Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Gecklund]

Personally I’ve found Lorentz to be painfully unnoticeable all season…

Is that really a bad thing? He’s might not be winning every shift but he rarely is the reason they lose the shift. He’s popped up well a few times too.

 

[Cas]

Is that really a bad thing? He’s might not be winning every shift but he rarely is the reason they lose the shift. He’s popped up well a few times too.

Lorentz is fine. He's not going to be a game changer - fourth liners rarely are - and he shouldn't play up in the lineup, but Lorentz has settled into an adequate 4C role (maybe not on a playoff team) for cheap, which is nothing to complain about, and hopefully he can hold down the role for a few years to help break in the real prospects.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Lorentz is fine. He's not going to be a game changer - fourth liners rarely are - and he shouldn't play up in the lineup, but Lorentz has settled into an adequate 4C role (maybe not on a playoff team) for cheap, which is nothing to complain about, and hopefully he can hold down the role for a few years to help break in the real prospects.

They don’t have the depth to do this, but I wouldn’t mind a 4th line group of Lorentz, Sturm, Svechnikov, and Gregor. I think they would play an honest, physical game (okay, not Gregor) and pop a few goals here and there.

 

[Cas]

They don’t have the depth to do this, but I wouldn’t mind a 4th line group of Lorentz, Sturm, Svechnikov, and Gregor. I think they would play an honest, physical game (okay, not Gregor) and pop a few goals here and there.

Sturm is really best suited to be a 4C. Lorentz should be fine on his wing. We just don't have that kind of depth, as you note.

 

[tiburon12]

Personally I’ve found Lorentz to be painfully unnoticeable all season…

Did you expect more from a mid-late 20's career 4th liner?

Dude is defensively responsible, chips in on the offense at a respectable rate, and kills penalties. He's gonna end up close to 10-10-20 on the year and that's very good for a 4th liner

 

[Karl Prime]

This season, per Moneypuck, in goals saved above expected, Kahkonen is 2nd worst and Reimer is 6th worst among goalies with at least 23 GP. Last season Kahkonen was 18th on Minny and Reimer 28th among goalies with at least 23 GP. Hill was 35th. And I believe GSAE doesn't have anything to do with the team in front of them, just the shots they are "expected to save" based on angle, velocity, and proximity to goal. In fact, there are only five goalies below -10 - Martin, Kaapo, Merzlikins, Campbell, and Quick. So it's been ugly to watch, but it may have come at the perfect time to give this team a top 4 pick. The bad goaltending has offset EK's amazing season.

 

[STL Shark]

We're aren't competing the next 3 years. No point in gaining cap space we won't be using while hindering us when we might actually have a chance to have a good team. Especially if Grier actually trades Erik Karlsson.

The issue is that it is an incredibly bad look to hold guys that you don't intend to play (Labanc) hostage in the prime of their career. Hockey agents and such are small circles and it doesn't behoove an organization to piss off that small circle by mistreating a player. For that reason, I'd expect a Labanc buyout if a trade can't be found by the end of the buyout window.

I would say it is unlikely to see a Vlasic buyout given the signing bonus structure of his deal and fact that he goes from NMC to M-NTC this offseason. At $3.5M retained, you can probably find a taker for him as he is still mostly solid as a bottom pairing D-Man (53.56% xGF% this year with only a 24% OZ start rate is very solid given he isn't getting the Karlsson bump). Not sure you want to go down the hole of putting all 3 of your retention slots to use for multiple years on that crop of D-Men, but also not sure what options you have.

Guess that is where the Ferraro trade talks swirl up from. Can trade him and not waste a retention slot on Vlasic until maybe next offseason where he only has 2 years left and you only have 1 year of maxed out retention slots (assuming a Karlsson trade) for 2024-25.

Have Ferraro, Knyzhov, Thrun, Okhotiuk, Vlasic, Muk, Simek, and Macdonald all as left-hand shooting D-Men that will be competing for a lineup spot next year. Muk and Macdonald can play their off sides, but sitll leaves 6 guys for 3 spots. I guess I'd trade Ferraro, buyout Simek, and then let the other 4 battle it out for NHL jobs with Macdonald as the emergency swing man that can be 7D and play in case of injury on either side.

 

[STL Shark]

I mean his analytics were good, but you have to think he benefited alot from who and where he was playing.

He spent well over 50% of his minutes in NJD without Hughes or Hischier centering him, so I don't think the "who he played with" stuff is a worthwhile argument. Even since coming over the SJ, his analytics have been good.

End of the day, on a good team he's a 2/3 tweener and that is fine. Everyone knows that (Grier included), and he fits a role that winning teams need filled as an F1 with speed and strength that can move up and down the lineup and bring energy. He also just went from playing for a chance to win a Stanley Cup to playing on the 2nd worst team by record in the NHL. While still a professional, takes some adjustment to get up at the same level in that situation midseason, particularly as a 23 year old.

 

[LadyStanley]

Harrumph

 

[Cas]

Harrumph

I am intensely disappointed and he's pretty much a write-off for me at this stage.

 

[STL Shark]

I am intensely disappointed and he's pretty much a write-off for me at this stage.

