Prospect Info: 2022-23 Ducks Prospects

[tomd]

Was it really a terrible pick on draft day though? You posted that chart from Hockey Prospecting comparing Gaucher and Stramel so you obviously put some credence to those charts, the same charts for Kulich and Snuggerud in their draft years are actually worse than Gauchers in his draft year in Kulich's case and only marginally better in Snuggeruds case.

Gaucher - D0 NHLe - 18 , Star 12% - NHLer Probability - 53%

Kulich - D0NHLe - 15, Star 6% - NHLer Probability 24%

Snuggerud - D0 NHLe - 28, Star 15% - NHLer Probability - 49%

In Hindsight Snuggerud and Kulich have proven themselves to be better but that wasn't so obvious on draft day, 5 other teams passed up on Kulich after we did and I know for a fact at least one other team wanted Gaucher badly in the 1st round, Montreal apparently tried their hardest to trade up from #26 to grab Gaucher but we nabbed him first and they still ended up passing up on Kulich and grabbed Mesar instead.

Fair enough on that basis. Just don't tell me it's a good pick today. It isn't.

 

[tomd]

Let's go back in time:

Here are Corey Pronman's rankings going into the 22 Draft:
Pronman:

12. Nathan Gaucher, C, Quebec (QMJHL)

Nov. 6, 2003 | 6′ 2.75″ | 207 pounds | Shoots right

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average

20. Jiri Kulich, C, Karlovy Vary (CZREP)

Apr. 14, 2004 | 5′ 11.5″ | 172 pounds | Shoots left

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Shot: Above NHL average

29. Jimmy Snuggerud, RW, Usa U-18 (NTDP)

Jun. 1, 2004 | 6′ 1.25″ | 186 pounds | Shoots right

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: NHL average
Shot: Above NHL average

And here is McKenzie's rankings. Quite a bit different.

Bob McKenzie's Final 2022 Draft Ranking - TSN.ca

It’s a photo finish for the No. 1 spot on TSN’s 2022 NHL Draft Final Ranking and, by the slimmest of margins, it’s Juraj Slafkovsky over Shane Wright.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Ducks]

The rankings were all over the place. The point is that there wasn't an obvious choice at the time, and that for the Ducks Gaucher probably was BPA. They might choose differently now, and they didn't pick the guy us armchair GMs on HF would have chosen, but to claim that the Ducks went off the board at the time to pick Gaucher just isn't true.

 

[goonsaredumb]

Fair enough on that basis. Just don't tell me it's a good pick today. It isn't.

I thought it was a terrible pick at the time, I don't now, he's done nothing but win me over in the year since basically the complete opposite of you lmao, It only looks like a bad pick with hindsight when compared to players that went after him, but you can do that with most picks, as far as the quality of player we got for the value of a late 1st round pick I think it was a good pick overall.

 

[tomd]

The rankings were all over the place. The point is that there wasn't an obvious choice at the time, and that for the Ducks Gaucher probably was BPA. They might choose differently now, and they didn't pick the guy us armchair GMs on HF would have chosen, but to claim that the Ducks went off the board at the time to pick Gaucher just isn't true.

I didn't say they went off the board. I said they picked for need. Like I said earlier, I was on the fence but hopeful after the pick. Others were far more upset than I was. My confidence in the pick was shattered by watching him play afterwards.

I thought it was a terrible pick at the time, I don't now, he's done nothing but win me over in the year since basically the complete opposite of you lmao, It only looks like a bad pick with hindsight when compared to players that went after him, but you can do that with most picks, as far as the quality of player we got for the value of a late 1st round pick I think it was a good pick overall.

If you've watched him play and still have that opinion then at least I can respect your opinion and just say we disagree. But I've watched him a lot and his skating and puck skills (especially his puck skills!!!!) are below NHL average. In the NHL his stick is where offense will go to die.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Regarding Gaucher, like the rest of us I really hope he pans out. Power forwards tend to take more time to develop, so we're probably still at least a few years out from seeing if he becomes a legit option at 3C. That said his rankings last year going into the draft were pretty good overall, I remember Pronman had him at #12 for example.

