2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

i don't disagree with Deadhead's overarching point in that Clarke, Holmgren, Lombardi are huge in mandating the overall direction and that Fletcher is basically implementing their vision.

However, Fletcher is still an incompetent idiot and I doubt he wants to do a proper rebuild

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How long is he willing to wait for Fletcher to clear space?

It’ll be ironic when the Flyers lose out on him because he can’t wait any longer.

Just like Jagr and the Flyers when it came to Parise/Suter (who Chuck signed).

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

i don't disagree with Deadhead's overarching point in that Clarke, Holmgren, Lombardi are huge in mandating the overall direction and that Fletcher is basically implementing their vision.

However, Fletcher is still an incompetent idiot and I doubt he wants to do a proper rebuild

The point is that we all agree that they all suck. We just don’t post pages upon pages absolving Chuck Fletcher of any and all blame. Fletcher is cut from the same cloth. He agrees with everything they say.

 

[Danko]

The point is that we all agree that they all suck. We just don’t post pages upon pages absolving Chuck Fletcher of any and all blame. Fletcher is cut from the same cloth. He agrees with everything they say.

fletcher is a grown ass man.

 

[deadhead]

Damn, sounds like he’s shitty at his job if you asked me and in no way shape or form worthy of pages and pages of defense.

It's never been about defending Fletcher, but exposing the reality that firing Fletcher changes nothing if Scott, Clarke and Holmgren are in place - they'll just hire another GM with a "bias for action." Wash, rinse, repeat. Have to do things the "Flyer way."

What makes a GM brilliant in most cases is situational - a patient owner with deep pockets that allows a GM to take the long view and focus on value, not short-term results. So you can take advantage of opportunities to add value even when they hurt the team in the short-run, and you're not asked to make moves with ticket sales in mind.

 

[FlyerNutter]

fletcher is a grown ass man.

He/him

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It's never been about defending Fletcher, but exposing the reality that firing Fletcher changes nothing if Scott, Clarke and Holmgren are in place - they'll just hire another GM with a "bias for action." Wash, rinse, repeat. Have to do things the "Flyer way."

What makes a GM brilliant in most cases is situational - a patient owner with deep pockets that allows a GM to take the long view and focus on value, not short-term results. So you can take advantage of opportunities to add value even when they hurt the team in the short-run, and you're not asked to make moves with ticket sales in mind.

And none of us have argued otherwise other then stating that Dave Scott isn’t as involved as you believe. We’ve stated that Fletcher has been horrendous at his job given that mandate which you take personally and defend everything Chuck does as if he’s your father.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's never been about defending Fletcher, but exposing the reality that firing Fletcher changes nothing if Scott, Clarke and Holmgren are in place - they'll just hire another GM with a "bias for action." Wash, rinse, repeat. Have to do things the "Flyer way."

What makes a GM brilliant in most cases is situational - a patient owner with deep pockets that allows a GM to take the long view and focus on value, not short-term results. So you can take advantage of opportunities to add value even when they hurt the team in the short-run, and you're not asked to make moves with ticket sales in mind.

How come you never said anything about Scott or Holmgren or Clarke when the team was doing well in 19-20?

 

[Magua]

Even if they gave Fletcher a mandate to win now, I don’t think the mandate was to acquire mostly shit players and take a bath on every important decision.

I’ve done this ten times, but Fletcher has never ever been about building through the draft.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The point is that we all agree that they all suck. We just don’t post pages upon pages absolving Chuck Fletcher of any and all blame. Fletcher is cut from the same cloth. He agrees with everything they say.

Fletcher got his start in Florida under Clarke. Clarke & Homer worked together for a long time. Lombardi worked under Clarke & Homer during his first stint with the Flyers before he left for LA.

These guys are all like minded individuals because they all come from the same bubble. That’s why Fletcher got the job in the first place. It’s why nobody will be surprised if Fletcher gets kicked upstairs when they feel he’s not longer fit to do the job which is probably approaching soon.

 

[JABEE]

I feel like JVR getting moved is going to happen

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Spoiler: Not a super legit report, but just for the schadenfreude of the Flyers missing out on JG..

He apparently knew the Hamilton move

 

[Tripod]

The point is that we all agree that they all suck. We just don’t post pages upon pages absolving Chuck Fletcher of any and all blame. Fletcher is cut from the same cloth. He agrees with everything they say.

Yup.

Being you'd the team is not rebuilding does not mean that the GM has to bleed asset after asset trying to get better. Look at the Canes as an example.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

Even if they gave Fletcher a mandate to win now, I don’t think the mandate was to acquire mostly shit players.

I’ve done this ten times, but Fletcher has never ever been about building through the draft.

