Prospect Info: 2022-23 Ducks Prospects

[Hockey Duckie]

I don't understand the incessant chatter denigrating Gaucher as a later 1st round pick. The average number of quality hockey players (top six forward, top four defenseman) out of a hockey draft is around 30. Some of those 30 will come from later rounds, so by definition some of the first round choices will not make it. In my opinion if you get a solid third line forward out of the second half of the first round of the draft you should be happy with that selection. A good number of players from the second half of that round bust, or end up as fourth liners. Indeed, even some players from the top half of the first round bust or are disappointments given their draft position.

Second, a solid third line player is an important contributor to a hockey team. I am still convinced that the Ducks would not have won the Cup in 2007 but for the contributions of their third line. I thought at the time that the Paulson line was the best third line in hockey, and could be matched against the other team's first line as necessary. Lundy seems to be viewed here as a positive, important contributor to the team when he is playing to his capacity as a third line center who can be moved up as need be. So why is he fine, whereas Gaucher, who may make the same sort of contribution not? They were both picked within the same range in the draft.

Third, there is a problem with the average size of the Duck players. They are too small and get pushed around. While I don't agree with the apparent extent of Dirk's dedication to large, mean, fighting players, the Ducks need some larger players, particularly larger forwards. Verbeek is moving the team in that direction based upon last year's draft. Gaucher fits into that need.

Fourth, it is always easy to pick the better player years after the draft. All draft choices are a gamble. Before you can evaluate the gamble you have to wait and see how the player develops. Back to one of my favorite phrases, "Patience, Grasshopper, Patience". So let's wait and see where Gaucher is is five years versus some of these other players.

Fifth, the Ducks have recently taken shots at scoring players in the second half of the first round. Right now Tracey and Perreault don't look as promising as they did when they were drafted. Sure, there were other choices available at the time (I will admit that I was not a fan of the Tracey choice, although I did like the Perreault choice), some of which will turn out much better than those choices, but some of which will not. I just assume that if the Ducks have perfect foresight that they would have chosen the players who will be better. But, the Ducks, like all teams, do not have perfect foresight. Indeed, overall, while the Duck drafting is not perfect, it seems to be above average for NHL teams.

If you read my reply post @Zegs2sendhelp , it's not praising nor denigrating Gaucher. It's a very clinical reply.

1. It is facetious to believe Verbeek drafted 3C Gaucher in 2022 because the team would be a bottom-3 team for 2023. I provided Verbeek's words to refute this idea.

2a. I present the difference in forward drafting style. Gaucher is the player Verbeek wanted. Translation: I'm sharing the difference in drafting forwards style: gamble vs safe pick.

2b. Gaucher is a safe prospect to make the NHL and the Ducks didn't take gamble pick until the 5th round. Translation: I am acknowledging Gaucher will make the NHL. We are still waiting on 2019 Tracey and 2020 Perrault to be NHL bound. Verbeek didn't take a big swing on a gamble until the 5th round in Hvidston.

I hope this can help you understand the differences in responses.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Third, there is a problem with the average size of the Duck players. They are too small and get pushed around. While I don't agree with the apparent extent of Dirk's dedication to large, mean, fighting players, the Ducks need some larger players, particularly larger forwards. Verbeek is moving the team in that direction based upon last year's draft. Gaucher fits into that need.

Before Verbeek took over, here are some big players drafted...

2021 Rd 1: C McTavish 6'0 and 213 lbs (he's shranked 2 inches... apparently)​

2021 Rd 3: LD Hinds 6'3 and 181 lbs​

2021 Rd 4: C Lopina 6'1 and 198 lbs​

​

2020 Rd 2: RW Colangelo 6'2 and 207 lbs​

2020 Rd 3: RD Moore 6'3 and 185 lbs​

2020 Rd 6: C Sundsvik 6'2 and 203 lbs​

​

2019 Rd 2: LD LaCombe 6'2 and 201 lbs​

2019 Rd 4: LD Thrun 6'2 and 190 lbs​

2019 Rd 6: RD Francis 6'5 and 207 lbs​

​

2018 Rd 1: C Lundestrom 6'0 and 192 lbs​

2018 Rd 2: C Groulx 6'2 and 198 lbs​

2018 Rd 6: RW Drew 6'2 and 214 lbs (converted from D; pugilist)​

​

2017 Rd 2: LW Comtois 6'2 and 214 lbs​

​

2016 Rd 1: LW Jones 6'3 and 220 lbs​

BTW, Verbeek traded away 6'2 Lindholm, 6'3 Manson, and 6'1 Deslauriers as well as lost 6'3 Getzlaf because of the reset to the rebuild.

