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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

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Pokecheque said:
That contract started in 2009-10 where he posted 79 points, then even with injuries still managed 57 the following season. Final year of that deal he posted 60 and centered (arguably) the team's most consistent line with Landeskog and MacKinnon on his wings. I don't see how he didn't live up to it. Injuries and I believe a hernia sidelined him for a couple years there, but if that's the reason he "didn't live up to that contract," then I guess Peter Forsberg didn't live up to his contracts either.

It seems to always be forgotten that the Avs largely wasted his prime years because they weren't even trying. It was supposedly a "rebuild" but really, we now know they weren't doing much building. In hindsight I kinda wonder why they were so intent on locking him up long-term when all they were doing is waiting out the CBA.
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.79PPG for 6.6M$ (lots of coin back then) with prime ice time is not that great.
 
Pokecheque said:
Well shit, we better tell Patrice Bergeron to give that money back to Boston since he's only 0.81 PPG, also with prime ice time and with WAY better linemates than Stazz ever had.
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Let's be real here. You are averaging PB's whole career vs Paul's prime, plus you know Selkes and SC/SCFs.

It's a matter of taste, I was always left wanting with Stastny and I was not the only one here. Good for you if you feel that Paul delivered.
 
Pokecheque said:
That contract started in 2009-10 where he posted 79 points, then even with injuries still managed 57 the following season. Final year of that deal he posted 60 and centered (arguably) the team's most consistent line with Landeskog and MacKinnon on his wings. I don't see how he didn't live up to it. Injuries and I believe a hernia sidelined him for a couple years there, but if that's the reason he "didn't live up to that contract," then I guess Peter Forsberg didn't live up to his contracts either.

It seems to always be forgotten that the Avs largely wasted his prime years because they weren't even trying. It was supposedly a "rebuild" but really, we now know they weren't doing much building. In hindsight I kinda wonder why they were so intent on locking him up long-term when all they were doing is waiting out the CBA.
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At the time of the signing the salary cap was at 56.8 million; Stastny’s CH% was at 11.64%. This year the cap is at 82.5 million, an equivalent cap hit would be around 9.6 million AAV to give you an idea on how the contract was judged.

It’s not unfair to say that he was overpaid, when his contract was signed he was being compared to Kopitar in a similar way that Hughes and Makar used to be compared, with many arguing on both sides. He definitely disappointed on what was expected of him when that contract was signed.
 
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Metallo said:
Let's be real here. You are averaging PB's whole career vs Paul's prime, plus you know Selkes and SC/SCFs.

It's a matter of taste, I was always left wanting with Stastny and I was not the only one here. Good for you if you feel that Paul delivered.
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Stazz is obviously not an elite two-way player like Bergeron but he's a two-way player nonetheless, and a good one. So I still don't buy the PPG argument. Those types of players usually don't achieve 1 PPG status, be it their primes or the course of their careers.

The "Casper" narrative is one I've taken issue with for years. For some reason Stastny gets the blame for not being a gamebreaking talent, when he never should have been put in that position in the first place. He was kept around as part of a rebuild that never really happened, and they never properly surrounded him with talent.
 
Eltuna said:
At the time of the signing the salary cap was at 56.8 million; Stastny’s CH% was at 11.64%. This year the cap is at 82.5 million, an equivalent cap hit would be around 9.6 million AAV to give you an idea on how the contract was judged.

It’s not unfair to say that he was overpaid, when his contract was signed he was being compared to Kopitar in a similar way that Hughes and Makar used to be compared, with many arguing on both sides. He definitely disappointed on what was expected of him when that contract was signed.
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Sorry, I don't see why he "underperformed" putting up the numbers he did on what were some really awful and poorly-coached Avs teams. Stastny got top dollar, yes, because at the time he proved himself to be a legit top line center. But I'll say it again, he never was a truly elite gamebreaking talent. If that's what people expected just because of the contract he was given, that's on them, not him.
 
I do remember being frustrated with Stastny's scoring post-2010, but not his overall play.

This board often talked about "getting Duchene a winger", but Stastny was truly saddled with crap. Look at his top-4 even strength line combos, by season:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Season[/TH]
[TH]LW[/TH]
[TH]C[/TH]
[TH]RW[/TH]
[TH]% together[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2010-2011[/TD]
[TD]T.J. Galiardi
David Jones
David Jones
David Jones[/TD]
[TD]Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny[/TD]
[TD]Chris Stewart
Chris Stewart
Ryan Stoa
Kevin Porter[/TD]
[TD]11.9%
10.1%
7.9%
5.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2011-2012[/TD]
[TD]Jamie McGinn
Matt Duchene
David Jones
David Jones[/TD]
[TD]Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny[/TD]
[TD]David Jones
Milan Hejduk
Milan Hejduk
Chuck Kobasew[/TD]
[TD]14.6%
11.3%
10.6%
6.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2012-2013[/TD]
[TD]Gabriel Landeskog
Jamie McGinn
Aaron Palushaj
John Mitchell[/TD]
[TD]Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny
Paul Stastny[/TD]
[TD]David Jones
David Jones
David Jones
David Jones[/TD]
[TD]17%
16.7%
9.1%
7.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You can't say he didn't make any of these players better, either, because their careers ended not long after leaving Colorado.

In hindsight it's a minor miracle Stastny sniffed 60 point seasons playing with those players.
 
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Yeah, TJ Galiardi and Chris Stewart were probably his best wingers during that stretch. I remember people on here was miffed because those wingers were taken off Duchene's line and put on Stastny's. How times change.
 
