Speculation: 2022-23 Management/Coaching/Ownership

[duckpuck]

Truly your logic is dismal.

You just had several people say the team didn't quit and kept competing. You get that by watching the team. If you didn't watch the team and don't have access to watch the team, then showing how many one-goal games the team was involved with a less talented team shows the competitiveness. Despite the losing plenty in COVID season, the team kept fighting with several one-goal games. The stats/table match the eye test. That's just common sense if one is able to understand tables and stats.

Going into year 3, we see the team coming back from a two goal deficit to win in OT. Oh my, yet another one-goal differential game. People are noticing the lack of quit on this team. They just didn't notice it's been here for the past two previous seasons. Just like you didn't notice with your post b/c you can't decipher stats in a table.

Logic pot meet kettle. You can't make definitive conclusions about 1 game losses when there are so many variables.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

If I was Verbeek I would be texting Trotz "Hey you up?" tonight after that showing.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Way outshot for the 2nd straight game, there cannot be a single poster on here that thinks this team is going to be good playing this way.

 

[bsu]

I wonder what Verbeeks logic is not even contacting the agents of Zegras and Terry for an extension in the off season.... and his logic was "I want them to focus on hockey not the contract" if we signed them wouldn't that make them focus on hockey and not the contract? I didn't understand that. Of course they are going to think about it.... all their peers are signing 8 years deals. To me not signing them this off season is a gamble with very little upside... It's like making a 1000 dollar bet to win 50 bucks. Like does Verbeek really think he's going to save money? What's the point? Have them go through a miserable season and think they want to sign long term on a small market team with half the arena full by game 10 for cheaper? Players always get more and more every offseason and with the news of cap rising so much its only going to get worse. Zegras brings all the attention and Terry is our best player easily it's not even arguable.

What are the benefits and upside to not signing them in the off season? Could someone share because I'm drawing a blank. Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of, maybe @Static knows. The only logical one I can think of is if one did them has a career ending injury (knock on wood).. But there's insurance for that....

 

[Static]

I wonder what Verbeeks logic is not even contacting the agents of Zegras and Terry for an extension in the off season.... and his logic was "I want them to focus on hockey not the contract" if we signed them wouldn't that make them focus on hockey and not the contract? I didn't understand that. Of course they are going to think about it.... all their peers are signing 8 years deals. To me not signing them this off season is a gamble with very little upside... It's like making a 1000 dollar bet to win 50 bucks. Like does Verbeek really think he's going to save money? What's the point? Have them go through a miserable season and think they want to sign long term on a small market team with half the arena full by game 10 for cheaper? Players always get more and more every offseason and with the news of cap rising so much its only going to get worse. Zegras brings all the attention and Terry is our best player easily it's not even arguable.

What are the benefits and upside to not signing them in the off season? Could someone share because I'm drawing a blank. Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of, maybe @Static knows. The only logical one I can think of is if one did them has a career ending injury (knock on wood).. But there's insurance for that....

The upside of not signing them this offseason is making sure they are actually good for more than one season, that applies to Terry especially. It is terrible business to sign players after one good year. For instance, should we have signed comtois after his year in 2020? Good thing we didn't get him locked down long term.

If zegras and Terry have great years again the odds of them appreciably beating the contracts given out this summer are not high, and if they do, that is mitigated by the amount the cap goes up. Again, the cap is going up by $1 million. Applied to an $8 million cap hit, the same raise is $96 K.

The risk/reward of signing them after one year is much much much higher than waiting to make sure they can do it again. And if zegras refused to sign as a player still on his elc because the team isn't good then that would say as much about his hubris than anything else. I'd put the odds of that at low single digits.

 

[bsu]

The upside of not signing them this offseason is making sure they are actually good for more than one season, that applies to Terry especially. It is terrible business to sign players after one good year. For instance, should we have signed comtois after his year in 2020? Good thing we didn't get him locked down long term.

If zegras and Terry have great years again the odds of them appreciably beating the contracts given out this summer are not high, and if they do, that is mitigated by the amount the cap goes up. Again, the cap is going up by $1 million. Applied to an $8 million cap hit, the same raise is $96 K.

The risk/reward of signing them after one year is much much much higher than waiting to make sure they can do it again. And if zegras refused to sign as a player still on his elc because the team isn't good then that would say as much about his hubris than anything else. I'd put the odds of that at low single digits.

I mean anyone that watches the games sees their impact nightly. Zegras is a top 3-5 young player in the entire world by almost every account (there's a reason why he's on every single commercial and already on the cover of EA NHL) and Terry is our best player by a country mile nightly. Are you expecting them to get worse?

