2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[Flyerfan4life]

Absolutely. There's tons of stuff you can do with draft picks.

You can trade them for a league-bottom pending UFA and then sign him to a $25 million contract
You can use them to offload useful players for cap space for the above
You can trade them for the rights to a pending RFA that doesn't fit your timeline at all
You can use them to draft players you won't develop to their strengths

Truly the most flexible of assets.

i see what you did there.. hahaaa

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You know that you always have to use those picks to draft. You can package them with, lets just say Frost, and get an impact player with control in here.

Also, trading those guys out will give you cap space, which you can use to take on 1-2 year of deadspace along with a pick, to get more draft picks.

My overarching point here is that draft picks will give you extreme flexibility.

OK. Let's do a thought experiment.

Trade Provorov, former 7th overall.

Trade Sanhero, former 17 overall.

Trade Konecny, former 24 overall.

Trade Laughton, former 20 overall.

That's 4 first round picks we are apparently disappointed with, but want to replace them with 4 unknown first round picks.

And these are the guys who made it, We aren't talking about the Rubtsovs and O'Briens, who you can't even trade.

So, what are the odds you trade Provy, Sanheim, TK, Laughton for four first round picks who end up better? It'll probably be a lateral move, just take longer.

That's why I think you keep the players you have who you know are at least good. And if the team sucks, then cash in on your high draft pick which you won't be able to trade for otherwise.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Not re-signing every secondary talent bastard to generous long term terms would have enhanced their trade value.

The other caveat is moving talent, ensures higher draft position.

Plenty of teams have truly rebuilt, harvested high end picks. It’s a process if done right that works. The current path is riddled with failure. The Flyers will witness it come this draft day when they did everything possible to avoid a top 3 pick. For a few meaningless wins. Worth it I’m sure.

I do wonder who the next try mediocre loser they will go long term with. Tippet?

 

[sauce88]

OK. Let's do a thought experiment.

Trade Provorov, former 7th overall.

Trade Sanhero, former 17 overall.

Trade Konecny, former 24 overall.

Trade Laughton, former 20 overall.

That's 4 first round picks we are apparently disappointed with, but want to replace them with 4 unknown first round picks.

And these are the guys who made it, We aren't talking about the Rubtsovs and O'Briens, who you can't even trade.

So, what are the odds you trade Provy, Sanheim, TK, Laughton for four first round picks who end up better? It'll probably be a lateral move, just take longer.

That's why I think you keep the players you have who you know are at least good. And if the team sucks, then cash in on your high draft pick which you won't be able to trade for otherwise.

What would be better long term for this franchise:

Trading Provorov, for a first or futures that fill a hole on the roster elsewhere that is cheap and cost controlled while shedding his 6+mil contract. While simultaneously giving York and Zamula valuable NHL experience so that they can help the team compete sooner rather than kicking the development can down the road.

Or...

Keep playing Provorov 20+ mins a night which we see has contributed to mediocre to far subpar results, especially the last few seasons.

That's just the Provorov example.

 

[Curufinwe]

They can't even bring themselves to bench Seeler or Braun or Risto to get the young D experience.

 

[Curufinwe]

When Hextall was fired on 11/26/2018, the Flyers were in 26th position with a .478 P%.

Right now the Flyers are in 23rd with a P% of .500. But by 10:30 on Saturday night they could be as low as .409 if they lose all four games this week in regulation.

 

[TCTC]

That’s what they did two years ago when they threw away their first rounder to obtain Risto

I think draft picks are overrated in general, but that was just terrible asset management.

And now we're stuck with him for several years.

 

[VladDrag]

OK. Let's do a thought experiment.

Trade Provorov, former 7th overall.

Trade Sanhero, former 17 overall.

Trade Konecny, former 24 overall.

Trade Laughton, former 20 overall.

That's 4 first round picks we are apparently disappointed with, but want to replace them with 4 unknown first round picks.

And these are the guys who made it, We aren't talking about the Rubtsovs and O'Briens, who you can't even trade.