Coffeeguy said:
Didn't we sign Nuke to a 850k? Steel is still young enough, maybe he can thrive with a scenery change. He's more ready for NHL games than Kaut, Bowers and Ranta.
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Just because Val Nichushkin worked out (and it took him a while to work out) doesn't mean every buy-low candidate works out. Nichushkin is the exception, not the rule.

Sam Steel could hardly cut it on a Ducks team starving for offense and he was drafted as an offensive player, yet can hardly produce.
 
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dahrougem2 said:
Just because Val Nichushkin worked out (and it took him a while to work out) doesn't mean every buy-low candidate works out. Nichushkin is the exception, not the rule.
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People are quick to forget all the Yakupovs and the Colbornes of this world.
 
Pokecheque said:
Sorry, I don't see why he "underperformed" putting up the numbers he did on what were some really awful and poorly-coached Avs teams. Stastny got top dollar, yes, because at the time he proved himself to be a legit top line center. But I'll say it again, he never was a truly elite gamebreaking talent. If that's what people expected just because of the contract he was given, that's on them, not him.
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I don’t think anyone is debating that he was a good player and a net positive based on play alone for any team that he would have been on back then.

The argument was if he underperformed based on his contract which he did. For an example from todays game think of a guy like Seth Jones, good player but one that is unlikely to perform to his contract.

I think the problem is likely that you are seeing a 6.6 AAV in a 2022 lens without considering how much of the cap it was back then. He was paid as if he was a Makar/Rantanen level player and he never lived up to it. For those that were big Avs fans at the time they will remember a ton of discussion on it.
 
dahrougem2 said:
Just because Val Nichushkin worked out (and it took him a while to work out) doesn't mean every buy-low candidate works out. Nichushkin is the exception, not the rule.

Sam Steel could hardly cut it on a Ducks team starving for offense and he was drafted as an offensive player, yet can hardly produce.
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Well if Newhook excels at 2C. who goes to 3LW, Ranta? Kaut?Milano? Aston-Reese?
 
Eltuna said:
I don’t think anyone is debating that he was a good player and a net positive based on play alone for any team that he would have been on back then.

The argument was if he underperformed based on his contract which he did. For an example from todays game think of a guy like Seth Jones, good player but one that is unlikely to perform to his contract.

I think the problem is likely that you are seeing a 6.6 AAV in a 2022 lens without considering how much of the cap it was back then. He was paid as if he was a Makar/Rantanen level player and he never lived up to it. For those that were big Avs fans at the time they will remember a ton of discussion on it.
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I don't care how much of the cap he was eating up at the time, that's well in line with market value for a top line center, even back then, which he was.
 
If Rodrigues signs elsewhere it would be nice to add one of Motte or Aston-Reese. They're admittedly more 4th line types but their fore-checking style would be a great fit, especially Motte given that he's also a good PK'er.
 
Richard88 said:
If Rodrigues signs elsewhere it would be nice to add one of Motte or Aston-Reese. They're admittedly more 4th line types but their fore-checking style would be a great fit, especially Motte given that he's also a good PK'er.
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Don't we already have a shitload of 4th liners?

LOC
Helm
Cogliano
MacDermid
Meyers
Sedlak

Not even counting borderline AHL/NHL players like Maltsev, Megna, Blidh, Ranta or any potential "let's give him a chance" call-up such as Kaut.

Don't waste more money or contracts on the 4th line...I'd rather sign a 7th D if anything. I'd be fine with MacDermid not having to play D ever again in the NHL.
 
Avs_19 said:
Stastny tricked three separate franchises into thinking he was something that he wasn't. He's a legend at the bank for that.

Good and talented player who always left you wanting more for what his role and cap hit was.
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He's worth 1.5 for sure this year though
 
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Avs_19 said:
Stastny tricked three separate franchises into thinking he was something that he wasn't. He's a legend at the bank for that.

Good and talented player who always left you wanting more for what his role and cap hit was.
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Not only that but he's done it in this very low-key way. He's mostly stayed in mid-small markets and has flown below radar. Imagine him doing this in NYC or Toronto.
 
It’s amazing to resurrect the Casper argument from years ago all over again. Then you realize training camp and the SC title defense can’t come soon enough. I’d rather focus on future 2C possibilities and Stastny isn’t a part of that.
 
Balthazar said:
Don't we already have a shitload of 4th liners?

LOC
Helm
Cogliano
MacDermid
Meyers
Sedlak

Not even counting borderline AHL/NHL players like Maltsev, Megna, Blidh, Ranta or any potential "let's give him a chance" call-up such as Kaut.

Don't waste more money or contracts on the 4th line...I'd rather sign a 7th D if anything. I'd be fine with MacDermid not having to play D ever again in the NHL.
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IMO, basically the Avs are going to go into next season with two 4th lines and no legit 3rd line, minus one 2nd/3rd line forward (probably Compher). 5 out of 6 bottom forwards will be of the 4th line variety. They simply need a player or two to step up.

That's it. I honestly don't see another answer at this point.
 
ABasin said:
IMO, basically the Avs are going to go into next season with two 4th lines and no legit 3rd line, minus one 2nd/3rd line forward (probably Compher). They simply need a player or two to step up.

That's it. I honestly don't see another answer at this point.
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They have two 3rd liners, JTC and Newhook, and as of right now one of them is going to play 2C.

So we'll have a 3rd liner as a 2C and two 4th liners on the 3rd line. And that's if everyone is healthy (which won't happen).
 
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