 

[Static]

I mean anyone that watches the games sees their impact nightly. Zegras is a top 3-5 young player in the entire world by almost every account (there's a reason why he's on every single commercial and already on the cover of EA NHL) and Terry is our best player by a country mile nightly. Are you expecting them to get worse?

Teams use numbers as their precedent for contracts, that's just how it is. I expect Terry to play just as well as last year but also not score as much, and that will affect his contract. Terry so far is proving me wrong, but zegras has not been very good through these first two games. Two games doesn't mean much, so we'll see.

 

[bsu]

Teams use numbers as their precedent for contracts, that's just how it is. I expect Terry to play just as well as last year but also not score as much, and that will affect his contract. Terry so far is proving me wrong, but zegras has not been very good through these first two games. Two games doesn't mean much, so we'll see.

EVERY single team in the league would be lining up for Zegras.... on ticket sales, merch and advertising alone.

 

[Static]

EVERY single team in the league would be lining up for Zegras.... on ticket sales, merch and advertising alone.

That doesn't have anything to do with his next contract.

 

[bsu]

That doesn't have anything to do with his next contract.

It might. What if he decides not to sign long term and take a shorter deal then QO like some others? Who knows what will happen, if we signed him we wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[Static]

It might. What if he decides not to sign long term and take a shorter deal then QO like some others? Who knows what will happen, if we signed him we wouldn't have to worry about it.

He doesn't hit free agency for six years. If he's angling to leave because $8 million per isnt good enough for him on his second contract then good riddance. That would be ridiculous.

 

[bsu]

He doesn't hit free agency for six years. If he's angling to leave because $8 million per isnt good enough for him on his second contract then good riddance. That would be ridiculous.

It's not only about the money though... It's about the team and winning among other things... Who knows maybe a player wants to be close to family or play for their childhood team. There's many variables and I rather be safe and sign one of the best young players that is making our organization money we never seen a player in our organization advertised this much and get so much publicity.... Ever. I don't see anyone else with your same view on this and not just on this website.

 

[Static]

It's not only about the money though... It's about the team and winning among other things... Who knows maybe a player wants to be close to family or play for their childhood team. There's many variables and I rather be safe and sign one of the best young players that is making our organization money we never seen a player in our organization advertised this much and get so much publicity.... Ever. I don't see anyone else with your same view on this and not just on this website.

If he wants to leave for things other than money then why would he be more likely to sign now than in a year. That doesn't make any sense. If he wants to leave that badly he will leave.

For some reason you are equating me thinking that not signing him now isn't some terrible thing as me not wanting to sign him at all. I don't understand that. When he is signed to his long term deal we will see if verbeek waiting a year possibly cost him cap space. If it does at all, my bet is it's negligible, certainly worth the price of making sure he is the player worthy of that sort of financial commitment.

 

[bsu]

If he wants to leave for things other than money then why would he be more likely to sign now than in a year. That doesn't make any sense. If he wants to leave that badly he will leave.

Because he would be signed before another miserable season.... And his buddy just got the same deal.... Same with many other young players around the league that's organization believes in their young players enough to do that. Anyways agree to disagree not going to argue anymore about something only one person in the world thinks. I hope the very small possibility of us saving like 100k with all the other risk works out for us.

 

[Static]

Because he would be signed before another miserable season.... And his buddy just got the same deal.... Same with many other young players around the league that's organization believes in their young players enough to do that. Anyways agree to disagree not going to argue anymore about something only one person thinks.

As what was said before, his buddy has played in twice as many NHL games. You keep bringing in things that have very little bearing on zegras' contact and adding in his personal desires as if you know them.

I could say that I think zegras will sign for less because he wants to give verbeek as much space as he can to improve the team. I have no basis of fact to make that claim, but I can say it.

 

[bsu]

As what was said before, his buddy has played in twice as many NHL games. You keep bringing in things that have very little bearing on zegras' contact and adding in his personal desires as if you know them.

His buddy also had 2 major injuries already.... But let's ignore that. As I said you're in the minority.... Very much so well see what happens

 

[Sean Garrity]

It's not only about the money though... It's about the team and winning among other things... Who knows maybe a player wants to be close to family or play for their childhood team. There's many variables and I rather be safe and sign one of the best young players that is making our organization money we never seen a player in our organization advertised this much and get so much publicity.... Ever. I don't see anyone else with your same view on this and not just on this website.

If he's going to leave for the reasons that you stated, then trying to sign him this year v next year isn't going to make a difference IMO. By that logic, if anything, waiting is actually better because we were horrible last year.

 

[bsu]

If he's going to leave for the reasons that you stated, then trying to sign him this year v next year isn't going to make a difference IMO. By that logic, if anything, waiting is actually better because we were horrible last year.