So, what are the odds you trade Provy, Sanheim, TK, Laughton for four first round picks who end up better? It'll probably be a lateral move, just take longer.

That's why I think you keep the players you have who you know are at least good. And if the team sucks, then cash in on your high draft pick which you won't be able to trade for otherwise.

**I want to be clear, I'm not advocating for trading every single person on the team right now**

I'm not sure if you're not grasping the concept that you don't have to only select players with those draft picks. Moving out contracts give you flexibility to a number of different options.

Another thought experiment: Let's say you trade Sanheim for a 1st pick. And you package that one with the 5th overall pick to move up to the 3rd overall pick and get a franchise changing player.

Also, you shouldn't just be looking to trade players your disappointed with, because then you're trading from a position of weakness. The goal of trading should be to put your team in an advantageous position moving forward. And that is different for each team, depending on where you are in your cycle. Some teams may prioritize get better players, that may be to get better assets, that may be to open up cap space.

 

[FlyerNutter]

**I want to be clear, I'm not advocating for trading every single person on the team right now**

I'm not sure if you're not grasping the concept that you don't have to only select players with those draft picks. Moving out contracts give you flexibility to a number of different options.

Another thought experiment: Let's say you trade Sanheim for a 1st pick. And you package that one with the 5th overall pick to move up to the 3rd overall pick and get a franchise changing player.

Also, you shouldn't just be looking to trade players your disappointed with, because then you're trading from a position of weakness. The goal of trading should be to put your team in an advantageous position moving forward. And that is different for each team, depending on where you are in your cycle. Some teams may prioritize get better players, that may be to get better assets, that may be to open up cap space.

Sanheim without the BS extension, with another asset say for Stankoven.

Creativity isn’t in the Flyers DNA however.

 

[VladDrag]

Not re-signing every secondary talent bastard to generous long term terms would have enhanced their trade value.

The other caveat is moving talent, ensures higher draft position.

Plenty of teams have truly rebuilt, harvested high end picks. It’s a process if done right that works. The current path is riddled with failure. The Flyers will witness it come this draft day when they did everything possible to avoid a top 3 pick. For a few meaningless wins. Worth it I’m sure.

I do wonder who the next try mediocre loser they will go long term with. Tippet?

If Tippett keeps going well, and scores 25-30g, shooting at 15%, that's the perfect trade candidate. Of course, if he does that, the Flyers will lock him up at 3 years 6million, or something crazy like that.

 

[Magua]

I’d minimize the importance of draft picks too if I had to defend Chaz’s honor. It’s a crime to be this ghastly in both draft evaluating and accumulating.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Trolling or not, just some of the dumbest reasoning I've ever seen.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Cap space is a thing also but what do I know?

They need a reset. It’s undeniable.

 

[deadhead]

Tippett is 23, and he's starting to look like the high draft pick he was. What are you going to trade him for, a late 1st rd pick that might become another Tippett in 5 years? That's the most you'll get.

You trade young players who aren't good fits, that's it, otherwise you build around them, in three years you can always move them toward the end of their contracts for NHL ready prospects and some draft picks thrown in.

It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild, unless you're Buffalo or New Jersey.
Flyers have a good young core, what they lack are elite players, Gauthier #5, 2023 #5?, 2024, maybe someone takes a step up (Brink?).
Gauthier, draft pick, TK, Farabee, N Cates, Frost, Foerster, Tippett, Brink/Allison/Lycksell - that's your top nine in two years?

Cap space is a thing also but what do I know?

They need a reset. It’s undeniable.

Cap space is only a thing if they want to waste money in free agency, otherwise they've locked up their starters and it'll be years until they have to pay their younger prospects.

 

[ajgoal]

Cap space is only a thing if they want to waste money in free agency

False.

 

[Magua]

Sanheim without the BS extension, with another asset say for Stankoven.

Creativity isn’t in the Flyers DNA however.

Giving all those assets up for a player you could’ve and should’ve just taken on draft day very very easily at lesser cost would be par for the course with the value in/out of this organization. But I’m not sure creative would be my word choice.