Been a write-off since the moment he decided to head to the KHL. Reminder for those that prospect hug that most guys outside of the 1st round don't workout so don't be afraid to trade them. We clung onto the Ch twins and both were "busts" as much as that is possible from 6th and 7th rounders.

The ones that do workout are generally apparent very quickly (Demers, Labanc, Pavelski, etc) and are established as NHL regulars (or at least dominating the AHL) by the 20-22 range or shortly after making the jump to the pros (Braun. for example, needed only half a season in the AHL).

 

[Hobocop]

Harrumph

Guy works to be considered for a promotion, new boss comes in and blocks him by filling all the roles with his own guys. So he leaves for a new opportunity elsewhere, is very appreciated there, decides he likes it better at the new place.

Seems like a pretty relatable story to me.

 

[jarr92]

Been a write-off since the moment he decided to head to the KHL. Reminder for those that prospect hug that most guys outside of the 1st round don't workout so don't be afraid to trade them. We clung onto the Ch twins and both were "busts" as much as that is possible from 6th and 7th rounders.

The ones that do workout are generally apparent very quickly (Demers, Labanc, Pavelski, etc) and are established as NHL regulars (or at least dominating the AHL) by the 20-22 range or shortly after making the jump to the pros (Braun. for example, needed only half a season in the AHL).

Not really sure how you can call Chmelevski a bust when he was a 6th round pick who already has 10 points in 24 NHL games. He's still only 23, and no one drafted after Chmelevski that year has been better.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Still love you Chmelevski and youre always welcome to come back home

 

[one2gamble]

Not really sure how you can call Chmelevski a bust when he was a 6th round pick who already has 10 points in 24 NHL games. He's still only 23, and no one drafted after Chmelevski that year has been better.

Not even sure how he claims they were "clung on to"

 

[Jargon]

No pressure, man, you’re just like our only defensive prospect.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Muk, no pressure man.

PS Can you fight? I think Quinn is looking for a fighter in his latest post game quotes.

 

[Levie]

No pressure, man, you’re just like our only defensive prospect.

Hope he doesn't play with the Sharks this season. I don't want to root against our prospects.

 

[Alaskanice]

Hope he doesn't play with the Sharks this season. I don't want to root against our prospects.

What can he do in 15 games except get acclimated to the ice and plays?

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Been a write-off since the moment he decided to head to the KHL. Reminder for those that prospect hug that most guys outside of the 1st round don't workout so don't be afraid to trade them. We clung onto the Ch twins and both were "busts" as much as that is possible from 6th and 7th rounders.

The ones that do workout are generally apparent very quickly (Demers, Labanc, Pavelski, etc) and are established as NHL regulars (or at least dominating the AHL) by the 20-22 range or shortly after making the jump to the pros (Braun. for example, needed only half a season in the AHL).

There is no reason to believe Chmelevski can't outperform Lindblom, Lorentz, Svechnikov, Gregor, Zetterlund, or any of the cuda forwards other than Eklund. If you do the league differential calculations (or believe in them), Chmelevski's KHL season would translate over to the NHL with higher totals than any of the above players have ever had, and most of them are a few years older.

This decision means he probably isn't going to play in the NHL ever, for any team, and I think that's a bad move for him. But he's only 23, and he could decide to stay in the KHL forever and just be a name over there. Regardless if he was a bust or not, his time in SJ was extremely poorly handled.

 

[Anomie2029]

There is no reason to believe Chmelevski can't outperform Lindblom, Lorentz, Svechnikov, Gregor, Zetterlund, or any of the cuda forwards other than Eklund. If you do the league differential calculations (or believe in them), Chmelevski's KHL season would translate over to the NHL with higher totals than any of the above players have ever had, and most of them are a few years older.

This decision means he probably isn't going to play in the NHL ever, for any team, and I think that's a bad move for him. But he's only 23, and he could decide to stay in the KHL forever and just be a name over there. Regardless if he was a bust or not, his time in SJ was extremely poorly handled.

How long is he under the Sharks' control? I could see him staying over in the KHL until that expires and then come back and sign with another NHL team.

 

[Cas]

How long is he under the Sharks' control? I could see him staying over in the KHL until that expires and then come back and sign with another NHL team.

Until he turns 27 (so after 25-26), but at this point my opinion is "I hope you do not come back to the Sharks, regardless of your skills."

 

[Gecklund]

Until he turns 27 (so after 25-26), but at this point my opinion is "I hope you do not come back to the Sharks, regardless of your skills."

But why? If he wants to come back, let him if we think he will improve this team.

 

[STL Shark]

Not even sure how he claims they were "clung on to"

Because there was literally a 32 Thoughts podcast (would have been 31 I guess at that time) during their breakout CHL seasons that said as much. Something like teams had been inquiring about dealing for either of the Ch's (Chmelevski in particular) and DW said something to the effect of they weren't moving under basically any circumstance.

 

[Karl Prime]

Chmelevski staying in Russia indicates he may stay there for the rest of his career. There isn't a better time to come back to San Jose than next season. In 2 or 3 years time it will surely be harder as more of the young forwards push for spots on the big club. Who knows, maybe he comes back to San Jose in 2024, but I don't think it's likely based on statement when he re-signed with Ufa.