Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[CupfortheSharks]

I agree with the theory here about being challenged, but if i may hi-jack this to ask follow up adjacent:

What's the AHL like these days? Is it still packed with goons or did Covid reshuffle the deck? Is it a bruising gauntlet or a development league now?

With that in mind, if the AHL is just a less-good version of the NHL, shouldn't isn't the best course for all rookies to let them dictate their spot based on their play? confining a player to games where they aren't challenged just because you want to save a year on his contract seems counterintuitive, no?

There is a group of players in the AHL that know the only way they make the NHL is through physical play so you do see more hitting and fighting but it’s still much less than the NHL of the past. I wouldn’t call it a league of goons at all.

The biggest differences to me are that the pace of play is slower and you can get away with things that won’t fly in the NHL.

 

[STL Shark]

So you want to, repeat the same mistake that happened with meier. Sharks do not slide his contract, and we get to sign him cheap after a 30 point season, but instead the sharks gave him that one extra year of development and was able to sign his current contract and had the leverage to not only up his contract from 900k to 6 mil but also to have his qualifying offer be 10 million.

Yall are living in the past where contracts past 30 years old were bad because the player falls off the cliff. But every year more and more players are continuing to be dominant way past there 30's and closer to there 40's.
A

The mistake with Meier has nothing to do with the extra year of development from his ELC slide (he had less than zero reason to have been playing in the NHL after his draft year so not sure what point you're trying to make here). The mistake with Meier was signing him to a 4 year deal instead of an 8 year deal in 2019. Now you're going to be forced into an 8 year deal for more money which takes him to his age 35 season where he will have already fallen off a cliff.

Also, that second paragraph is just patently false haha. If that's the case, the Sharks should be elite because all of our old players should still be good for years to come. Generational talents last awhile like they always have, but the average age of a player's prime is going younger rather than older which invalidates that argument entirely.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Crosby. Wheeler. Kessel. Pavelski, thornton did until he hit 40. And there are plenty more that have 40/50 points over the age of 35.

But then again people are worried about signing someone until they are 32/33 because some 40 year old average that after the age of 30 the play falls off to the point they are useless. Which is not the case any more.

And i would rather follow the winners way of doing contracts like tampa. If they allowed kucherovs rookie contract 1 more year to slide they would of been signing a 80 point center compared to the 3 year 4.7 mil contract they signed him at after a 66 point season.

Worked also for colorado by locking mackinnon up before he broke out. Little different, but still in line with what i am saying, less money now and pay them later.

But lets just slide it one more year so we can sign him right away to the big contract right after elc. Its worked so well for toronto.

Yes I missed Pavs who scored 81 points at age 37. On a side note I think Pavs career when it is all done might end up the single biggest outlier in relation to what we know about the NHL. 7th round pick, small, not a good skater, setting career highs at age 37. So using him as an example compared to the thousands of other NHLers is not going to say anything.

So even with Pavs there are only 9 active players older than 35 as of Jul 1 who scored more than 20pts last season. As for your statement that there are plenty of players who have 40/50 points over the age of 35 that is simply not true. There were only 5 players who scored more than 40 pts last season at over 35 who are still in the NHL:

Possibly the greatest goal scorer of all time, one of the greatest defensive forwards of all time, a Norris winning Defensemen who was given away for peanuts, Pavs (possibly most unique career of all time), and Carter.

This was all done in one of the highest scoring season in a long time in the NHL.

Crosby was 34 last season and also one of the greatest ever, Wheeler was 35 last season, Kessel was 34 last season, and Thornton last scored 51 points at age 38 and last scored more than 51 (dominated) at age 35.

The arguement that guys over 35 can be successful let alone dominant in the NHL is just not true. Only some of the greatest players of all time can do that and even they drop of after 35. I do agree that some players can be successful and dominant into their mid 30's up to 35 but the drop off is dramatic after 35. It will be interesting to see how Crosby will do in the next few seasons as he gets past 35 but even that won't tell us much because Crosby is a Generational player which basically means a once in a 10 year player to join the league.

 

[stator]

Yeah, but Meier is no Crosby. So that's really an invalid comparison.