 

[Rebels57]

When Hextall was fired on 11/26/2018, the Flyers were in 26th position with a .478 P%.

Right now the Flyers are in 23rd with a P% of .500. But by 10:30 on Saturday night they could be as low as .409 if they lose all four games this week in regulation.

Giving all those assets up for a player you could’ve and should’ve just taken on draft day very very easily would be par for the course with the value in/out of this organization.

Our past-their-prime scouts don't get nearly enough flack. They have been pretty much awful since 2017.

 

[Curufinwe]

If Tippett keeps going well, and scores 25-30g, shooting at 15%, that's the perfect trade candidate. Of course, if he does that, the Flyers will lock him up at 3 years 6million, or something crazy like that.

Seems premature to me to talk about trading a 23 year old who is just starting to look the part, and is signed for another year at $1.5m and will be a RFA after that. It's not like the Flyers would get a massive haul for him.

 

[renberg]

There was a GM meeting last week. Usually the basis for some future trades is laid at that meeting. Chuck probably wasn't involved in any discussions which could be good or bad. Reports were that Patrick Allvin was a popular guy at the meeting. Horvat and Boeser's names were in play. So was Myers. The Canucks have cap issues and want to shore up their defense. Toronto and others were sniffing around.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Tippett is 23, and he's starting to look like the high draft pick he was. What are you going to trade him for, a late 1st rd pick that might become another Tippett in 5 years? That's the most you'll get.

You trade young players who aren't good fits, that's it, otherwise you build around them, in three years you can always move them toward the end of their contracts for NHL ready prospects and some draft picks thrown in.

It shouldn't take a decade to rebuild, unless you're Buffalo or New Jersey.
Flyers have a good young core, what they lack are elite players, Gauthier #5, 2023 #5?, 2024, maybe someone takes a step up (Brink?).
Gauthier, draft pick, TK, Farabee, N Cates, Frost, Foerster, Tippett, Brink/Allison/Lycksell - that's your top nine in two years?


Cap space is only a thing if they want to waste money in free agency, otherwise they've locked up their starters and it'll be years until they have to pay their younger prospects.

You have said a lot of things but woof.

 

[VladDrag]

Seems premature to me to talk about trading a 23 year old who is just starting to look the part, and is signed for another year at $1.5m and will be a RFA after that. It's not like the Flyers would get a massive haul for him.

Yeah it probably is.

Do you want to talk about Frost vs Tippett?

 

[gertbfrobe16]

How does one determine whether a urinal is lucky? Is this a factor of splashback?

it's the one with the flashing orange light.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Giving all those assets up for a player you could’ve and should’ve just taken on draft day very very easily at lesser cost would be par for the course with the value in/out of this organization. But I’m not sure creative would be my word choice.

I’m not sure it’s acceptable to tarnish the name of future superstar Cutter Gauthier

lll tell you what though. I’m excited to watch Farabee, Sanheim, and Provorov for the next 5 years.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

OK. Let's do a thought experiment.

Trade Provorov, former 7th overall.

Trade Sanhero, former 17 overall.

Trade Konecny, former 24 overall.

Trade Laughton, former 20 overall.

That's 4 first round picks we are apparently disappointed with, but want to replace them with 4 unknown first round picks.

And these are the guys who made it, We aren't talking about the Rubtsovs and O'Briens, who you can't even trade.

So, what are the odds you trade Provy, Sanheim, TK, Laughton for four first round picks who end up better? It'll probably be a lateral move, just take longer.

That's why I think you keep the players you have who you know are at least good. And if the team sucks, then cash in on your high draft pick which you won't be able to trade for otherwise.

Trading those players also make us a worse team, which makes our picks higher, which give us a better opportunity at high end talent

 

[Magua]

I’m not sure it’s acceptable to tarnish the name of future superstar Cutter Gauthier

You mean Tuomaala. Stankoven went 47th in 2021, 1 pick later.