Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[FreudsLeatherJacket]

Fine.

Let's do it this way: Crosby signed his last contract at 14.5% cap hit. Today that'd translate to 11.96M. If Mack wants more than that he wants a bigger piece of the pie than Crosby.

That's not much of a difference, and the cap likely goes up even more when Mack's new contract kicks in.

How about this? When Malkin signed his first contract extension, his cap hit was 15.3% of the cap. When Ovechkin signed his big extension, his cap hit was 16.8% of the cap. Even if Mac signs for $13 million it wouldn't be unprecedented.

 

[The Abusement Park]

What dead cap years? He only has 3 years left and he's still a high end 1C.

Also he was seen as generational at the signing and Mack isn't.

People just need to stop trying to justify Mack getting 12M+.

I mean he's making 3mil this season basically 1/3 of what he was every other year which is now no longer allowed. We can want Mack to take a nice deal but he doesn't want to. Not much we can do about it. He's earned the right to ask for this much.

 

[Balthazar]

That's not much of a difference, and the cap likely goes up even more when Mack's new contract kicks in.

How about this? When Malkin signed his first contract extension, his cap hit was 15.3% of the cap. When Ovechkin signed his big extension, his cap hit was 16.8% of the cap. Even if Mac signs for $13 million it wouldn't be unprecedented.

1) Mackinnon shouldn't make the same money (% wise) as Crosby or Ovi. Maybe Makar should. Maybe.

2) The point of this conversation isn't to know if it's "unprecendented" or not, it is "should it be done if you want to keep the team competitive".

 

[The Abusement Park]

1) Mackinnon shouldn't make the same money (% wise) as Crosby or Ovi. Make Makar should. Maybe.

2) The point of this conversation isn't to know if it's "unprecendented" or not, it is "should it be done if you want to keep the team competitive".

What's your solution to Mack making to much money then?

 

[Balthazar]

What's your solution to Mack making to much money then?

Pay him and trade Rantanen next summer. There is no other solution that makes sense.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I don't think it was outrageous to think MacK would come in around $10M. The last big FA contracts under the flat cap time period to go off of none were above $10M and the best comparison is probably Barkov. Sure MacK can ask for whatever he wants but if it is unreasonable I would at least have him submit his list of teams to show if he plays hardball with the numbers so can the front office. It might force him to get more involved in negotiations unless MacK is the one insisting on the high number himself and not just the agent. Maybe kick the tires with Philly for a trade surrounding Couts who is also a pretty high end center with less scoring flair to his game but almost half the price signed long term and make Makar our real franchise player.

 

[Iceberg]

Pay him and trade Rantanen next summer. There is no other solution that makes sense.

So, you agree we should pay him...

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't think it was outrageous to think MacK would come in around $10M. The last big FA contracts under the flat cap time period to go off of none were above $10M and the best comparison is probably Barkov. Sure MacK can ask for whatever he wants but if it is unreasonable I would at least have him submit his list of teams to show if he plays hardball with the numbers so can the front office. It might force him to get more involved in negotiations unless MacK is the one insisting on the high number himself and not just the agent. Maybe kick the tires with Philly for a trade surrounding Couts who is also a pretty high end center with less scoring flair to his game but almost half the price signed long term and make Makar our real franchise player.

I mean he's better than Barkov. Since 17-18 Mack has 60 more points in 6 LESS games. Barkov's obviously got the better defensive game but it doesn't make up for the pretty sizeable gap offensively. So if Barkov is making 10, Mack will certainly be making more.

Also moving from Mack to Couts would end the contention window right then and there.

 

[Iceberg]

I don't think it was outrageous to think MacK would come in around $10M. The last big FA contracts under the flat cap time period to go off of none were above $10M and the best comparison is probably Barkov. Sure MacK can ask for whatever he wants but if it is unreasonable I would at least have him submit his list of teams to show if he plays hardball with the numbers so can the front office. It might force him to get more involved in negotiations unless MacK is the one insisting on the high number himself and not just the agent. Maybe kick the tires with Philly for a trade surrounding Couts who is also a pretty high end center with less scoring flair to his game but almost half the price signed long term and make Makar our real franchise player.

Couturier, really? That is awful.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Couturier, really? That is awful.

More of Couts as the baseline as we would need someone to take over for MacK because MacK is such a big name you could ask for quite a bit more since initially they would be saving cap the first year. Maybe like Couts, York, Tippett and Frost for MacK and whatever is needed to balance. It's not just about Couts but roster sustainability. Or you can just sign MacK to whatever and trade Rants and Toews later.