We shouldn't continue this narrative that the Ducks don't draft big players under the previous regime, especially when the new GM got rid of the bulk of physicality at the TDL and led to Getzlaf's retirement.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Fourth, it is always easy to pick the better player years after the draft. All draft choices are a gamble. Before you can evaluate the gamble you have to wait and see how the player develops. Back to one of my favorite phrases, "Patience, Grasshopper, Patience". So let's wait and see where Gaucher is is five years versus some of these other players.

Fifth, the Ducks have recently taken shots at scoring players in the second half of the first round. Right now Tracey and Perreault don't look as promising as they did when they were drafted. Sure, there were other choices available at the time (I will admit that I was not a fan of the Tracey choice, although I did like the Perreault choice), some of which will turn out much better than those choices, but some of which will not. I just assume that if the Ducks have perfect foresight that they would have chosen the players who will be better. But, the Ducks, like all teams, do not have perfect foresight. Indeed, overall, while the Duck drafting is not perfect, it seems to be above average for NHL teams.

Your points 4 and 5 contradict each other:

Point 4: preach patience and wait 5 years for Gaucher
Point 5: gambles Tracey year 4 sucks and Perreault year 3 sucks

What's odd is that your Point 5 is the point I already made (gamble vs safe pick) and here you are reiterating it more elaborately. What's even more odd is that you wrote more than I did about it. LMAO.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I don't understand the incessant chatter denigrating Gaucher as a later 1st round pick. The average number of quality hockey players (top six forward, top four defenseman) out of a hockey draft is around 30. Some of those 30 will come from later rounds, so by definition some of the first round choices will not make it. In my opinion if you get a solid third line forward out of the second half of the first round of the draft you should be happy with that selection. A good number of players from the second half of that round bust, or end up as fourth liners. Indeed, even some players from the top half of the first round bust or are disappointments given their draft position.

Second, a solid third line player is an important contributor to a hockey team. I am still convinced that the Ducks would not have won the Cup in 2007 but for the contributions of their third line. I thought at the time that the Paulson line was the best third line in hockey, and could be matched against the other team's first line as necessary. Lundy seems to be viewed here as a positive, important contributor to the team when he is playing to his capacity as a third line center who can be moved up as need be. So why is he fine, whereas Gaucher, who may make the same sort of contribution not? They were both picked within the same range in the draft.

Gaucher is a safe pick to make the NHL. That's his write up before the draft and after the draft... as a 3C being his projected ceiling.

As for bottom-6 players, aside from Lundy, we have in our system C Groulx, C Lopina, RW Colangelo, and RW Drew. 2022 5th round LW Hvidston looks good this year too and he fights. I've shared many times the production of Gaucher mimics that of Groulx, both defensive guys who have some offense, but Gaucher will drop gloves in nothing flat like he did at the rookie tourney -which we all love after seeing Terry get beat down with no protection (Thanks, Verbeek!). Drew is a converted D to RW who gets into fights often. Our 2022 fifth round pick 6'2 LW Hvidston apparently throws down too, but is also scoring at a similar rate to Gaucher.

Anaheim is in dire need of top-6 talents because both LW Tracey and RW Perreault have hit a snag in their development. 2021 Rd 3 pick Pastujov looks like our best bet to be a top-6 winger... if his skating can keep up. Doing the prospect update lists often this past year, our top scorers are mostly defensemen, save Pastujov. That's pretty sad.

Should the Ducks win a top-4 pick in this year's draft, then Gaucher's safe pick becomes a moot discussion.

I get why Verbeek went with a safe approach for his first forward selection ever as a GM. Bank on the more known product to succeed. The fact the Ducks are vying for a bottom-3 finish this season is astronomically lucky for Verbeek to help solidify the Ducks' top-6. We need a top-6 forward just in case Tracey, Perreault, and/or Pastujov don't pan out.

 

[FlyingV09]

Before Verbeek took over, here are some big players drafted...

