Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[Richard88]

What on Earth does Valeri Nichushkin have to do with Sam Girard and Sam Bennett?

I simply applied your logic to another player to illustrate how flawed the logic was.

 

[Bender]

Part of the problem is that Girard has been offered in so many Avs proposals by Avs fans recently, the collective board has devalued him in how they perceive him.

He would help Florida a lot. But a lot of the board sees him as an undersized player who struggled when targeted by Vegas and was non-integral when the Avs won the cup. The other obstacle with the collective board is that they make the assumption all smallish puck movers are the same.

Girard is a tough sell on the main board, especially.

Is the end goal to try and get another fanbase on a website to accept this hypothetical trade as a good one?

Or is this a discussion about a potential avenue towards making the Avs a better team??

Because whatever notion or idea that a 'group of fans' has about a player on a discussion board has absolutely no bearing on what an NHL GM is going to do in real life and my f***ing god, nor should it!!!!!

 

[Bender]

What on Earth does Valeri Nichushkin have to do with Sam Girard and Sam Bennett?

If you're seriously asking THAT question then those muscles in your avatar are cutting off the circulation to your brain.

You illustrated a point about a player being in a bad spot for the first 4-5 years of his career and then exploding after a trade for the next 1.5 years but suggesting that he would do poorly on the Avs because we should be looking at his years in Calgary but not those in Florida.

@Richard88 stuck it back in your face with the Nuke example - which is fantastic because it's the same story and you're pretending not to understand. (Or not.. but IF you're not pretending then I'm going to assume that you wear a helmet from sun-up to sun-down, you know, just in case)

 

[chet1926]

This aged very well...

How was I wrong?

Kadri signed at far less than his rumored 9M+ want. So teams were clearly not biting at that initial price point.

There were rumors Colorado was willing to do short term. So I'd assume that means 1-2 years was a possibility on the table. And would have been a massive fail by Kadri's team had he signed something like that.

And Calgary made everything happen in a matter of 2-3 days. This is per Kadri himself. So the narrative of a team trying to make a move for 6+ weeks was total BS. Because clearly NYI wasn't that interested or they could have made something happen fairly quickly like Calgary did. Clearly moving money isn't as hard as the narrative was as Calgary figured it fairly quickly. Plus Colorado said that weren't willing to move someone like Girard. So it sounds like we weren't even trying to move money.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Is the end goal to try and get another fanbase on a website to accept this hypothetical trade as a good one?

Or is this a discussion about a potential avenue towards making the Avs a better team??

Because whatever notion or idea that a 'group of fans' has about a player on a discussion board has absolutely no bearing on what an NHL GM is going to do in real life and my f***ing god, nor should it!!!!!

None of that was being suggested. The opposite, in fact.

 

[Avs_19]

If the 2C solution right now is Sam Bennett and it's going to cost Girard then just go into the season with JTC as 2C and get someone at the TDL for a fraction of the cost of Girard.

 

[Bender]

None of that was being suggested. The opposite, in fact.

You said "Girard is a tough sell on the main board, especially." - how does that have any effect on what the Avs should do or how they should proceed? Who the f*** cares what fans of other teams think or how they view players they see play probably twice a year or in some cases less than that?

Please explain how the 'opposite' was being suggested...

 

[John Mandalorian]

You said "Girard is a tough sell on the main board, especially." - how does that have any effect on what the Avs should do or how they should proceed? Who the f*** cares what fans of other teams think or how they view players they see play probably twice a year or in some cases less than that?

Please explain how the 'opposite' was being suggested...

I was pointing out the various reasons the board undervalues Girard. That's also implicitly suggesting that their perception doesn't align with reality. Zito isn't likely influenced by the echo chamber that exists on HF.

The absurdity of some of the reactions is the the Avs just presented a template for how Tampa can be beat. Having D like Girard is part of that template. You'd think a GM in the same division as Tampa might value that more than a few guys on a message board who are petty enough to draw a line in the sand on every trade no matter how much it might help their team.

Having said that, it's probably fair to say that having Girard bulk up was probably reactionary and a mistake. It's also fair to say that Byram may not be out of the woods with his concussions and so a case can be made for keeping Girard.

Another caveat is that if the Avs are trading Girard for a 2C, doesn't that make Newhook a wing and, therefore expendable as an add with Girard for a better 2C?