 

[LadyStanley]

Paywall. Speculation

 

[Karl Prime]

Crosby has become such an elite two-way force that even if he falls to a .9 or .8 PPG guy he'll still be one of the best. He'll just be more like Bergeron than Crosby.

 

[TheBeard]

Crosby has become such an elite two-way force that even if he falls to a .9 or .8 PPG guy he'll still be one of the best. He'll just be more like Bergeron than Crosby.

I have no reason to believe he'll ever not be a ppg player

 

[Shark Finn]

Yeah, but Meier is no Crosby. So that's really an invalid comparison.

Yeah. Crosby is one of the best ever. Meier is one of the best ever Sharks last season.

 

[LadyStanley]

Alexa, set reminder for April 1.

 

[matt trick]

Alexa, set reminder for April 1.

Don't love that, but I can appreciate its a reasonable point of view.

 

[Barrie22]

Cap looks to be going up to 92 million dollars by the 2026 season.

82.5 this season.
83.5 next season.
Then back to back 4 million a year jumps.

 

[Alaskanice]

Cap looks to be going up to 92 million dollars by the 2026 season.

82.5 this season.
83.5 next season.
Then back to back 4 million a year jumps.

Sweet.

 

[Anomie2029]

Ferraro and Vlasic can not be on a pairing together. They're both horrible defensively.

 

[hohosaregood]

Ferraro and Vlasic can not be on a pairing together. They're both horrible defensively.

So they should be our shutdown pairing for 2023 right?

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Ferraro and Vlasic can not be on a pairing together. They're both horrible defensively.

Putting Vlasic on the shut down pair and Labanc on Couture’s wing are both retread ideas. Deboer and Boughner both tried these multiple times and failed. The sooner Quinn moves on from these lineup decisions the better.

 

[themelkman]

I dont see a way Meier stays unless barrels of cash are thrown at him

 

[landshark]

I dont see a way Meier stays unless barrels of cash are thrown at him

GMMG be all like:

 

[one2gamble]

I dont see a way Meier stays unless barrels of cash are thrown at him

Both him and Hertl should have been moved

 

[STL Shark]

I dont see a way Meier stays unless barrels of cash are thrown at him

Hardly a hot take... He's going to get 8 years and $8+ million wherever he signs.

 

[Barrie22]

Hardly a hot take... He's going to get 8 years and $8+ million wherever he signs.

And we should jump all over that and be jumping for joy.

 

[Hodge]

And we should jump all over that and be jumping for joy.

Yeah let’s lock up every core player on a team that’s missed the playoffs three years in a row to an enormous contract extension.

 

[seroes]

Hardly a hot take... He's going to get 8 years and $8+ million wherever he signs.

If it weren't for all the other bad long term contracts I wouldn't hesitate to resign him, but Karlsson, Couture, Vlassic, our dead money, and likely Hertl eventually, we need some future cap flexibility and Meier is easiest way to do that. And likely the only one that would net a significant return

 

[Cas]

If it weren't for all the other bad long term contracts I wouldn't hesitate to resign him, but Karlsson, Couture, Vlassic, our dead money, and likely Hertl eventually, we need some future cap flexibility and Meier is easiest way to do that. And likely the only one that would net a significant return

We can afford Meier at $9 million, along with all of those other contracts. If the cap moves up as speculated, it won't even be tight after 23-24. 23-24 will be tight, no matter what, but there are plenty of guys who could be moved or bought out to save a little cash (Labanc, Lindblom, Barabanov).

 

[Hodge]

We can afford Meier at $9 million, along with all of those other contracts. If the cap moves up as speculated, it won't even be tight after 23-24. 23-24 will be tight, no matter what, but there are plenty of guys who could be moved or bought out to save a little cash (Labanc, Lindblom, Barabanov).

Just because they “can afford” Meier at that price doesn’t mean they should sign him. Spending 43.5M/year on five players is an insane way to run a team especially when none of those players are superstars and the results with those players comprising the core of the team have been completely disastrous.

 

[fasterthanlight]

It would be sad, but if we can get a high first in next year's draft ++ for Meier (big if) it's definitely worth considering. I would have rather moved Hertl given our noncompetitive timeline (would have also been really sad), but alas.