Speculation: 2022-23 Management/Coaching/Ownership

[Rybread86]

If we had 3 players like Carrick that could play up and down the lineup but also bring semi-toughness that would be nice. We don't need a Reeves type absolutely useless out there.

How many Reeves can you come up with that are playing still?

I dont believe this pure enforcer everyone is worried about still even exists outside of a small sample size. I also disagree (not you, others) that Des was only a fighter. Des is not a Reeves type guy and can be an every night player, or at worst 2/3 nights. He is decent in his own zone, hes not slow and he provides a ton of energy outside of just fighting.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I mean it's PV's team, he built this thing. He wants a pack mentality but you can't make a pack of kittens into a pride of lions.

 

[duckpuck]

Des was alright, he wasn’t worthless outside of fighting.

Team toughness is fine, guys like moen(carrick) are good for building a team….. but the game is going away from those fighter types and if the can’t keep up with the game, they really shouldn’t be out there.


The terry incident sucked, but it’s nothing an enforcer woulda helped…. Terry does need to be smarter going into those types of situations.

You've constructed a strawman. Outside of Dirk (maybe), no one is asking for an enforcer/goon who can't take a regular shift. Des was far from that - he is strong on the forecheck, finishes checks, and was decent on the PK. He also had a surprisingly good shot (but not much ability to create shots).

If you don't ice a guy like Des, then you needs multiple Mansons, Carricks, Domis, etc. to have team toughness. The ducks are utterly lacking in that type of player. So when Verbeek says guys need to step up, who on the current roster is he referring to exactly? The guys the ducks have with size aren't particularly tough or mean (Grant being a perfect example, though I'd put Shat, Jones and Comtois in that boderline soft category to some extent).

Verbeek seems to think that players should be more like he was - small but able to take care their own business. But its a different era and even in his day, Verbeek was a pretty unique player in that regard. Guys like Zegras, Fowler, Terry, and Drysdale will never bring that toughness element - and they probably shouldn't even try. He needs players on the roster to balance that out and he's failed in that regard - only Carrick and possibly Benoit.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You've constructed a strawman. Outside of Dirk (maybe), no one is asking for an enforcer/goon who can't take a regular shift. Des was far from that - he is strong on the forecheck, finishes checks, and was decent on the PK. He also had a surprisingly good shot (but not much ability to create shots).

If you don't ice a guy like Des, then you needs multiple Mansons, Carricks, Domis, etc. to have team toughness. The ducks are utterly lacking in that type of player. So when Verbeek says guys need to step up, who on the current roster is he referring to exactly? The guys the ducks have with size aren't particularly tough or mean (Grant being a perfect example, though I'd put Shat, Jones and Comtois in that boderline soft category to some extent).

Verbeek seems to think that players should be more like he was - small but able to take care their own business. But its a different era and even in his day, Verbeek was a pretty unique player in that regard. Guys like Zegras, Fowler, Terry, and Drysdale will never bring that toughness element - and they probably shouldn't even try. He needs players on the roster to balance that out and he's failed in that regard - only Carrick and possibly Benoit.

Comtois Jones mctavish all fit that role, hell vatrano fits it too

 

[bsu]

Comtois and Jones aren't going to stop anything, same with McTavish. Unless you count holding, grabbing or trying to tackle someone. They aren't fighters, they are semi physical (their actual hockey game) but I don't see them deterring anything... The most they will do is draw a couple penalties.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Comtois and Jones aren't going to stop anything, same with McTavish. Unless you count holding, grabbing or trying to tackle someone. They aren't fighters, they are semi physical (their actual hockey game) but I don't see them deterring anything... The most they will do is draw a couple penalties.

Which is pretty much all they need to do in todays NHL.

What fighters do the lightning have? Maroon? who 9/10 basically just hugs the other person?
Who does colorado have? Manson... who is prob better off not fighting.
Oilers just traded kassian.... now their tough guy consist of Nurse

I dont mind adding size on the back end... right now its pretty soft... but again some people stuck in 2003 when it comes to roster building.

 

[Rybread86]

Comtois Jones mctavish all fit that role, hell vatrano fits it too

Comtois - might not even be on the roster if he repeats last season
Jones - out an entire year, no idea how physical he will be when he returns
McT - We've seen for all of 9 games? No idea how physical or mean he will be when playing against men, not boys
Vatrano - small but sounds feisty?

If you think the teams physical play and grit is up to par, I think you're in the minority. But maybe your on track with management "good enough". I see a team asking to be physically abused.

I dont mind adding size on the back end... right now its pretty soft... but again some people stuck in 2003 when it comes to roster building.

If you think anyone here is asking for a 2003/2007 lineup I dont think you are reading any of us right.