I think Gaucher was a safe pick like Lundestrom was at the time. Someone with a high floor, low ceiling. The last half of the 1st round is always difficult to draft, honestly I think once you get to pick 20 you're basically in the second round in terms of talent in a lot of drafts. So the Ducks went with a safe character guy who could compliment the rest of the young forward group.

In hindsight they might make a different pick now, but it's usually that way.

I don't think the org makes a different pick, tbh. This is the vision that Verbeek wants into the future, which is to be big, physical, or fast or a combination. Snuggerud and Kulich ranked higher than Gaucher with Central Scouting due to their offensive potential.

Verbeek believes he's got his two top-6 centers set in Zegras and McTavish going into the 2022 draft. He may not believe in Lundestrom as part of the core into the future. From a forward perspective, you being from the middle out and Gaucher fills out the top-9 centers of the future. Snuggerud is a RW and Kulich is smaller center.

Gaucher is a best fit selection than a best player available at the time of the draft. This happens all the time the further you are from the #1 pick. In the 2019 draft, we passed up winger Kaliyev for LW Tracey at 29th overall. Kaliyev has instant chemistry with Zegras, who we picked 9th overall in that same draft. In 2020, we course corrected and drafted BPA than best fit with Perreault at 27th overall. Perreault, like Kaliyev, dropped in the draft due to low motor drive on defense. Yet, both Tracey and Perreault were top-6 scorer swings for the old regime.

Going into this draft, Verbeek said he'll focus on forwards. This is a course correction to want to get more top-6 scoring forward types, especially since both Tracey and Perreault had a not so great season in San Diego this past year. Grabbing Fantilli helps, but we're still missing two more top-6 forwards.

 

[goonsaredumb]

If you've watched him play and still have that opinion then at least I can respect your opinion and just say we disagree. But I've watched him a lot and his skating and puck skills (especially his puck skills!!!!) are below NHL average. In the NHL his stick is where offense will go to die.

I have watched him a ton in the last year, he looked great at training camp and the preseason, he's looked great in both the regular season and playoffs with Quebec this year, and he looked great with Fantilli at the World Juniors the chemistry those two guys had was unreal.

His skating is nothing special but it's not terrible, his defensive play speaks for itself it's fantastic, his faceoff ability is also fantastic, his net-front presence is unbelievable, I think he's a great passer, his puckhandling is hit or miss, I've seen games where it looked like shit and other games where it looked great, overall I see a very promising prospect and I think he's only going to get better as he comes into the AHL and eventually the NHL, I don't think his offensive upside is great or anything but I also don't think it's nearly as nonexistent as you seem too, I think he has all the tools to succeed and I'm excited to watch his journey, maybe he never ends up being anything more than a bottom-6 shutdown forward but I think he's a safe bet to have a long career in the NHL and will be a great guy to have on our team going forward especially once we start making the playoffs again.

I'm fine with us disagreeing on this, I agree with you on a lot of other stuff on this site this is just one thing that we disagree on which is fine no one agrees on everything, I just think sometimes you are overly judgemental and harsh on him purely based on who got picked after him and less based on what he actually does.

 

[AngelDuck]

The pick just looks awful, there’s no way around it. I’m very optimistic about our dafting and prospect pool but I’m okay calling that one a miss

 

[Ducks]

The pick just looks awful, there’s no way around it. I’m very optimistic about our dafting and prospect pool but I’m okay calling that one a miss

I mean really though, how can any of us call it a miss when none of these players have even played an NHL game yet? Seems way too early to make that kind of judgment.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Let's go back in time:

Here are Corey Pronman's rankings going into the 22 Draft:
Pronman:

12. Nathan Gaucher, C, Quebec (QMJHL)

Nov. 6, 2003 | 6′ 2.75″ | 207 pounds | Shoots right

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average

20. Jiri Kulich, C, Karlovy Vary (CZREP)

Apr. 14, 2004 | 5′ 11.5″ | 172 pounds | Shoots left

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Shot: Above NHL average

29. Jimmy Snuggerud, RW, Usa U-18 (NTDP)

Jun. 1, 2004 | 6′ 1.25″ | 186 pounds | Shoots right

Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: NHL average
Shot: Above NHL average

