Rumor: 2022-2023 Free Agency and Trade Rumors: STILL searching for a 2C

[thedoctor]

He's a low end 2nd liner who is versatile. Put him under $3m and he's got excess value for a full season... and you're expecting >$3m in total retention. $3m is roughly worth a 2nd for a full year's retention. Henrique is roughly worth a 2nd + B prospect on his own. That's roughly the same as a 1st + B prospect in total.

If he doesn't bring back a first, Anaheim really doesn't have a reason to trade him. They can hold on to him until next deadline and sell him for a 1st.

Henrique passed through waivers at his current AAV just 2 years ago, an admission he had negative value relative to his contract. He's playing better and there's less time on his contract, but he's also 2 years older. There's no way he's worth a 2nd + B prospect without retention.

That said, Anaheim is under no obligation to move him, and they could gamble he's still playing well next year when they could get as much if not more. There's a slight obligation to make it worth their while or they'll just walk.

all that to say, I continue to think our low '23 1st alone for Henrique @ 50% is about right.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Henrique passed through waivers at his current AAV just 2 years ago, an admission he had negative value relative to his contract. He's playing better and there's less time on his contract, but he's also 2 years older. There's no way he's worth a 2nd + B prospect without retention.

That said, Anaheim is under no obligation to move him, and they could gamble he's still playing well next year when they could get as much if not more. There's a slight obligation to make it worth their while or they'll just walk.

all that to say, I continue to think our low '23 1st alone for Henrique @ 50% is about right.

He's saying Henrique @50% retention is worth a 2nd + B prospect on his own.... Then, the $3M that you're asking Anaheim to retain is also worth a 2nd.


I'm not sure how much more it would take on top of the 23' 1st to get Henrique though. Obviously Ducks fans themselves dont represent Ducks management, but the majority of them that I have seen talking about Henrique are generally happy with a 1st round pick for Henrique at 50%, so long as the 1st is a 2023 1st and not 2024.

They'd all rather take slightly less value if it ensures getting a 1st in this years draft versus getting something like a 2024 1st + B prospect sort of thing.


IMO something like our 2023 1st + 2024 4th would get it done for Henrique @50%. Its also my favorite option for us at the deadline.

 

[Balthazar]

My problem with Henrique is he's been playing on the wing for a while and I wouldn't want another JTC/ERod type of winger/center hybrid.

It's not rare for centers to move to the wing when they get older because it's easier. It's possible that Henrique at age 33 is a winger now.

 

[henchman21]

Henrique passed through waivers at his current AAV just 2 years ago, an admission he had negative value relative to his contract. He's playing better and there's less time on his contract, but he's also 2 years older. There's no way he's worth a 2nd + B prospect without retention.

That said, Anaheim is under no obligation to move him, and they could gamble he's still playing well next year when they could get as much if not more. There's a slight obligation to make it worth their while or they'll just walk.

all that to say, I continue to think our low '23 1st alone for Henrique @ 50% is about right.

Huge difference going from ~4 years on a contract to 1.3 years. Especially with a flat cap and unknowns at that time. Now it is known what the cap will be this and next year. Teams are taking little risk there.

There isn't a tremendous difference between 1st alond and 1st + B prospect/young roster player. You're simply talking about including a guy like Ranta or not. But I'm not saying Henrique is directly 2nd + B... Henrique at 50% is 2nd + B and 2nd is for $3m for next year. That's 2 2nds + B... or roughly 1st + B.

My problem with Henrique is he's been playing on the wing for a while and I wouldn't want another JTC/ERod type of winger/center hybrid.

He's better than them, but he's not a legit 2C. And yeah that is my biggest issue.

 

[thedoctor]

Huge difference going from ~4 years on a contract to 1.3 years. Especially with a flat cap and unknowns at that time. Now it is known what the cap will be this and next year. Teams are taking little risk there.

There isn't a tremendous difference between 1st alond and 1st + B prospect/young roster player. You're simply talking about including a guy like Ranta or not. But I'm not saying Henrique is directly 2nd + B... Henrique at 50% is 2nd + B and 2nd is for $3m for next year. That's 2 2nds + B... or roughly 1st + B.


He's better than them, but he's not a legit 2C. And yeah that is my biggest issue.