Look at the past at least 5 Cup champs. They all had a mix of skill, size and toughness. We're not asking for the return of Parros (ok, well maybe that would be kinda awesome) but getting some kind of size and attitude back to this roster which it is sorely missing.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Comtois - might not even be on the roster if he repeats last season
Jones - out an entire year, no idea how physical he will be when he returns
McT - We've seen for all of 9 games? No idea how physical or mean he will be when playing against men, not boys
Vatrano - small but sounds feisty?

If you think the teams physical play and grit is up to par, I think you're in the minority. But maybe your on track with management "good enough". I see a team asking to be physically abused.

Id say the defense is a bit on the soft/small side and i wouldnt mind grabbing a player there...... but i want nothing to do with enforcer type, or useless player that plays >5 mins a night for protection.

Marchament woulda been a solid addition to the line up, would have also been cool with Lucic w/ asset... neither of those panned out.

I dont think physicality/grit/fighting is as important in hockey... we have a number of players that can play gritty/physical.

Comtois - might not even be on the roster if he repeats last season
Jones - out an entire year, no idea how physical he will be when he returns
McT - We've seen for all of 9 games? No idea how physical or mean he will be when playing against men, not boys
Vatrano - small but sounds feisty?

If you think the teams physical play and grit is up to par, I think you're in the minority. But maybe your on track with management "good enough". I see a team asking to be physically abused.



If you think anyone here is asking for a 2003/2007 lineup I dont think you are reading any of us right.

Look at the past at least 5 Cup champs. They all had a mix of skill, size and toughness. We're not asking for the return of Parros (ok, well maybe that would be kinda awesome) but getting some kind of size and attitude back to this roster which it is sorely missing.

I disagree.... where are you goign to stick this size or attitude?

we going to move terry cause hes too soft?

 

[Rybread86]

Id say the defense is a bit on the soft/small side and i wouldnt mind grabbing a player there...... but i want nothing to do with enforcer type, or useless player that plays >5 mins a night for protection.

Marchament woulda been a solid addition to the line up, would have also been cool with Lucic w/ asset... neither of those panned out.

I dont think physicality/grit/fighting is as important in hockey... we have a number of players that can play gritty/physical.

Well...

1) how many pure enforcers who get >5min a night still exist in this league?
2) Who here has asked for a 100% pure enforcer?
3) The past however many Cup champs would like a word with you about not needing physicality/grit/fighting

Or D is soft. We're hoping Benoit is actually the guy who plays in the lineup because hes the only one who would add any physicalness but he couldnt hold the spot last year. If its Mahura? Eesh.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Well...

1) how many pure enforcers who get >5min a night still exist in this league?
2) Who here has asked for a 100% pure enforcer?
3) The past however many Cup champs would like a word with you about not needing physicality/grit/fighting

Or D is soft. We're hoping Benoit is actually the guy who plays in the lineup because hes the only one who would add any physicalness but he couldnt hold the spot last year. If its Mahura? Eesh.

Which past champ? None of them really had fighters over the last 4 years.

Some have physicality/grit... but not as much as your suggesting.

I agree we could use a little physicality on the back end.... up front i think were plenty physical.

 

[Rybread86]

I disagree.... where are you goign to stick this size or attitude?

we going to move terry cause hes too soft?

Depends on a number of things. Does Comtois bounce back at all or was he a one hit wonder? Is Henrique trade bait or sticking around? Does Jones solidify himself on this roster? Is Grant getting extended or moved? Is Silfverberg a tradable asset, is he healthy, does he get bought out? Can Carrick do enough going forward to remain in the lineup?

We have a good amount of young and unproven guys as well as older vets on expiring deals. Possibilities are endless at this point. This is not a set roster by any means.

 

[Duck Off]

If you do want to listen to the podcast with Verbeek, then go to the 1:51:37 mark. The video should start there. Just move the cursor over until you hear they start talking hockey.



As @Duck Off shared, Verbeek skirted around questions. There was one instance where Verbeek was asked about cap space and utilizing it either now or going forward, but Verbeek's answer was the youth need to get stronger and prepared. Verbeek completely avoided answering that question. Maybe Verbeek doesn't want to share his overall game plan for the Ducks.

On the subject of Klingberg, I came away with two thoughts: 1) We wanted Klingberg longer than a year and probably at a lower salary. 2) We got lucky with Klingberg gambling on himself for a year at $7 mil. After missing out on Nino at $4 mil AAV, the Ducks really needed to get to the cap floor and Klingberg's $7 mil solved that problem. IMO, Verbeek was more concerned about reaching the cap floor than acquiring the player. It aligns with his rebuild with wanting a short term. Even though we're lucky, I'll take getting a minute munching top-4D at that point.

