Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 1

[PacificOceanPotion]

Hey, it was worth a shot! I’m terrible at valuing assets in trade proposals. I’m always unsure of what’s too much or too little.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Hey, it was worth a shot! I’m terrible at valuing assets in trade proposals. I’m always unsure of what’s too much or too little.

Timo is Nico's best friend so we have to take into account the massive increase in value of the best friend of their captain.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Timo is Nico's best friend so we have to take into account the massive increase in value of the best friend of their captain.

They have undeniable chemistry in international play. That has to be enticing to NJ. As STL mentioned, I think a deal with Holtz, who has some chemistry with Eklund, would seem like a win for both sides. From a hockey perspective that seems doable. As far as the cap hit side of things, I’m preeetty sure NJ could offer Meier the salary he’s going to command. Holtz, a 1st in 24 and maybe a 3rd in 23 plus a roster player like Wood seems to be a fair trade. Or at least close.

 

[Gecklund]

Hey, it was worth a shot! I’m terrible at valuing assets in trade proposals. I’m always unsure of what’s too much or too little.

Understandable. It’s definitely not easy. Kudos for the effort.

One guy from NJD that I might try to get is Mercer. Dude fits what Grier likes really well and could either be a great winger for Bordeleau or a great C for Eklund in the future (could also flame out but who couldn’t?) Something like Mercer+1st+cap for an unextended Timo would be something I’d chase. Now I’d really try to get a Holtz+Mercer package but I don’t know if NJD would do that.

 

[timorous me]

Hey, it was worth a shot! I’m terrible at valuing assets in trade proposals. I’m always unsure of what’s too much or too little.

I think it's particularly hard to figure out what kind of return you could get when attaching an undesirable contract like Labanc's.

I'd also kind of wonder if it would be worth attaching him in such a deal. What would be the point of clearing up his cap space in that situation? I know cap space can have value, and even in a rebuild it can be utilized to harbor bad contracts in exchange for assets, but it feels like attaching Labanc's contract here--thereby lowering the return for Meier--would sort of negate the benefits you'd get from a subsequent trade to take on a different bad contract (and with Meier gone it seems that competing would also not be on the immediate agenda).

 

[seroes]

If we trade Meier for futures it's a full on tank/rebuild. If thats the direction we are going in there is no point in lowering the trade return value just to get rid of Labanc. Ride out the contract and hope he can rebound this season to give him some trade value if we retain salary. If not then ride out the last 2 years and move on. If we are trying to compete that trade makes us substantially worse and has nopoint.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I think it's particularly hard to figure out what kind of return you could get when attaching an undesirable contract like Labanc's.

I'd also kind of wonder if it would be worth attaching him in such a deal. What would be the point of clearing up his cap space in that situation? I know cap space can have value, and even in a rebuild it can be utilized to harbor bad contracts in exchange for assets, but it feels like attaching Labanc's contract here--thereby lowering the return for Meier--would sort of negate the benefits you'd get from a subsequent trade to take on a different bad contract (and with Meier gone it seems that competing would also not be on the immediate agenda).

For me the idea was taking back an equal valued contract in Severson who would be an actual 2nd pairing option. Labanc gets a fresh start and we sure up the defense a little more. I totally undervalued Meiers return. Adding in the 3rd was incentive to take back Labanc. In hindsight, I’d want Holtz and Foote, who you can tell I’m pretty high on. Not sure NJ deals 2 of their higher prospects, but for Meier, maybe they do two prospects, a roster player and a pick. It’s a big package but imo worth it for both sides. Sure it signals a pretty drastic shift in direction, but you get 2 pretty good young players to build with and maybe the turn around to competing happens a little faster. 2 steps back, 3 steps forward? Maybe I’m way off and I’m sure I’ll hear about it soon lol

 

[Juxtaposer]

I personally don’t think the Tkachuk deal was good at all for Calgary. Huberdeau is almost 30 and he’ll be very expensive to lock up without even getting much of his prime. I suspect the best asset in that trade will end up being the 2025 1st if Florida falls apart by then. I absolutely would not make an equivalent trade with Timo if given the chance.

If I trade Timo, it’s for high picks and/or top prospects, that’s it. I think our best option is something like Holtz+NJ 2023 1st (top-5 protected)+some kind of salary dump for Meier+Reimer. I’ve seen this deal thrown around on the trade forums and supported by Devils fans.

 

[TheBeard]

I personally don’t think the Tkachuk deal was good at all for Calgary. Huberdeau is almost 30 and he’ll be very expensive to lock up without even getting much of his prime. I suspect the best asset in that trade will end up being the 2025 1st if Florida falls apart by then. I absolutely would not make an equivalent trade with Timo if given the chance.

