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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

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henchman24 said:
Makar actually did reset the environment as a RFA. He could have pushed for more and gotten it… this was the compromise on the 6 years. He got half mil more than Miro with 2 less years. Then Fox’s deal was based right on Makar’s.
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Yeah and that's my point. Neither of those two compared to what Makar had done. Fox had a comparable 2nd season where he won the Norris but didn't make the playoffs so had nothing to go off. Makar put up much better numbers the 1st season was close to PPG in like 25 playoff games. Outside of that playoff run by Miro Makar's numbers were on another level.

Makar could have went after every cent and changed the landscape alot more than he did.
 
AvsWraith said:
It's a good thing he wasn't due for a new contract this summer after what he did this season. He legit might be the best player in the NHL. He and McDavid are at least 1A and 1B, no homer either. Think about how many defensemen win the Con Smythe... That contract is now the biggest steal in the league.
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I still think McDavid's better but I think Makar has as good of an argument for number 2 in the league as anybody. I think that was pretty clear that's what his potential was after his rookie season into his 2nd year.

I think he could have got an absolutely ridiculous deal if he really went after it.
 
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ANewHope said:
Yeah and that's my point. Neither of those two compared to what Makar had done. Fox had a comparable 2nd season where he won the Norris but didn't make the playoffs so had nothing to go off. Makar put up much better numbers the 1st season was close to PPG in like 25 playoff games. Outside of that playoff run by Miro Makar's numbers were on another level.

Makar could have went after every cent and changed the landscape alot more than he did.
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Fox with the Norris over Makar kinda set the bar he’s get more. It is really the term though… reading between the lines on the statements around the deal, Makar wanted more if the term was longer, but the term at 6 years (and only buying 1 UFA year) lead to him taking less. If Makar stuck to 8 years he’d be over 10 easily. Avs couldn’t fit that easily so they cut a deal. Makar easily could have forced their hand, gladly he didn’t as he will bring a tremendous value over the course of the deal.
 
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Makar is right up there with Matthews; the team was only able to buy one UFA year after his ELC. This is as close as it gets to walking him straight to UFA. This doesn't happen often at all for young stars and it's bad for teams.

AAV is nice and people seem to only focus on that but more years under team control is very important and the Avs didn't manage to get them. That was a heavy price paid for that lower AAV (but it was worth it because cup).

Also Makar burned an ELC year so on his 3rd season he made 9M instead of ELC money. That counts.
 
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henchman24 said:
Fox with the Norris over Makar kinda set the bar he’s get more. It is really the term though… reading between the lines on the statements around the deal, Makar wanted more if the term was longer, but the term at 6 years (and only buying 1 UFA year) lead to him taking less. If Makar stuck to 8 years he’d be over 10 easily. Avs couldn’t fit that easily so they cut a deal. Makar easily could have forced their hand, gladly he didn’t as he will bring a tremendous value over the course of the deal.
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Fox had 42 points 70 games as a rookie. Makar had 50 in 57 than followed it up with 15 points in 15 playoff games. 2nd years were absolutely comparable but I'd argue Makar's agent is absolutely using his health as a reason for that. Makar finished 9th in Norris voting as a rookie and 2nd the following year and his health obviously played a role in that.

Just going off pure numbers/potential I think Makar could have bent the Avs over if he was greedy. His contract is and was always going to be a "steal". Especially as more RFA's stop taking bridge deals and push for money sooner.

Balthazar said:
Makar is right up there with Matthews; the team was only able to buy one UFA year after his ELC. This is as close as it gets to walking him straight to UFA. This doesn't happen often at all for young stars and it's bad for teams.

AAV is nice and people seem to only focus on that but more years under team control is very important and the Avs didn't manage to get them. That was a heavy price paid for that lower AAV (but it was worth it because cup).

Also Makar burned an ELC year so on his 3rd season he made 9M instead of ELC money. That counts.
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And if we went after 8 years the AVV would probably have been ridiculous because we wouldn't have got the same discount and we'd be screwed right now because he's be making 2ish more mill a year.

IMO there's really no way to spin the Makar deal as being anything other than a steal and him doing the team a solid. RFA, less years etc. He didn't play hardball and he absolutely could of.
 