2021 Rd 1: C McTavish 6'0 and 213 lbs (he's shranked 2 inches... apparently)​

2021 Rd 3: LD Hinds 6'3 and 181 lbs​

2021 Rd 4: C Lopina 6'1 and 198 lbs​

​

2020 Rd 2: RW Colangelo 6'2 and 207 lbs​

2020 Rd 3: RD Moore 6'3 and 185 lbs​

2020 Rd 6: C Sundsvik 6'2 and 203 lbs​

​

2019 Rd 2: LD LaCombe 6'2 and 201 lbs​

2019 Rd 4: LD Thrun 6'2 and 190 lbs​

2019 Rd 6: RD Francis 6'5 and 207 lbs​

​

2018 Rd 1: C Lundestrom 6'0 and 192 lbs​

2018 Rd 2: C Groulx 6'2 and 198 lbs​

2018 Rd 6: RW Drew 6'2 and 214 lbs (converted from D; pugilist)​

​

2017 Rd 2: LW Comtois 6'2 and 214 lbs​

​

2016 Rd 1: LW Jones 6'3 and 220 lbs​

BTW, Verbeek traded away 6'2 Lindholm, 6'3 Manson, and 6'1 Deslauriers as well as lost 6'3 Getzlaf because of the reset to the rebuild.

We shouldn't continue this narrative that the Ducks don't draft big players under the previous regime, especially when the new GM got rid of the bulk of physicality at the TDL and led to Getzlaf's retirement.

Getzlaf would have retired regardless. His body was beat up(something he mentioned numerous times) and he was ready to be done. If he really wanted to keep playing and didn’t want a rebuild, he could have signed somewhere else.

 

[gilfaizon]

 

[ohcomeonref]

The Ducks stable of D-men prospects is nuts.

 

[All Mighty]

The Ducks stable of D-men prospects is nuts.

Yes, but we are severely lacking in prospects named Biakabutuka, so I think Verbeek needs to address that soon.

 

[Deuce22]

If you read my reply post @Zegs2sendhelp , it's not praising nor denigrating Gaucher. It's a very clinical reply.

1. It is facetious to believe Verbeek drafted 3C Gaucher in 2022 because the team would be a bottom-3 team for 2023. I provided Verbeek's words to refute this idea.

2a. I present the difference in forward drafting style. Gaucher is the player Verbeek wanted. Translation: I'm sharing the difference in drafting forwards style: gamble vs safe pick.

2b. Gaucher is a safe prospect to make the NHL and the Ducks didn't take gamble pick until the 5th round. Translation: I am acknowledging Gaucher will make the NHL. We are still waiting on 2019 Tracey and 2020 Perrault to be NHL bound. Verbeek didn't take a big swing on a gamble until the 5th round in Hvidston.

I hope this can help you understand the differences in responses.

I don't read it as gamble vs. safe pick. More like two way power forward vs. another skill guy. Terry, Z, McTavish, Drysdale, and Mintyukov bring the skill. What this team is going to need is someone to complement what they do. Gaucher seems to fit that job description. I think Warren was another pick with the same idea in mind.

 

[tomd]

I don't read it as gamble vs. safe pick. More like two way power forward vs. another skill guy. Terry, Z, McTavish, Drysdale, and Mintyukov bring the skill. What this team is going to need is someone to complement what they do. Gaucher seems to fit that job description. I think Warren was another pick with the same idea in mind.

It's a Max Jones redux pick. 3rd line upside and a big body but very limited offensive potential as a pro. That's fine if that is what you want from a 1st round pick but others (myself included) were hoping the Ducks would aim a bit higher.

 

[GunnarStahl]

Can we move on from the Gaucher debate, it’s been hashed out for the last month and a half. We get it, there are two distinct takes on him, let’s at least let him finish out his year, maybe even put some time in on the Gulls next year, then we can rehash this discussion. Literally everything that needs to be said has and we are just repeating talking points.

 

[GunnarStahl]

The Ducks stable of D-men prospects is nuts.

Legitimately the best D pool in the league the fact you could say each of the following have a decent shot at developing into a top 4 D shows just how nuts it is. Obviously not all of the will, but a few should.

Mintyukov
Zellweger
Luneau
Warren
Hinds
Thrun
Lacombe
Helleson

Helleson has not impressed since becoming Ducks property but I also feel he’s been given a rough ride with the Gulls so far. I think he still has a bit of runway left, especially considering he’s played a bit better as of late.