I'll counter with Central Scouting's Final rankings for 2022:

NA skaters

11th. Snuggerud​

16th. Gaucher​

European skaters

13th. Kulich​

MyNHLdraft's 2022 mock draft:

16th. Snuggerud​

18th. Kulich​

31st. Gaucher​

Sportsnet 2022 mock draft:

15th. Snuggerud​

22nd. Gaucher​

30th. Kulich​

As for Pronman's final ranking of him at 13th, here's the descriptor:

I realize this looks like a way off consensus pick at 13, but I keep hearing Gaucher is more highly valued in team circles than his public perception might be due to his being a 6-3 two-way center who some teams believe has legit skill. I could buy the Islanders going Geekie or Mintyukov here instead though.​

Even Pronman didn't believe it, but was fed a lot of hype and part of that hype was believing he had legit skills. Most of the scouting I read on Gaucher said max ceiling was 3C. Lundy actually has 2nd winger ceiling in his scouting. I noticed in your shared quote that Snuggerud and Kulich has "above average NHL shot". I don't see any descriptor for Gaucher's shot, though.

 

[Ducks]

I figure it just got left out by error on Pronman's part since he had to do writeups for hundreds of prospects and edit them and move the order around. It might have just gotten removed on accident.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I wished we were more involved with our prospect D, many of which are going pro next year! We can project when each player could see their NHL debut, how many points they'll score in their respective leagues, or their impact on the defensive end.

Projected NHL

LD/RD LaCombe​

Projected AHL

RD Helleson​

LD/RD Zellweger​

LD/RD Hinds​

LD Mintyukov​

Non-pro

CHL​

RD Luneau (2nd season in Q)​

RD Warren (2nd season in Q)​

NCAA​

RD Moore (2023-24 is will be his junior season)​

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Fair enough on that basis. Just don't tell me it's a good pick today. It isn't.

Has anyone even called it a good pick in the history of these forums?

The pick just looks awful, there’s no way around it. I’m very optimistic about our dafting and prospect pool but I’m okay calling that one a miss

Our forward picks specially those at the end of round 1 early round 2 have been awful.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I hope it's not Stramel either but you know he is exactly the type of 4th line slug that PV covets.


People are saying that a team is lucky to get a NHL player in the late 1st round. The Bruins 2nd rounder this year is 60OA. How likely is it that the Ducks draft an NHL player with that pick? Next year the pick will probably be around 50 if the Ducks are lucky. The odds currently look very high that the Ducks will end up with basically nothing from the Lindholm trade.

Hasn’t pv only done 1 draft so far…. Idk if it’s safe to say we covet anything… our scouts in general have had a lot of misses on forwards in that late 1st early 2nd range.


I def don’t want stramel.

Hoping for strbak…. Could see us going gauthier if he goes into 2nd round. Wouldn’t mind if a guy like ziemer or musty fell to 33.

Even any of the Russian players that fall from round 1 would be interesting pick ups, but particularly

As for the 60… I’m hoping we use some of these 2nd and 3rds for next 2 years to move up at drafts or grab useful players that are cap dumps

 

[Ducks]

I'm hoping Strbak falls a bit further due to lack of offensive upside, because I'd love to get him with a late 2nd if he's still there. He could end up as a solid shutdown guy down the road.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'm hoping Strbak falls a bit further due to lack of offensive upside, because I'd love to get him with a late 2nd if he's still there. He could end up as a solid shutdown guy down the road.

I unfortunetly dont see him dropping far enough to get him with either of our late 2nds.

Prob have to take him at 33 if none of the forwards we want are there or find a way back into the early-mid 2nd.