I mean he's better than Barkov. Since 17-18 Mack has 60 more points in 6 LESS games. Barkov's obviously got the better defensive game but it doesn't make up for the pretty sizeable gap offensively. So if Barkov is making 10, Mack will certainly be making more.

Also moving from Mack to Couts would end the contention window right then and there.

That's fair but it's the only good comparison and I'm not sure MacK is that far above the other players in those top tiers and I would definitely put Barkov in the top 10 centers and top 20 players.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think you have to expect some kind of drop off the last few years of the contract, but expectations are going to be awfully high for MacKinnon if he signs the McDavid contract, or anything above that.

He’ll need to be a top-5 player in the world for the next 4-5 seasons. If he does that, then I’ll have no issues with the deal.

 

[Eltuna]

What dead cap years? He only has 3 years left and he's still a high end 1C.

Also he was seen as generational at the signing and Mack isn't.

People just need to stop trying to justify Mack getting 12M+.

The dead cap years are the ones tacked to the end of the contract with a drastically lower cost than all other years. For Crosby it is his last 3 years.

Keith this coming year at 1.5 had he not retired and Hossa with his final 4 years at 1 million are other examples of the loophole. For an even more extreme case consider the Kovalchuk rejected 17 year contract where the last 5 years were given a value of only 550 thousand in order to lower the contracts total AAV.

Teams figured out how powerful this is which is why the league had to put controls in place and punish NJ hard for the attempted circumvention. Pitt and Chicago were just lucky they got theirs in and approved before the league cracked down on it.

 

[Avaholic29]

What dead cap years? He only has 3 years left and he's still a high end 1C.

Also he was seen as generational at the signing and Mack isn't.

People just need to stop trying to justify Mack getting 12M+.

People can justify Mack getting 12+ all day lmao, do you watch him play? He’s a game breaker and arguably a top 3 player in the Nhl. You clearly have some negativity issues surrounding the team. it’s been 2 months since the cup and our core is intact, would you trade rosters with anyone today? I wonder if Tampas board was this depressing after the first of 3 finals trips after making roster tweaks.

 

[dahrougem2]

Pay him and trade Rantanen next summer. There is no other solution that makes sense.

This one makes even less sense than doing nothing.

 

[FreudsLeatherJacket]

1) Mackinnon shouldn't make the same money (% wise) as Crosby or Ovi. Maybe Makar should. Maybe.

2) The point of this conversation isn't to know if it's "unprecendented" or not, it is "should it be done if you want to keep the team competitive".

Using that logic, Malkin made more % wise than Crosby. Kessel made 8 million, almost as much as Crosby and Malkin. The Pens were so competitive they won two more cups. If you include teams that lost in the final as "competitive," you could include several overpayments on several different teams.

You're talking about an overpayment of what, $1-1.5 millon for a top 2-5 forward in the league? Someone just below the level of McDavid, Crosby, and Ovi in their primes. If Mack signs 1 million more than he should the Avs are still competitive, especially considering our best player in Makar is significantly underpaid.

 

[redacted]

If goaltending and centres were locked down they’d be too expensive and we’d have shit wingers and not the best defense In the nhl.

Defense will stay expensive (maybe not this expensive, but close). Wings will have to come down. Can’t win without centers. Hard time winning without average goaltending (Avs did last year). Spending has to go up there and wings will need to be sacrificed.

With the current roster… pushing Rantanen to the middle is the best solution. If he can hack it, it rebalances things. If he can’t… paying him 12m would likely be a huge hardship for building centers back up.

 

[Foppa2118]

How much of Newhooks drop in play the second half and playoffs can be attributed to the rookie wall? Or is/was there much more to it than that?

I'd like to say it was the rookie wall and he'll perform better next season. I didn't mind the up/down movement between the 2nd/3rd lines as he was trying to find his game and Bednar was trying to work the roster into proper form. What I didn't like was the complete disappearance leading to healthy scratches. I really hope his compete level intensifies and becomes sustainable.

The same goes for LOC. I mean he's the perfect 4th liner right now. But we've got him slotted in for the 3rd line due to depth issues at the moment. He's capable of that play, but hasn't shown the ability to keep his play elevated for prolonged times with the extra minutes. Is that something he can overcome this season?