I mean seeing your best buddy and multiple young players take 8 year deals in the offseason and having the trust from their organizations to do that might affect his views. Who knows though I just always rather have the sure thing if it's possible. Verbeek saying he didn't even begin discussions with their agents rubbed me the wrong way. Seems like that would be part of the job of a GM to do due diligence....

 

[Sean Garrity]

I mean seeing your best buddy and multiple young players take 8 year deals in the offseason and having the trust from their organizations to do that might affect his views. Who knows though I just always rather have the sure thing if it's possible. Verbeek saying he didn't even begin discussions with their agents rubbed me the wrong way. Seems like that would be part of the job of a GM to do due diligence....

My OP got deleted so I'll try to clean it up for the mod.

I understand that you feel a certain type of way. However, and again, if he's going to leave for the reasons that you originally stated then this year v next year does not matter. Thus, the two statements that have been made contradict themselves. He's not signed, that's a fact that I think we all should learn to live with as opposed to harping on every single day in multiple threads. It may or may not affect things long term, but my guess is that it does not because he's a professional and likely understands that it's a business.

 

[duckpuck]

As what was said before, his buddy has played in twice as many NHL games. You keep bringing in things that have very little bearing on zegras' contact and adding in his personal desires as if you know them.

I could say that I think zegras will sign for less because he wants to give verbeek as much space as he can to improve the team. I have no basis of fact to make that claim, but I can say it.

Is there any scenario (other than career ending injury) where the ducks don't want Zegras on their roster for the next 8 years? I can't think of one. So it is then just a question of price. Even if Zegras has a down year this year (which is possible given the team's play so far), he's still going to command a huge contract. I see very little upside in waiting to sign him - it just gets more expensive if you wait and, as BSU mentioned, there's the real risk that you alienate Zegras by stringing him along while his peers are getting long term deals.

I think you have a better argument with Terry who had several mediocre/poor years in the NHL before breaking out last year and Terry is older (which means a long term deal pushes into his 30s). I'd still lean toward signing him, since he seems like future captain material. But there is no reason not to lock up Zegras during his prime.

Edit: The additional benefit of signing zegras early is the AAV will be higher now as a percentage of total cap (when the ducks have cap) and lower as a percentage of cap in future years when they need to sign Drysdale, McTavish, and the other young players coming through the system. It is better to front load the deal (in a cap sense) so you have more cap when you hopefully hit your contending window.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Is there any scenario (other than career ending injury) where the ducks don't want Zegras on their roster for the next 8 years? I can't think of one. So it is then just a question of price. Even if Zegras has a down year this year (which is possible given the team's play so far), he's still going to command a huge contract. I see very little upside in waiting to sign him - it just gets more expensive if you wait and, as BSU mentioned, there's the real risk that you alienate Zegras by stringing him along while his peers are getting long term deals.

I think you have a better argument with Terry who had several mediocre/poor years in the NHL before breaking out last year and Terry is older (which means a long term deal pushes into his 30s). I'd still lean toward signing him, since he seems like future captain material. But there is no reason not to lock up Zegras during his prime.

Unless he get's a significant injury or goes for 40 or 100 points, I don't think this year has any bearing on the price of his contract. Verbeek has his philosophy, and I think we all just need to understand and accept it.

edit: was talking about Zegras

 

[duckpuck]

Unless he get's a significant injury or goes for 40 or 100 points, I don't think this year has any bearing on the price of his contract.

Who?

 

[Mr Quacksworth]

The contract situations of Terry and Zegras are obviously huge factors for this team moving forward, as they'll be two of our best forwards for the immediate future. Signing them to reasonable contracts is something we can, easily, all agree on. Unfortunately this seems to cause extra abrasiveness from certain posters, and tbh it's gotten annoying, immature, and gets disheartening to the point where I stop reading posts.

As a longtime lurker and rare poster, I enjoy seeing the back and forth of opinions of my favorite team. Thoughts I've often wrestled with myself and discussed with friends ad nauseum. However, some of you have this attitude that "my opinion is right and if you disagree, you're an idiotic fool". Hammering this notion to, what seems like, no end. Some of you would do well to not post so much, so often.

And if your motto is, loosely, "block me or suffer me" you need to do a little introspection on how you talk to/with others and realize how that reflects on you more than others.

Wouldn't hurt to lower the temperatures around here. Anyways, go Ducks!

 

[Sean Garrity]

Who?

I should've clarified, Zegras.

 

[bsu]

EDIT: Three now.

I get the whole show me more and prove it but that goes more for players like Comtois who don't make an impact all game (not a play driver) ... Terry is our best player nightly, eye test, production etc... Even when he doesn't score he creates multiple grade A chances a game... Then take into account we barely have the puck as a team.