 

[goonsaredumb]

Even any of the Russian players that fall from round 1 would be interesting pick ups, but particularly

You forgot to finish your sentence, I'm assuming you meant either Gulyayev or But, I love both those players, I can't see us grabbing Gulyayev with our abundance of smaller offensively minded defensemen but But seems like someone we would realistically pick if he's still available at 33, dude can skate really well for such a monster of a man and his offensive abilities are very good, he's got some stuff he could work on but I think he'd be a steal at 33 and there's a good chance he'll be available

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You forgot to finish your sentence, I'm assuming you meant either Gulyayev or But, I love both those players, I can't see us grabbing Gulyayev with our abundance of smaller offensively minded defensemen but But seems like someone we would realistically pick if he's still available at 33, dude can skate really well for such a monster of a man and his offensive abilities are very good, he's got some stuff he could work on but I think he'd be a steal at 33 and there's a good chance he'll be available

Oh ya lol was specifically looking at But, but Gulyayev is intriguing(agree with your assesment tho), would also add Simashev to those 2.

Id love to leave the draft with 1 of Simashev or Strbak.... i like our d prospects... but we could use some more defensive/physical types outside of Helleson Hinds Warren

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I mean really though, how can any of us call it a miss when none of these players have even played an NHL game yet? Seems way too early to make that kind of judgment.

Also people posting wildly different expert opinions on where Gaucher could be picked is not the "there was an obvious pick" mic drop that's being suggested regardless of whether he ever plays a game.

 

[tomd]

Gaucher is playing now FYI.

On a positive note I'll just say that I am rooting for Gaucher to succeed and justify his draft position. He seriously needs to focus on his offensive skills if he is going to make it at the NHL level as an impact player. My marker for success is a 40-45 point physical defensively responsible impact center. I don't see that right now in his future but I'm pulling for him to develop into that in a reasonably quick timeframe.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

How do we know Gaucher wasn't more of Madden pick than PV ? Madden loves to draft fellow Quebec guys and Madden isn't exactly as good with Forwards as he is with Dmen.

 

[ScarTroy]

On a positive note I'll just say that I am rooting for Gaucher to succeed and justify his draft position. He seriously needs to focus on his offensive skills if he is going to make it at the NHL level as an impact player. My marker for success is a 40-45 point physical defensively responsible impact center. I don't see that right now in his future but I'm pulling for him to develop into that in a reasonably quick timeframe.

Vermette was easily one of the better 3C’s in the league and he only hit 45 points a handful of times in his career. If that’s your bar for a 3C you’ll probably be disappointed with whoever we choose that’s projected for that role. Bonino, Hanzal, Lowry, I could go on. You don’t have to score 45 points a season to be an effective 3C.

 

[tomd]

Vermette was easily one of the better 3C’s in the league and he only hit 45 points a handful of times in his career. If that’s your bar for a 3C you’ll probably be disappointed with whoever we choose that’s projected for that role. Bonino, Hanzal, Lowry, I could go on. You don’t have to score 45 points a season to be an effective 3C.

To justify his draft position was a key component of my statement.

Vermette was a 2nd round pick
Bonino was a 6th round pick
Hanzal was a 1st round pick (and had much better offensive skills in junior)
Lowry was a 3rd round pick

You can find a physical defensive center who can't score in any round (based on your own list). Finding one in the first round is not getting good value for that pick.

 

[ScarTroy]

To justify his draft position was a key component of my statement.

Vermette was a 2nd round pick
Bonino was a 6th round pick
Hanzal was a 1st round pick (and had much better offensive skills in junior)
Lowry was a 3rd round pick

You can find a physical defensive center who can't score in any round (based on your own list). Finding one in the first round is not getting good value for that pick.

So by your logic, we should only be using our 3rd round picks or later for 3C’s? How often does that work out? If they think they can get that type of player at 22, and he’s not clearly a reach I really don’t see an issue with that. I’m just pointing out an unrealistic expectation for the position we picked him to eventually fit into our lineup. Regardless where those other guys were picked, they were solid 3C’s that rarely, or never hit the imaginary baseline you set for him for it to not be a wasted pick in your eyes.

 

[Gliff]

THW has Gaucher very high in their top 100 prospects rankings. Just goes to show how differently people value the 3rd line center role.

The NHL's Top 100 Prospects - Midseason Update - The Hockey Writers Editor's Choice Latest News, Analysis & More

Every team has articles ranking their top prospects. But how do they all compare together? This list takes a look at the top-100 prospects.

thehockeywriters.com

That’s insane. There are like 40 guys below him I would 100% trade 1 for 1. And I’m not even a hater.