 

[tomd]

Legitimately the best D pool in the league the fact you could say each of the following have a decent shot at developing into a top 4 D shows just how nuts it is. Obviously not all of the will, but a few should.

Mintyukov
Zellweger
Luneau
Warren
Hinds
Thrun
Lacombe
Helleson

Helleson has not impressed since becoming Ducks property but I also feel he’s been given a rough ride with the Gulls so far. I think he still has a bit of runway left, especially considering he’s played a bit better as of late.

I think we've said all there is to be said about the depth of the D prospect pool as well. Maybe revisit after the season ends and they've spent some time in SD?

 

[bsu]

I remember when we had the best defensive prospect pool in the league... and the #1 overall prospect group.... Hopefully a couple more of these players pan out.

 

[Kalv]

I really like Moore. Similar to Hinds in a way - large dude (needs filling out more than Hinds tho), good pass, skates well, plays simple game. His ceiling might be 3rd pair but I think he can be solid. If we don't sign him this year, we risk to lose him next year, but for the next season our org could already be filled with a lot of young blueliners. Will be interesting how it unfolds. Certainly not a blue-chip prospect, but I really hope we can sign him and let him develop at his own pace.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Checking in with the Ducks of the Future: A Midseason Prospect Update | Anaheim Ducks

As the NHL calendar turns to the All-Star break, Ducks prospects across the world are nearing their ends of their collegiate, juniors or European professional league's seasons.AnaheimDucks.com checks in on some of those prospects below.

www.nhl.com

 

[All Mighty]

I really like Moore. Similar to Hinds in a way - large dude (needs filling out more than Hinds tho), good pass, skates well, plays simple game. His ceiling might be 3rd pair but I think he can be solid. If we don't sign him this year, we risk to lose him next year, but for the next season our org could already be filled with a lot of young blueliners. Will be interesting how it unfolds. Certainly not a blue-chip prospect, but I really hope we can sign him and let him develop at his own pace.

Moore is only a sophomore so I believe he can’t be a free agent for a 2 more years (summer of 2025).

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Moore is only a sophomore so I believe he can’t be a free agent for a 2 more years (summer of 2025).

Moore is a 2020 pick, giving the Ducks 4 years to sign him, the latest should be 2024. CapFriendly lists his latest date to be signed in the summer of 2025, probably due to Harvard cancelling a year out due to COVID. COVID didn't necessarily prevent Moore from playing hockey because he waited a year to join Harvard and went to the USHL instead for his D+1 season. That's why Moore is only a sophomore despite being in his D+3 season.

I don't know what to believe with the latest date to sign NCAA prospects anymore, though. LaCombe and Thrun are 2019 NCAA draftees, but, according to CapFriendly, LaCombe needs to be signed this summer and Thrun next summer. Minnesota hockey (LaCombe) didn't cancel during COVID season, but Harvard hockey (Thrun and Moore) did canel their COVID season being the reason for the difference.

 

[MMC]

Dostal named co-MVP (with Dustin Wolf) of the AHL All Star Game

 

[GunnarStahl]

I think we've said all there is to be said about the depth of the D prospect pool as well. Maybe revisit after the season ends and they've spent some time in SD?

I wasn’t singling you out man, lots of people have been in on the chats. I was in on them for the first week. It just feels like it’s been hashed out to me.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I remember when we had the best defensive prospect pool in the league... and the #1 overall prospect group.... Hopefully a couple more of these players pan out.

Lol we went from best d prospect league wide to fowler and the island of misfit toys.

At least the d pool looks good again, but man did we throw away a lot of good dmen

 

[Kalv]

Lol we went from best d prospect league wide to fowler and the island of misfit toys.

At least the d pool looks good again, but man did we throw away a lot of good dmen

Vatanen/Rico trade was the only that favored us

 

[Static]

Ian Moore finished tonight with a couple assists.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Vatanen/Rico trade was the only that favored us

We did include Sbisa in the Kesler trade. Does that count? Fowler and Lindholm kinda made Sbisa expendable.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

We did include Sbisa in the Kesler trade. Does that count? Fowler and Lindholm kinda made Sbisa expendable.

Sort of, Sbisa was originally acquired in trading Pronger to Philly.