 

[willy702]

If the 2C solution right now is Sam Bennett and it's going to cost Girard then just go into the season with JTC as 2C and get someone at the TDL for a fraction of the cost of Girard.

No kidding, its rather ridiculous to think they would do this. Might cause this forum to implode but Avs are pretty much just going to roll with what they have and let some younger players develop. Whatever isn't coming along well at TDL will be addressed then.

 

[John Mandalorian]

No kidding, its rather ridiculous to think they would do this. Might cause this forum to implode but Avs are pretty much just going to roll with what they have and let some younger players develop. Whatever isn't coming along well at TDL will be addressed then.

Whoever the Avs trade for now, might not be healthy at the TDL. Conversely, whoever the Avs trade for at the TDL willy be healthy (or healthy enough).

As long as the Avs can make to the tdl being ok shape in the standings, they can avoid a decent amount of injury risk with their acquisition(s).

 

[Richard88]

If the 2C solution right now is Sam Bennett and it's going to cost Girard then just go into the season with JTC as 2C and get someone at the TDL for a fraction of the cost of Girard.

Not that I disagree with you, but a 2C at the deadline won't be cheap either, and you probably won't get someone with term and thus possibly have to make another trade for a 2C next off-season with that approach unless the rental is willing to stay.

 

[Avs_19]

Not that I disagree with you, but a 2C at the deadline won't be cheap either, and you probably won't get someone with term and thus possibly have to make another trade for a 2C next off-season with that approach unless the rental is willing to stay.

Two recent examples of decent prices were Copp and Paul. Both rentals and by no means great players but the Avs would be the favourites to repeat with that type of player as their 2C.

 

[willy702]

Two recent examples of decent prices were Copp and Paul. Both rentals and by no means great players but the Avs would be the favourites to repeat with that type of player as their 2C.

They are pretty big favorites to repeat right now with whoever they have in the 2C spot...

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I’d be fine with a Girard/Bennett swap. Girard is probably more valuable in a straight across trade, but maybe Florida adds a little to help off-set that.

You have to think about where the two players would be playing in the lineup too. Girard is probably headed towards a bottom pairing role on Colorado and Bennett would be a second line centre.

As Girard’s role gets reduced, his contract doesn’t look as good and Bennett is locked up at a solid AAV for 3 more seasons. Both contracts were given a B- by the Athletic.

Honestly, it probably wouldn’t be the ideal move, but I’d be fine with it.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I’d be fine with a Girard/Bennett swap. Girard is probably more valuable in a straight across trade, but maybe Florida adds a little to help off-set that.

You have to think about where the two players would be playing in the lineup too. Girard is probably headed towards a bottom pairing role on Colorado and Bennett would be a second line centre.

As Girard’s role gets reduced, his contract doesn’t look as good and Bennett is locked up at a solid AAV for 3 more seasons. Both contracts were given a B- by the Athletic.

Honestly, it probably wouldn’t be the ideal move, but I’d be fine with it.

And Bennett is headed to 3C with the emergence of Lundell. This was a big part of the impetus for the proposal/suggestion.

 

[JH21]

I was pointing out the various reasons the board undervalues Girard. That's also implicitly suggesting that their perception doesn't align with reality. Zito isn't likely influenced by the echo chamber that exists on HF.

The absurdity of some of the reactions is the the Avs just presented a template for how Tampa can be beat. Having D like Girard is part of that template. You'd think a GM in the same division as Tampa might value that more than a few guys on a message board who are petty enough to draw a line in the sand on every trade no matter how much it might help their team.

Having said that, it's probably fair to say that having Girard bulk up was probably reactionary and a mistake. It's also fair to say that Byram may not be out of the woods with his concussions and so a case can be made for keeping Girard.

Another caveat is that if the Avs are trading Girard for a 2C, doesn't that make Newhook a wing and, therefore expendable as an add with Girard for a better 2C?

A few things:

1- We just won the Cup without Girard and Jack Johnson in his place

2- We aren't getting some stud 2C for Girard. It just won't happen

3- His 5m cap hit is a waste on the bottom pair. If we are keeping him around incase Byram or EJ misses time again then fine. But paying him that contract, playing him 13-15 minutes a night on the bottom pair and having a huge hole at 2C is a complete waste of assets.