If I trade Timo, it’s for high picks and/or top prospects, that’s it. I think our best option is something like Holtz+NJ 2023 1st (top-5 protected)+some kind of salary dump for Meier+Reimer. I’ve seen this deal thrown around on the trade forums and supported by Devils fans.

The difference between us and Calgary is Calgary is a contender who also have some pretty solid prospects in the pipeline. This was a good trade for them that addressed both the immediacy of where they are and the potential of down the road.

 

[Herschel]

The difference between us and Calgary is Calgary is a contender who also have some pretty solid prospects in the pipeline. This was a good trade for them that addressed both the immediacy of where they are and the potential of down the road.

Were they really contenders last season? They won the Pacific but were an OT goal away from getting eliminated by the WC1 in the first round and lost to an Oilers team that couldn't even beat Colorado once.

They had the benefit of career-high seasons (goals and points) from Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm and Mangiapane, along with having basically no major injuries. Even if they had re-signed Gaudreau and kept Tkachuk it isn't hard to imagine that group not matching last season's success and the reality is they took a massive step back losing Gaudreau.

Unless you meant playoff contender... in which case fine.

 

[STL Shark]

The difference between us and Calgary is Calgary is a contender who also have some pretty solid prospects in the pipeline. This was a good trade for them that addressed both the immediacy of where they are and the potential of down the road.

Exactly. I think people are confusing the value of a Tkachuk trade with the form of that value in the pieces that were returned. Huberdeau and Weegar were both incredibly valuable pieces on their own that if traded for futures would have garnered significant hauls. Huberdeau would have cost probably two 1st round picks, a top prospect, and depth piece (and maybe more) for a contender to acquire in a trade this offseason. That's the "value" that was acquired by Calgary for him.

Just because it came in the form of a 29 year old elite 1st line winger, a top 4 D-Man, future 1st round pick and prospect doesn't change the value. Just have to convert elite 1st line winger and top 4 D-Man into pick/prospect form or whatever you prefer to judge upon. The form of that deal would make no sense for the Sharks in a Meier deal because the organization isn't in a remotely similar spot as Calgary based on the past few years. However, the value is a good basis for what a Meier trade could look like with multiple top-end assets having to be included (i.e. multiple 1st round picks and/or highly touted prospects that hold similar value to a 1st rounder).

 

[TheBeard]

Were they really contenders last season? They won the Pacific but were an OT goal away from getting eliminated by the WC1 in the first round and lost to an Oilers team that couldn't even beat Colorado once.

They had the benefit of career-high seasons (goals and points) from Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm and Mangiapane, along with having basically no major injuries. Even if they had re-signed Gaudreau and kept Tkachuk it isn't hard to imagine that group not matching last season's success and the reality is they took a massive step back losing Gaudreau.

Unless you meant playoff contender... in which case fine.

I think they were, they just didn’t get performances from the players they needed from

 

[Hodge]

Exactly. I think people are confusing the value of a Tkachuk trade with the form of that value in the pieces that were returned. Huberdeau and Weegar were both incredibly valuable pieces on their own that if traded for futures would have garnered significant hauls. Huberdeau would have cost probably two 1st round picks, a top prospect, and depth piece (and maybe more) for a contender to acquire in a trade this offseason. That's the "value" that was acquired by Calgary for him.

Just because it came in the form of a 29 year old elite 1st line winger, a top 4 D-Man, future 1st round pick and prospect doesn't change the value. Just have to convert elite 1st line winger and top 4 D-Man into pick/prospect form or whatever you prefer to judge upon. The form of that deal would make no sense for the Sharks in a Meier deal because the organization isn't in a remotely similar spot as Calgary based on the past few years. However, the value is a good basis for what a Meier trade could look like with multiple top-end assets having to be included (i.e. multiple 1st round picks and/or highly touted prospects that hold similar value to a 1st rounder).

Nobody was going to give up that much for Huberdeau without an extension being agreed to as part of the trade. Which obviously did not happen in Calgary.

There are so many ways this trade can go horribly wrong for the Flames. Best case scenario they’re out of the playoff picture and get the typical high end rental return for Huberdeau of a late 1st, B prospect and average roster player. Weegar probably returns a 2nd and 3rd or a late 1st. So they end up with 2-3 late 1sts, a mid round pick or two and some meh prospects for their elite 24 year old power forward.

Given how awful the division is they will probably be in a playoff spot and tempted to hang on to one or both players which could easily end in Huberdeau and Weegar walking in free agency. This still isn’t the worst case scenario which would be the Flames signing Huberdeau to a 10Mx8 extension that kicks in when he’s 30 years old.