ANewHope said:
Fox had 42 points 70 games as a rookie. Had 50 in 57 than followed it up with 15 points in 15 playoff games. 2nd years were absolutely comparable but I'd argue Makar's agent is absolutely using his health as a reason for that. Makar finished 9th in Norris voting as a rookie and 2nd the following year and his health obviously played a role in that.

Just going off pure numbers/potential I think Makar could have bent the Avs over if he was greedy. His contract is and was always going to be a "steal". Especially as more RFA's stop taking bridge deals and push for money sooner.
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The Norris mattered though too. They were comparable too... they got pretty similar deals. Fox got more AAV and an extra year. Makar can hit the open market earlier.

He could have. The willingness of the parties to work around term and AAV really allowed a win-win for both. Avs got a lower AAV that worked for them and Makar can cash in on UFA money sooner (his next deal will be absurd). Even with the discount... Makar is still the 9th highest paid defensemen. Only a few ahead of him signed as RFAs and all of them bought more UFA years. I think the deal was an excellent compromise by all parties given the situation.
 
ANewHope said:
I still think McDavid's better but I think Makar has as good of an argument for number 2 in the league as anybody. I think that was pretty clear that's what his potential was after his rookie season into his 2nd year.

I think he could have got an absolutely ridiculous deal if he really went after it.
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Funny enough when you also factor in defenseive ability and the value of pure goal scoring... Matthews is actually the most valuable player in the league.


A guy who can score 65 Goals, 110 points, and is responsible defensively is more valuable then the 40 Goal 120 point guy who's a liability defensively.


Be interesting to see those two next year.
 
Pierce Hawthorne said:
Funny enough when you also factor in defenseive ability and the value of pure goal scoring... Matthews is actually the most valuable player in the league.


A guy who can score 65 Goals, 110 points, and is responsible defensively is more valuable then the 40 Goal 120 point guy who's a liability defensively.


Be interesting to see those two next year.
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For me the only thing that's hurting Matthews is the playoffs. He's had like 6 playoffs runs and hasn't went off. He's been nowhere near as bad in the playoffs as some let on and I think it gets undersold how difficult it is to be the guy come playoff time but Matthews just hasn't had that signature run come playoff for me to place him as the 2nd best player in the league.

I've been a massive Makar fan for awhile but I do think it'll be interesting to see how he follows this year up. He's basically been flawless in the NHL. I think what separates McDavid is just the consistency in which he dominates. Right now I'd personally have Makar as #2 in the league but can see the argument for others. If he can repeat his regular season this year than I'd say he's pretty comfortably in a tier of his own with McDavid until Matthews can figure out the playoffs.
 
henchman24 said:
The Norris mattered though too. They were comparable too... they got pretty similar deals. Fox got more AAV and an extra year. Makar can hit the open market earlier.

He could have. The willingness of the parties to work around term and AAV really allowed a win-win for both. Avs got a lower AAV that worked for them and Makar can cash in on UFA money sooner (his next deal will be absurd). Even with the discount... Makar is still the 9th highest paid defensemen. Only a few ahead of him signed as RFAs and all of them bought more UFA years. I think the deal was an excellent compromise by all parties given the situation.
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I agree the Norris mattered for Fox but I don't think it hurt Makar in negotiations. It was pretty obvious IMO that had he not missed games he would have won it. I actually think it helped him this year vs Josi. The Rangers didn't even make the playoffs. If Makar plays those 10 games or whatever it was and puts up 4-5 points it's his to lose.

Outside of that I just don't think they were comparable. I think Makar's agent would have lots of leverage if you went down that path. Makar had two elite seasons, Fox had 1. Fox hadn't played in the playoffs while Makar thrived.

Just in terms of numbers and what they showed on the ice I legitimately believe Makar's more comparable to Matthews. Different positions. C is more valuable. I just think Makar was a special player and his agent could have sold that and went after a massive payday. Makar being the 9th highest paid d-men is laughable given he's more or less been elite/one of the best at his position from the second he stepped onto the ice.
 
