Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

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Do you think that makes you more holy or something? Preparing for disappointment? Sounds like a real shitty way to live.
I'm not preparing for disappointment...I just follow hockey and prospects and know what trades realistically look like. Prospects like Hughes, Nemec, etc. literally never get traded.

Meier will net a good return that I'm excited to see, but at the same time as fans we cannot expect the moon back.
 
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I think I’m going to be disappointed no matter what the return is because there’s very little chance any of the guys we get back will be as good as Timo. The thing is Bedard, Fantilli, and Carlsson could be. Other than the first game he missed, we’ve looked like f***ing trash since Timo went down. Moving him gives us a much better chance at one of those guys.
And also allows us to pivot and begin moving even more players (Bonino, Barabanov, Gregor, and maybe more) which will help us bottom out even further.
 
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True even trades are when both sides feel like they got screwed.

The reality is no trade like these kinds can be properly evaluated for a few years when we see how the young prospects and picks in return fare in their own right. If NJ never wins with Timo and some second rate prospect in return develops into a star then suddenly the perspective changes from when the trade first went down.
 
It’s fun because every new bit of news offers no actual news but it SEEMS like news. We have as much info now as we did a month ago, feels like.

I still think it’s probably like a 1st, Holtz, Zetterlund unless Buffalo, who is apparently checking in, decides to swoop in.
 
It’s fun because every new bit of news offers no actual news but it SEEMS like news. We have as much info now as we did a month ago, feels like.

I still think it’s probably like a 1st, Holtz, Zetterlund unless Buffalo, who is apparently checking in, decides to swoop in.
Just feels like something that would have already been finished by now if that was the offer on the table. I.e. NJD would have likely offered that up weeks ago and if SJ had nothing else comparable enough to the point where they're eliminating other teams like Carolina, STL, etc. they'd have accepted it.

Rumor that Grier turned down Bolduc and a pair of late 1st rounders from STL just doesn't seem to jive with Holtz, Zetterlund, and a 1st as the return. Given Holtz has been Mirco Mueller level misused this year, just don't see how you accept a deal for another team's scraps and a player that they scratched last night for performance (was bumped to the 4th line and played 8 mins the game prior and then scratched last night).

I think Zetterlund is a solid player and Holtz has a nice shot and could be elite or could be a guy that doesn't adjust to the NHL where goalies stop pucks better and you can't just be a perimeter shooter. Overall unsure why this deal would take so long if that is the return and NJD can get a top line player for literally their spare parts that don't really hurt them now or in the future (along with the fact that Carolina is supposedly being aggressive and going for it more this year per their owner and wouldn't put an offer together to compete with this).
 
Just feels like something that would have already been finished by now if that was the offer on the table. I.e. NJD would have likely offered that up weeks ago and if SJ had nothing else comparable enough to the point where they're eliminating other teams like Carolina, STL, etc. they'd have accepted it.

Rumor that Grier turned down Bolduc and a pair of late 1st rounders from STL just doesn't seem to jive with Holtz, Zetterlund, and a 1st as the return. Given Holtz has been Mirco Mueller level misused this year, just don't see how you accept a deal for another team's scraps and a player that they scratched last night for performance (was bumped to the 4th line and played 8 mins the game prior and then scratched last night).

I think Zetterlund is a solid player and Holtz has a nice shot and could be elite or could be a guy that doesn't adjust to the NHL where goalies stop pucks better and you can't just be a perimeter shooter. Overall unsure why this deal would take so long if that is the return and NJD can get a top line player for literally their spare parts that don't really hurt them now or in the future (along with the fact that Carolina is supposedly being aggressive and going for it more this year per their owner and wouldn't put an offer together to compete with this).

I think that rumor just got squashed with the LV/STL trade since STL have shown to be sellers.

I'll weigh in with my opinion that Holtz is not a good return for Meier who's entering his prime and is already a proven 1st line forward. I didn't believe that draft year was deep either. I see Holtz upside being 2nd line.

Now if NJD wants to put Nemec's name in the hat, I believe Grier will seriously listen.
 
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Just feels like something that would have already been finished by now if that was the offer on the table. I.e. NJD would have likely offered that up weeks ago and if SJ had nothing else comparable enough to the point where they're eliminating other teams like Carolina, STL, etc. they'd have accepted it.

Rumor that Grier turned down Bolduc and a pair of late 1st rounders from STL just doesn't seem to jive with Holtz, Zetterlund, and a 1st as the return. Given Holtz has been Mirco Mueller level misused this year, just don't see how you accept a deal for another team's scraps and a player that they scratched last night for performance (was bumped to the 4th line and played 8 mins the game prior and then scratched last night).

I think Zetterlund is a solid player and Holtz has a nice shot and could be elite or could be a guy that doesn't adjust to the NHL where goalies stop pucks better and you can't just be a perimeter shooter. Overall unsure why this deal would take so long if that is the return and NJD can get a top line player for literally their spare parts that don't really hurt them now or in the future (along with the fact that Carolina is supposedly being aggressive and going for it more this year per their owner and wouldn't put an offer together to compete with this).