Some questions around this team, but with the core we've got we should be able to weather pretty much any storm until Joe can make a trade or two as necessary, I suppose.

College wall more than the rookie wall.

NCAA players typical have around a 20-30 game regular season depending on their team and may end up playing around 40 or so if they play tournaments and playoffs.

And Newy had played even less than normal with the COVID shortened seasons. He played 12 regular season games the season prior to his rookie year. Then 8 playoff games. Then 6 games with the Avs and 8 games with the Eagles. 34 games with decent sized breaks in between.

He went from that to playing a condensed 71 games with the Avs in the regular season. 10 game with the Eagles. Then 12 playoff games with the Avs.

So he went from playing 34 games with breaks throughout the year to 93 games in a condensed regular season and playoffs where he barely had any time off to recoup physically.

And you could see he hit the wall right around when college guys do. Somewhere around the 40-50 game mark. Where he went pointless in 10 games. Then he had a nice finish to the regular season. Immediately going from that 10 game pointless streak to putting up 8 points in 8 games towards the end of the regular season.

 

[Balthazar]

This one makes even less sense than doing nothing.

Makes more sense than having 8 players making league minimum on the roster.

 

[Balthazar]

People can justify Mack getting 12+ all day lmao, do you watch him play? He’s a game breaker and arguably a top 3 player in the Nhl. You clearly have some negativity issues surrounding the team.

Crazy how the fans that think it's reasonable to pay Mack whatever he wants are the same that don't want to trade anyone on the team if he makes big money.

Like the salary cap doesn't exist.

Bring me solutions then, I'm all ears. How will the team look like next year if Mack makes 13M? Go to capfriendly and have fun.

We're going to get cap crunched like the Hawks after their 3rd cup.

 

[Avaholic29]

Crazy how the fans that think it's reasonable to pay Mack whatever he wants are the same that don't want to trade anyone on the team if he makes big money.

Like the salary cap doesn't exist.

Bring me solutions then, I'm all ears. How will the team look like next year if Mack makes 13M? Go to capfriendly and have fun.

We're going to get cap crunched like the Hawks after their 3rd cup.

It’s a million more than giving him EJs money straight across. Compher off the books and an ELC in the line up. Cap is expected to rise which is why he’s asking for a bit more, it’s the cap % he takes up that matters. We will be fine book mark this.

 

[Balthazar]

It’s a million more than giving him EJs money straight across. Compher off the books and an ELC in the line up.

Which ELC are we talking about here? Who's going to replace EJ and JTC? Are they making any money?

What about Byram and Newhook?

 

[Avaholic29]

Which ELC are we talking about here? Who's going to replace EJ and JTC? Are they making any money?

What about Byram and Newhook?

The bottom of the line up and defense get weaker obviously but it isn’t so detrimental that it destroys the team. The core is as good as any in the league, surround them with player styles that effectively boost the team. The beauty of it all is that there is a team of knowledgeable people who get paid to handle just that sort of thing. We just need to see what happens with the cap rise honestly. You can’t tell me you’d trade spots with any other teams fans though and trading Mackinnon is just silly talk.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We simply cannot continue to spend over $30M on our Defense, and almost another $30M on our Top 6 wingers.

Which is exactly what we are doing right now.

That's 75% of our cap spent and not a dime of it on the most important position in hockey(1C). A guy who for us starting next year, will himself be making 15% of cap.

 

[Oblivion Beckons]

I don't think it was outrageous to think MacK would come in around $10M. The last big FA contracts under the flat cap time period to go off of none were above $10M and the best comparison is probably Barkov. Sure MacK can ask for whatever he wants but if it is unreasonable I would at least have him submit his list of teams to show if he plays hardball with the numbers so can the front office. It might force him to get more involved in negotiations unless MacK is the one insisting on the high number himself and not just the agent. Maybe kick the tires with Philly for a trade surrounding Couts who is also a pretty high end center with less scoring flair to his game but almost half the price signed long term and make Makar our real franchise player.

The Tavares free agency is why everyone should not have expected that. Tavares was offered $13 mil by the sharks and $11 mil with the 8th year by the Islanders. Tavares was the same age as MacKinnon will be when he is a UFA. Tavares a player who perhaps has never been considered a top 5 player in league versus MacKinnon who has been top 3 in production the last 5 years and top 4 in points per game. Flat cap or not top players are getting paid.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Dater thinks Nate will get $14.5M.