And that’s kind of a problem for Fletcher. Either he’s supposed to do an aggressive retool and is failing miserably by making the defense worse and mishandling the cap so badly that he can’t sign the best free agent on the market who actually wants to come here. Or, he’s supposed to rebuild but hasn’t dropped any salary or veterans. Hey sucks ass either way you slice it, folks.

 

[deadhead]

And none of us have argued otherwise other then stating that Dave Scott isn’t as involved as you believe. We’ve stated that Fletcher has been horrendous at his job given that mandate which you take personally and defend everything Chuck does as if he’s your father.

I don't think he's been horrible, he's been mediocre, but so would be just about any GM put in this situation.
And we see the same bad moves all over the NHL, Hextall just overpaid Rakell, St Louis gave Schenn an awful extension, and so on.

How many owners are both smart enough and patient enough to say:
1) we're stagnant, let's take a couple years and reload
2) let's not chase a playoff spot at the TDL and grossly overpay
3) let's take a chance on a young and upcoming HC instead of a 2nd tier retread

I don't think most NHL GMs are stone idiots, I think a lot of times they're pressured to make short-term moves. The owners want bragging rights and seats filled, and lack any vision.
Their attitude is probably "apres me le deluge" because most will be fired in 3-4 years, so cross your fingers, hope things work out and you buy another year or two - and save every penny if you have any common sense.

 

[JABEE]

Family Comes First.

Bring him home.

 

[Redpath]

I'm torn on Gaudreau. At least it'd be a bit of excitement amid this mess

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Imagine if, last summer, they had instead kept Ghost, aimed for someone like Manson (yes, nitpickers, I know he had a clause) instead of Risto, and not acquired $6m of dead cap for the rest of time in Ellis

And perhaps dumped the French brigade and tried hiring someone who doesn't ride a foot-powered stone car to the arena. But that last bit might've been a bit too much to ask.

The team probably still sucks, but they keep their 22/23 2nds and possibly add another if Robert and co allows Manson/whoever to be traded

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I don't think he's been horrible, he's been mediocre, but so would be just about any GM put in this situation.
And we see the same bad moves all over the NHL, Hextall just overpaid Rakell, St Louis gave Schenn an awful extension, and so on.

How many owners are both smart enough and patient enough to say:
1) we're stagnant, let's take a couple years and reload
2) let's not chase a playoff spot at the TDL and grossly overpay
3) let's take a chance on a young and upcoming HC instead of a 2nd tier retread

I don't think most NHL GMs are stone idiots, I think a lot of times they're pressured to make short-term moves. The owners want bragging rights and seats filled, and lack any vision.
Their attitude is probably "apres me le deluge" because most will be fired in 3-4 years, so cross your fingers, hope things work out and you buy another year or two - and save every penny if you have any common sense.

We know, it just has no basis in reality.

 

[JABEE]

 

[Sombastate]

Even if they gave Fletcher a mandate to win now, I don’t think the mandate was to acquire mostly shit players and take a bath on every important decision.

I’ve done this ten times, but Fletcher has never ever been about building through the draft.

That's the only point that matters. Even if it is WIN NOW. A person who had an IQ somewhere above absolute zero would win a trade OCCASIONALLY. The only move he has "won" had Patrick and Myers being traded for Stephen Hawking.

 

[Danko]

chuck almost has to go get Johnny and give up assets at this point. Otherwise your alternative for your aggressive retool is overpriced kadri, Malkin(not happening) or running it back (probably the best option) but waiving Oskar and getting tony d make that very unlikely.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Look how it ended for all four with their last GM jobs. All four completely burnt a hole through their pockets in capspace & assets on horrendous moves that didn’t even need hindsight. The most successful of the bunch in Lombardi got himself fired shortly after winning two cups because his unwillingness to make smart moves to get around the cap & extend his team’s window more. Even in the NHL where that type of success in one place usually buys yourself right or wrong some shelf & he still f***ed that up.

 

[flyerslducks]

Why is NJ suddenly the "it" team that everyones obsessed with?

f*** new jersey. First, they get hischier or Patrick...then they win the lottery and make us get cutter. I just want gaudreau to come here just so they can't get him lmaooo

 

[Psuhockey]

chuck almost has to go get Johnny and give up assets at this point. Otherwise your alternative for your aggressive retool is overpriced kadri, Malkin(not happening) or running it back (probably the best option) but waiving Oskar and getting tony d make that very unlikely.

They have no choice but to sign Gaudreau. What are they selling otherwise to get fans back into the building? I doubt Gaudreau is even enough outside a couple of months, but without him they have Tortorella and a guy half the fanbase thinks is a racist. Good luck selling tickets with that.