Maybe the unimaginable is happening and somehow he got them to say yes to Nemec but I don’t think that’s it.
 
Serious question, would Grier, in the event Buffalo is checking in, fill them in on the offer they’re up against? Is that bad negotiating?
 
Serious question, would Grier, in the event Buffalo is checking in, fill them in on the offer they’re up against? Is that bad negotiating?
I don't think that GMs typically shop offers that specifically as an unwritten courtesy rule amongst each other. That said, he could probably talk about them having a really strong offer and what it would take from their system in his opinion to match or beat it. Then it is up to the other party to call his bluff or not.

I think that rumor just got squashed with the LV/STL trade since STL have shown to be sellers.

I'll weigh in with my opinion that Holtz is not a good return for Meier who's entering his prime and is already a proven 1st line forward. I didn't believe that draft year was deep either. I see Holtz upside being 2nd line.

Now if NJD wants to put Nemec's name in the hat, I believe Grier will seriously listen.
STL was always going to sell their UFAs with or without Meier. They're not rebuilding from the ground up like SJ. They're looking for 26 year olds with term/control to add to the Thomas/Kyrou core.
 
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This discussion of a fair return for Meier misses the point that any Meier trade is a trade over time, trading the present for the future. The Sharks will not be a solid playoff team (a reasonable goal for the organization) for at least five years. So the proper evaluation of a Meier trade is whether five years from now, are the players acquired (including those taken with draft picks received) more valuable than 31-year-old Meier? How well the Sharks do from a Meier trade does depend heavily on the organization's judgment of the future of any players acquired and who they draft with any picks received.
 


Sounds like Holtz + Zetterlund + 1st based on this and just what we can reasonably expect (barring Detroit/Buffalo making a late push).

Also perplexed that we're moving 26 year old Meier but are planning to hold on 28 (almost 29) year old Barabanov when his value will never be higher.
 
There is urgency with Meier, there is significantly less urgency with Barabanov given his contract situation. I do figure he'll be traded, but Meier is obviously the larger and more important piece right now.
 
I can't help but look at Carolina right now and see the sharks from 15 years ago. Good, but an unwillingness to go for the big piece to push them over the top.

If Grier killed the Carolina deal I still think it's Timo and if that's the case I'm guessing there is no real buffalo deal to be had. It's going to be a middling deal from the devils unless someone random jumps in.
 


Sounds like Holtz + Zetterlund + 1st based on this and just what we can reasonably expect (barring Detroit/Buffalo making a late push).

Also perplexed that we're moving 26 year old Meier but are planning to hold on 28 (almost 29) year old Barabanov when his value will never be higher.

Maybe he’s part of the deal?
 
I can't help but look at Carolina right now and see the sharks from 15 years ago. Good, but an unwillingness to go for the big piece to push them over the top.
The Sharks we're always willing to go for the big piece. The problem was that they thought they needed just one more piece when they really needed two.
 
There is urgency with Meier, there is significantly less urgency with Barabanov given his contract situation. I do figure he'll be traded, but Meier is obviously the larger and more important piece right now.
Value maximization means that there should be urgency in moving both of those guys. Still hold to the stance that he should be attached with Meier in a deal for peak return of high-end prospect(s) rather than taking a guy or two that are potentially less impactful while going out and getting a 2nd and 4th or something for Barabanov (neither of which are good odds to be NHL players historically).

The Sharks we're always willing to go for the big piece. The problem was that they thought they needed just one more piece when they really needed two.
Feel the opposite outside of Karlsson. Too many deadlines we used multiple lower level assets to get marginal depth players instead of paying a more premium asset to get the big name that created depth by moving a top 6 player to the bottom 6.
 
If Barabanov has value you deal him. Hes going to be worth less next year, and the sharks are still going to be awful.

This is the Reimer situation all over again and we couldve had a second and a prospect last deadline for him.
Where was a 2nd and a prospect on the table for Reimer? Given Grier's asking price was a 2nd for Reimer this offseason, I highly doubt that there was that type of offer on the table and we just said no to it.
 
Expecting Holtz, Zetterlund, and 2022 1st. Hopefully Grier can get an additional pick though.
 
That was the rumors around then. Remember this was during Joe Wills time
Joe Will or not, if that was on the table last deadline, the 2nd round pick still would have been on the table over the summer. I don't recall seeing anything related to Reimer other than the ask was a 2nd round pick in August.
 
Value maximization means that there should be urgency in moving both of those guys.
That's not necessarily true with Barabanov because of his lack of NHL experience. A player is only valued by how they are perceived by GMs around the league. If he plays at a 50+ point pace again next season his value will be similar to this year, even as a rental. Also, even though Barabanov is 28 he appears to still be getting better at the NHL level.
 
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