 

[STL Shark]

Nobody was going to give up that much for Huberdeau without an extension being agreed to as part of the trade. Which obviously did not happen in Calgary.

There are so many ways this trade can go horribly wrong for the Flames. Best case scenario they’re out of the playoff picture and get the typical high end rental return for Huberdeau of a late 1st, B prospect and average roster player. Weegar probably returns a 2nd and 3rd or a late 1st. So they end up with 2-3 late 1sts, a mid round pick or two and some meh prospects for their elite 24 year old power forward.

Given how awful the division is they will probably be in a playoff spot and tempted to hang on to one or both players which could easily end in Huberdeau and Weegar walking in free agency. This still isn’t the worst case scenario which would be the Flames signing Huberdeau to a 10Mx8 extension that kicks in when he’s 30 years old.

Players get dealt for massive hauls of 1st round picks and prospects all the time on expiring deals without extensions locked in place (see literally the trade deadline every single year). That is why there are things like conditions on draft picks. Huberdeau easily nets a package similar to what Karlsson fetched given prime aged 100+ point scorers on reasonable deals rarely become available in a trade (even if only for a short-term). Dude has been a PPG+ player for 4 straight years and is coming off a 115 point season. Full season of that is expensive.

Re: Weegar, he also gets a nice haul given the age, production, and RH premium. Probably a 1st rounder straight-up with a conditional pick that would turn into a 2nd if re-signed at minimum. I mean we live in a world where an all-around worse and more expensive player on an expiring deal in Rasmus Ristolainen returned a 1st, 2nd, and an approximately equivalent bad player in Hagg (and that only happened a year ago).

 

[gaucholoco3]

FYI conditions based on resigning a player are no longer allowed under the current CBA

 

[LadyStanley]

Another Shark to Carolina

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Another Shark to Carolina

Was probably caught in Burns' beard

 

[KirbyDots]

Apparently Chmelevski signed in the KHL.

 

[mogambomoroo]

How are guys feeling about Detroit, Ottawa, Buffalo, Columbus etc. that is starting to go for the playoff push trade for Logan Couture?
I feel like he could be the clutch 2nd punch playoff performer for a team that makes it to playoffs, he has always been a very good in playoffs compared to regular season. His cap space is pretty large, but with little retention I could see it being a valuable asset. If Sharks don't retain, they can get picks and a bad contract back.

 

[timorous me]

Apparently Chmelevski signed in the KHL.

Damn, it's true. I thought he looked very good down the stretch, and though he's unlikely to ever be an impact player, he might be the one to have been dicked around the most meaningfully by the organization these past couple years, so I can't really blame him for leaving now when it seems like Grier didn't have interest in giving him a shot in the NHL this year:

 

[Barrie22]

Donskoi gets his jersey lifted to the rafters in seatle, local skate park but its the closest he will ever get to a jersey to rafters ceromony.

 

[Le Grand Quebecois]

Donskoi gets his jersey lifted to the rafters in seatle, local skate park but its the closest he will ever get to a jersey to rafters ceromony.

it was lifted in Finland.

 

[STL Shark]

Damn, it's true. I thought he looked very good down the stretch, and though he's unlikely to ever be an impact player, he might be the one to have been dicked around the most meaningfully by the organization these past couple years, so I can't really blame him for leaving now when it seems like Grier didn't have interest in giving him a shot in the NHL this year:

Just turned 23 so not really sure what you mean by "dicked around". He was a 6th round pick that had a good D+1 and Overage season in the OHL. Got the tough break of getting mono his first professional season and struggled, but that was nothing on the organization's end to cause that. He got hyped because of his overage/WJC performance, but he was a 22 year old this past season without huge draft pedigree. Not sure what more opportunity he was looking for until he showed the ability to dominate at the AHL level consistently.

 

[Hodge]

I guess when the DWJr. stans said that Chmelevski and Chekhovich were future stars they meant in the KHL.

Merkley’s next.

 

[Alaskanice]

Just turned 23 so not really sure what you mean by "dicked around". He was a 6th round pick that had a good D+1 and Overage season in the OHL. Got the tough break of getting mono his first professional season and struggled, but that was nothing on the organization's end to cause that. He got hyped because of his overage/WJC performance, but he was a 22 year old this past season without huge draft pedigree. Not sure what more opportunity he was looking for until he showed the ability to dominate at the AHL level consistently.

Sasha is a favorite of mine but he was alright on a bad Sharks team. With the new players, he saw his ice time here vanish. Over there, he’ll play at the top level, I believe.