person.

Oh, come on. This isn't even a fight. This is I cracked a joke, you treated it like serious discussion, and are now going 'but please don't discuss this with me.'

I'm not real sure how to not walk on eggshells around you lately, I'm not trying to offend or exclude you in any way, and I'm definitley not trying to fight over something that doesn't really have a black-and-white 'right' answer. But it's a little silly to latch onto a statement that's clearly not serious to make a serious point and then back off like "I don't want a fight."

I appreciate everything you do and all that you share and I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying it's awesome that you're so willing to participate with other fans right here on the forum, it's great that like everyone else here you're not shy with many of your own views and you're excellent at carrying that appropriately into your interactions with the team as well. But if you're going to jump right in, don't be surprised or offended when others do as well.

...and to answer your question I fully agree that there are extenuating circumstances on the recent first rounders...and the previous ones either didn't exist or were late. It was less criticizing the first round and more praising the later rounds. Hence, the joke about stockpiling 7th rounders.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Oh, come on. This isn't even a fight. This is I cracked a joke, you treated it like serious discussion, and are now going 'but please don't discuss this with me.'

I'm not real sure how to not walk on eggshells around you lately, I'm not trying to offend or exclude you in any way, and I'm definitley not trying to fight over something that doesn't really have a black-and-white 'right' answer. But it's a little silly to latch onto a statement that's clearly not serious to make a serious point and then back off like "I don't want a fight."

I agree. I am being silly.

Some of that is just the timing of when I choose to say stuff and some of it just me forgetting what I can and can't say.

I appreciate everything you do and all that you share and I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying it's awesome that you're so willing to participate with other fans right here on the forum, it's great that like everyone else here you're not shy with many of your own views and you're excellent at carrying that appropriately into your interactions with the team as well. But if you're going to jump right in, don't be surprised or offended when others do as well.

I try very hard not to be offended when people tell me where to stick it. I am well aware of my insufferable tendencies.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Also... sometimes I write out these really long researched takes where I'm looking stuff up and rewriting things to be polite but also direct and then this voice in the back of my head goes off and says

what are you doing? why would you do this? you won't change any opinions and if you say the wrong thing or say the right thing in the wrong way you could get in trouble. delete his and shut up and leave it be.

And that's usually what I do.

So... ya know... I'm a crazy person what can I tell you.

 

[Statto]

100% agree with you here, process is important, look at Kaliyev sponging all-around play, Yanetti talked about that a bit on the pod, their philosophy is not like Ottawa, throwing out Stutzle, or Detroit, throwing out Raymond, to get -5'ed on nights they don't 'have it' and then still giving them prime PP time.

I want more opportunity for the kids generally speaking but until they get that I think i'ts important to have production/process commensurate with their roles and ever-increasing. This year has to represent a step forward in a lot of ways. But I'm also hesitant to throw out a number for many reasons.

I agree with you and GBH (you guys being on the same page definitely qualifies as a moment in history ).
There is no point giving out numbers because it’s all about context. If he gets 15 + 15 with 11 minutes per night, zero pp time and solid defe structure that phenomenal. If he does that playing 17 minutes per night in the top 6, prime pp time and is a car crash defensively we are rightly really worried.

The structure, process and Byfield being confident and assertive are the things we need to be seeing. If there is meaningful growth in his game, with his raw talent, we should all be happy!