 

[EdAVSfan]

A few things:

1- We just won the Cup without Girard and Jack Johnson in his place

2- We aren't getting some stud 2C for Girard. It just won't happen

3- His 5m cap hit is a waste on the bottom pair. If we are keeping him around incase Byram or EJ misses time again then fine. But paying him that contract, playing him 13-15 minutes a night on the bottom pair and having a huge hole at 2C is a complete waste of assets.

I will bet you absolutely anything that Girard will average over 15 minutes a game, let alone 13-15.

 

[John Mandalorian]

A few things:

1- We just won the Cup without Girard and Jack Johnson in his place

2- We aren't getting some stud 2C for Girard. It just won't happen

3- His 5m cap hit is a waste on the bottom pair. If we are keeping him around incase Byram or EJ misses time again then fine. But paying him that contract, playing him 13-15 minutes a night on the bottom pair and having a huge hole at 2C is a complete waste of assets.

Who has said otherwise? You're arguing with yourself here.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard will play more minutes then Byram. Just wait and see.

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
Byram - EJ

Will be the pairing and minute distribution. Manson was brought here in the first place as a partner for Girard. And the two were very good together in the playoffs until Girard's freak injury.

I'd bet you see Toews/Makar 5 on 5 minutes reigned in quite a bit this year. Overall I'm guessing you see Toews/Makar around 22-23 minutes a night, Girard/Manson around 20 Minutes, Byram/EJ at 17-18.

Makar on PP1, Girard and Byram on PP2. Toews/Manson the #1 PK unit, EJ and Makar the #2 PK unit. Maybe Byram gets in here during the season at times to further limit Makar's minutes.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Girard will play more minutes then Byram. Just wait and see.

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
Byram - EJ

Will be the pairing and minute distribution. Manson was brought here in the first place as a partner for Girard. And the two were very good together in the playoffs until Girard's freak injury.

I'd bet you see Toews/Makar 5 on 5 minutes reigned in quite a bit this year. Overall I'm guessing you see Toews/Makar around 22-23 minutes a night, Girard/Manson around 20 Minutes, Byram/EJ at 17-18.

Makar on PP1, Girard and Byram on PP2. Toews/Manson the #1 PK unit, EJ and Makar the #2 PK unit. Maybe Byram gets in here during the season at times to further limit Makar's minutes.

I don’t think there’s any chance Makar is down at 22/23. Toews maybe to 23, but I doubt it honestly. Ultimately Bednar is going to be in a lot of one-goal games because that’s just the way the NHL is and he’s going to throw his thoroughbreds over the boards.

My guess is that Girard and Byram swap minutes from last season. Byram up to around 21 and Girard down to around 18/19.

EJ and Manson probably see the lowest minutes next year.

 

[Balthazar]

I think Toews stays on PP2

 

[JH21]

Girard will play more minutes then Byram. Just wait and see.

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
Byram - EJ

Will be the pairing and minute distribution. Manson was brought here in the first place as a partner for Girard. And the two were very good together in the playoffs until Girard's freak injury.

I'd bet you see Toews/Makar 5 on 5 minutes reigned in quite a bit this year. Overall I'm guessing you see Toews/Makar around 22-23 minutes a night, Girard/Manson around 20 Minutes, Byram/EJ at 17-18.

Makar on PP1, Girard and Byram on PP2. Toews/Manson the #1 PK unit, EJ and Makar the #2 PK unit. Maybe Byram gets in here during the season at times to further limit Makar's minutes.

I will take that wager of G playing more than Byram.

 

[Balthazar]

I will take that wager of G playing more than Byram.

He will. At least at 5v5. G-Manson is our 2nd pairing. Byram is 3rd pair.

 

[Avaholic29]

He will. At least at 5v5. G-Manson is our 2nd pairing. Byram is 3rd pair.

Byram will play more, as he should. he’s the better player. The finals was his coming out party and he’s only going to get better.

 

[jaisen73]

Girard is the Byram insurance policy, IMO. Byram came back looking pretty good and got even better as the playoffs rolled on. But the injury history is still a cause for concern. If he doesn't miss any significant time between the start of the season and the deadline then Girard becomes expendable via trade or next summer. But as it stands now it's a case of Girard being worth the 5 million if he's in a top 4 role and not if he's in the bottom pairing. But as others have noted, this is a nice problem to have. On the vast majority of other NHL teams Samuel Girard slots into the Top 4 and its not even close.