I agree with mostly everyone about the Terry response. That incident is a culture shock b/c we've been reliant on having some kind of enforcer under Murray (Manson and Des) to a pack mentality with Verbeek. Murray put the onus on himself to protect his finesse players with an enforcer or two whereas Verbeek is putting the responsibility on everyone. Right now, it doesn't look great for Verbeek, but into the future he will have bigger guys on the ice where the pack mentality might have more bite. Strome, McTavish, Jones, and, to a lesser extent, Comtois adds that size and grit next season.

I thought Des provided more than just being a pugilist and would fit well with Verbeek's bigger and physical mentality. A 3rd round pick added another draft dart for Verbeek, apparently having more value than what Des brought.

Thank you for adding this. (the second part of this post isn't directed at you btw. No idea why it's formatting it like it is?)

It's not about having an "enforcer". It's about having someone who doesn't hesitate to retaliate if one of our stars gets taken advantage of (Terry clearly was IMO). Manson was not an enforcer, Getzlaf wasn't, etc. I don't see anyone on the roster other than Carrick who might be willing to do that. Maybe Jones?

I don't disagree about the enforcer role being outdated, but if the team is truly rebuilding, then who gives a f*** if we plug in a guy with the sole intention of protecting the kids?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Depends on a number of things. Does Comtois bounce back at all or was he a one hit wonder? Is Henrique trade bait or sticking around? Does Jones solidify himself on this roster? Is Grant getting extended or moved? Is Silfverberg a tradable asset, is he healthy, does he get bought out? Can Carrick do enough going forward to remain in the lineup?

We have a good amount of young and unproven guys as well as older vets on expiring deals. Possibilities are endless at this point. This is not a set roster by any means.

I think it’s fairly set for now…. Things might change weeks into the season, but I’m guessing pv is gunna give these guys a shot and see what needs to change during the season/next off season.

If Jones comtois vatrano and mctavish play physical style pro games… that grit aspect of the line up might not be as needed, at least up front.

Back end like I’ve agreed could use a guy like gudbranson/Manson/hakanpaa style. We don’t have to wait and see, that defense is train wreck in our own end waiting to happen

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

Guys like Zegras, Fowler, Terry, and Drysdale will never bring that toughness element - and they probably shouldn't even try.

Along with Milano, those were the exact players on the ice during the Terry incident.

Going through that part of the interview, Verbeek said "if you're gonna go into a scrum, you better be prepared to fight." He also said he talked to Terry about it afterwards and said he wasn't prepared to fight, just to stop it, but it didn't stop so "obviously he learned a lesson."

So to your point, it sounds like Verbeek agrees with you.

Here's where it gets weird for me though. He also says the other players (Milano, Zegras, Fowler, and Drysdale) could have done a couple things differently as well. What exactly could they have done differently? Should they all have mobbed Beagle? By the time everything got out of hand, all those guys were squared off with their own guy - holding each other back. After they realized what happened, Fowler and Zegras each went after Beagle, but at that point the linesmen had already got involved.

So I guess the moral of the story is - let your stars get pushed around if you don't want to be punched in the face.

FWIW, Verbeek says now they know how to protect themselves and how to protect each other. I don't know exactly what that's supposed to mean. Maybe they'll start turtling?

 

[Rybread86]

Which past champ? None of them really had fighters over the last 4 years.

Some have physicality/grit... but not as much as your suggesting.

Well Maroon played for 3 of the 5 past champs lol And it doesnt have to be a fighter. Dont get hung up on fists being needed to be physical or intimidating. Were not going back to 2010 where you had 70 fights a year on a team, no one expects that.

Who is our Marron, Wilson, Kadri, Manson, Savard, Goodrow? Not all fighters. Some were hitters. Some were pricks who threw opponents off their game. Gudas, Zadorov, Hackeysack, Risto, Clutterbuck, Tanev, Foligno. All of our hitters are gone. Past 3 years in the top 50... Des, Manson, Rowney, ZAR.

 

[Rybread86]

I think it’s fairly set for now…. Things might change weeks into the season, but I’m guessing pv is gunna give these guys a shot and see what needs to change during the season/next off season.

If Jones comtois vatrano and mctavish play physical style pro games… that grit aspect of the line up might not be as needed, at least up front.

Back end like I’ve agreed could use a guy like gudbranson/Manson/hakanpaa style. We don’t have to wait and see, that defense is train wreck in our own end waiting to happen

I see a big difference in saying "This is how we start the season" and "The roster is set". I think you are right int hat we probably start the year with what we have because we have to see how a number of things/players pan out, but I do not think this roster is set at all. Way too many questions up and down the lineup. Plenty of areas where you can trade for, promote, trade out different guys.

I count at least 7 big question marks as mentioned above. Thats 7 spots to insert a physcal/gritty/energy player depending on different situations.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Thank you for adding this.