Balthazar said:
Makar is right up there with Matthews; the team was only able to buy one UFA year after his ELC. This is as close as it gets to walking him straight to UFA. This doesn't happen often at all for young stars and it's bad for teams.

AAV is nice and people seem to only focus on that but more years under team control is very important and the Avs didn't manage to get them. That was a heavy price paid for that lower AAV (but it was worth it because cup).

Also Makar burned an ELC year so on his 3rd season he made 9M instead of ELC money. That counts.
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6 years is only two years short of max term.

Makar at $9M for five more years is insane value. The Athletic called it the best contract in hockey. The Avs did very well.
 
ANewHope said:
I agree the Norris mattered for Fox but I don't think it hurt Makar in negotiations. It was pretty obvious IMO that had he not missed games he would have won it. I actually think it helped him this year vs Josi. The Rangers didn't even make the playoffs. If Makar plays those 10 games or whatever it was and puts up 4-5 points it's his to lose.

Outside of that I just don't think they were comparable. I think Makar's agent would have lots of leverage if you went down that path. Makar had two elite seasons, Fox had 1. Fox hadn't played in the playoffs while Makar thrived.

Just in terms of numbers and what they showed on the ice I legitimately believe Makar's more comparable to Matthews. Different positions. C is more valuable. I just think Makar was a special player and his agent could have sold that and went after a massive payday. Makar being the 9th highest paid d-men is laughable given he's more or less been elite/one of the best at his position from the second he stepped onto the ice.
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You have to look at how many of those deals were signed after Makar too… he may be 9th now. When he signed I think he was 4th or 5th and the highest RFA in the group. I agree on the Matthews sort of impact, but defensemen just don’t get paid as much. Makar did well and the Avs did well. Makar reset the market, and the market reacted after.

Edit: Makar was 4th after Karlsson, Doughty and Josi. 59k behind Josi because superstitions.
 
henchman24 said:
You have to look at how many of those deals were signed after Makar too… he may be 9th now. When he signed I think he was 4th or 5th and the highest RFA in the group. I agree on the Matthews sort of impact, but defensemen just don’t get paid as much. Makar did well and the Avs did well. Makar reset the market, and the market reacted after.

Edit: Makar was 4th after Karlsson, Doughty and Josi. 59k behind Josi because superstitions.
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I mostly agree with that outside of "defensemen" don't get that paid that much. I think that's my point. Makar was entirely different. He wasn't a normal defensemen. Even Fox who won a Norris couldn't match his first year or playoff career. Outside of Fox's Norris .. nobody was in the same tier. He could have forced himself into getting 1C money like a Matthews. If he really wanted too and that's what his agent was after I don't think Colorado would have been able to do much.

I think Makar as a RFA was in that bracket of being very unique given how good he was early on. Not exactly the same but like a McDavid/Matthews. Getting 6 years at 9 mill was a pretty big steal IMO.
 
ANewHope said:
I mostly agree with that outside of "defensemen" don't get that paid that much. I think that's my point. Makar was entirely different. He wasn't a normal defensemen. Even Fox who won a Norris couldn't match his first year or playoff career. Outside of Fox's Norris .. nobody was in the same tier. He could have forced himself into getting 1C money like a Matthews. If he really wanted too and that's what his agent was after I don't think Colorado would have been able to do much.

I think Makar as a RFA was in that bracket of being very unique given how good he was early on. Not exactly the same but like a McDavid/Matthews. Getting 6 years at 9 mill was a pretty big steal IMO.
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Being unique doesn’t really matter at all with RFA deals though. Comparables matter there. ROR even tried the unique label and all it really didn’t is force weird short term deals until he could get 1C money a year away from UFA.

Even the best defensemen though… the best of the last generation (Doughty and Karlsson) still don’t get the top amounts of the best forwards. Goalies are the same. System isn’t fair, but how the NHL does it.

Makar could have forced more… any player can if they push hard enough. I’m not saying Makar’s deal isn’t fantastic for the Avs, because it is. Just saying it was a fair negotiation that’ll be a win-win for both. Makar reset the market and got paid… only gave up one UFA year. Avs got the best defensemen in the league locked up for 6 years at a good cap.
 
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