It's not about having an "enforcer". It's about having someone who doesn't hesitate to retaliate if one of our stars gets taken advantage of (Terry clearly was IMO). Manson was not an enforcer, Getzlaf wasn't, etc. I don't see anyone on the roster other than Carrick who might be willing to do that. Maybe Jones?

I don't disagree about the enforcer role being outdated, but if the team is truly rebuilding, then who gives a f*** if we plug in a guy with the sole intention of protecting the kids?

This is a good point. I can't imagine any NHL enforcer you could name being less effective than Dominik Simon or Buddy Robinson. And they played a ton, so where's the line?

 

[Duck Off]

Des also mentioned wanting to be on a contender at this point of his career and it was reported he wanted to test free agency. If that's true and you're Verbeek, trading him is probably the right move.

Did he say that? The reports I saw about Des were that he was happy to be competing for the playoffs, but I don't remember him mentioning that he wasn't keen on signing with a non contender. I mean he signed with the Flyers?

The report about free agency I saw wasn't that he necessarily wanted to test it, but that Billy G was open with him about what they could spend due to their cap situation, and it wasn't close to what he wanted so he was going to test free agency. The difference in Minnesota and us is that we could afford to give him that contract he signed, they would have struggled.

 

[Duck Off]

This is a good point. I can't imagine any NHL enforcer you could name being less effective than Dominik Simon or Buddy Robinson. And they played a ton, so where's the line?

exactly. Someone wants to make the argument that an enforcer shouldn't be a permanent spot because of the roster spot it takes from a valuable player, great. However, if you're icing guys like Simon and Robinson who literally provide nothing, then the argument collapses on itself.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Along with Milano, those were the exact players on the ice during the Terry incident.

Going through that part of the interview, Verbeek said "if you're gonna go into a scrum, you better be prepared to fight." He also said he talked to Terry about it afterwards and said he wasn't prepared to fight, just to stop it, but it didn't stop so "obviously he learned a lesson."

So to your point, it sounds like Verbeek agrees with you.

Here's where it gets weird for me though. He also says the other players (Milano, Zegras, Fowler, and Drysdale) could have done a couple things differently as well. What exactly could they have done differently? Should they all have mobbed Beagle? By the time everything got out of hand, all those guys were squared off with their own guy - holding each other back. After they realized what happened, Fowler and Zegras each went after Beagle, but at that point the linesmen had already got involved.

So I guess the moral of the story is - let your stars get pushed around if you don't want to be punched in the face.

FWIW, Verbeek says now they know how to protect themselves and how to protect each other. I don't know exactly what that's supposed to mean. Maybe they'll start turtling?

THIS. I'm not sure what the guys on the ice in that moment could do differently. I'd have to re-watch the video, but like you stated I'm pretty sure they were all tied up with someone at the time. Not saying that I disagree with PV's mentality as a whole in terms of you HAVE to protect yourself. IIRC, Terry even said as much immediately after the event occurred. That stated, I still would like to add some toughness overall to the team.

 

[Firequacker]

I wonder if the team got too used to Des being the guy, and that actually contributed to him being moved. If Verbeek wants a wolfpack mentality but the team had settled into looking to Des, moving him out and saying "it's on the rest of you now" isn't what I'd call the best idea, but it makes sense in theory.

The Terry incident gets a little blown out of proportion IMO. Even Grant most likely would've prevented it (sure he's no enforcer, but also probably not the guy you want to find yourself punching in a scrum), and he probably should've been put back on that line given the temperature of the game at the time. Lack of team toughness is a problem for sure, but icing what might be the softest lineup you can possibly assemble, in a 5-0 game where your one fighter is in the box after getting jumped, is bad tactics as much as anything.

This is a good point. I can't imagine any NHL enforcer you could name being less effective than Dominik Simon or Buddy Robinson. And they played a ton, so where's the line?

Hey, Simon is decent at tracking the puck down and he did punch Nick Ritchie that one time, maybe we should just bring him back

 

[bsu]

Id say the defense is a bit on the soft/small side and i wouldnt mind grabbing a player there...... but i want nothing to do with enforcer type, or useless player that plays >5 mins a night for protection.

Marchament woulda been a solid addition to the line up, would have also been cool with Lucic w/ asset... neither of those panned out.

I dont think physicality/grit/fighting is as important in hockey... we have a number of players that can play gritty/physical.


I disagree.... where are you goign to stick this size or attitude?

we going to move terry cause hes too soft?

How did you come to that conclusion from anything being discussed? Like what?

 

[Rybread86]

Hey, Simon is decent at tracking the puck down and he did punch Nick Ritchie that one time, maybe we should just bring him back

He punched him for all of us. Freakin Bust

 

[12ozPapa]

The way I look at it, there isn’t a single intimidating player on this roster. Sad times.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The way I look at it, there isn’t a single intimidating player on this roster. Sad times.

We have one! But goalies really shouldn't get into a fight.