I gotcha, I misunderstood. Thanks!

I still think a 1st alone is plenty, Henrique @ 50% for this year is worth less than a 2nd + B.

 

[henchman21]

I gotcha, I misunderstood. Thanks!

I still think a 1st alone is plenty, Henrique @ 50% for this year is worth less than a 2nd + B.

I disagree on the value. People severely underestimate what players bring at the deadline. Pretty mediocre players bring bigger returns. When you start paying for retention and excess value, the costs go up even more.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

My problem with Henrique is he's been playing on the wing for a while and I wouldn't want another JTC/ERod type of winger/center hybrid.

It's not rare for centers to move to the wing when they get older because it's easier. It's possible that Henrique at age 33 is a winger now.

Ya. If we're gonna use the first for a 2C. Let's actually get that. And if that means also putting in OO and another first, do it.

I'm okay with another JTC/ERod but that would have to be cheap. Just like how we got ERod for 2 mill in cap.

 

[Pokecheque]

My issue is there just isn't really a viable 2C available. Hayes maybe, still don't think Larkin is truly "available," but beyond that? I don't think there's anything out there.

So yeah, maybe you go and get Henrique to kind/sorta play a poor-man's Landeskog, take draws, do some center work from the wing, and use Rants or E-Rod as the 2C, then beef up the 3C spot with Bonino. That seems like a better "Plan C" to me than trying someone who probably can't be a 2C like Jenner and hoping he pans out.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Patiently waiting for @Bill Peckerskull to post some rumors.

 

[henchman21]

My issue is there just isn't really a viable 2C available. Hayes maybe, still don't think Larkin is truly "available," but beyond that? I don't think there's anything out there.

So yeah, maybe you go and get Henrique to kind/sorta play a poor-man's Landeskog, take draws, do some center work from the wing, and use Rants or E-Rod as the 2C, then beef up the 3C spot with Bonino. That seems like a better "Plan C" to me than trying someone who probably can't be a 2C like Jenner and hoping he pans out.

Yeah... this is why 'if they just get a 2C' statements' are rather pointless and kinda frustrating. There really isn't a 2C out there that you can legitimately say solves the issue. There are some that might, some that will be a band aid at best, and a bunch that won't do a single thing to change the trajectory.

Now you can always find a way to make players available, but do we really expect the Avs to put in both 1st, Behrens, Newhook and maybe more all in one deal? I certainly don't.

 

[forsbergavs32]

C-Mac scouting the Blues and potential Preds firesale. ROR and Dutchy are coming home

 

[henchman21]

C-Mac scouting the Blues and potential Preds firesale. ROR and Dutchy are coming home

Kill me.

 

[sethro109]

C-Mac scouting the Blues and potential Preds firesale. ROR and Dutchy are coming home

This post is cursed.

 

[The Merchant]

C-Mac scouting the Blues and potential Preds firesale. ROR and Dutchy are coming home

Let's bring Chris Stewart out of retirement while we're at it

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Let's bring Chris Stewart out of retirement while we're at it

ROR-Dutch-Stewie? Hell yea!

 

[forsbergavs32]

Let’s not go crazy. Stewart has almost gone full Adam Deadmarsh

 

[Avsboy]

Stewart isn’t a 2C. I want the 2Cs of the older days - the ones who played below Sakic but weren't overhyped disappointments like Wolski, Stastny, Arnason, Svatos, Duchene, etc, etc, etc. Give me Pierre Turgeon, the legend. Dependable Konowalchuk

 

[Pokecheque]

Stewart isn’t a 2C. I want the 2Cs of the older days - the ones who played below Sakic but weren't overhyped disappointments like Wolski, Stastny, Arnason, Svatos, Duchene, etc, etc, etc. Give me Pierre Turgeon, the legend. Dependable Konowalchuk

Stastny was only a disappointment in the warped minds of people who kept listening to Dater constantly harp on his contract. He was never the issue. Turgeon IIRC was only good when Svatos was scoring at will in the slot area.

Oh and *ahem* Steven Reinprecht was an adequate 2C back in the day. He was a rare bird in that he was good at the pivot but sucked at wing, and the Avs inexplicably kept putting him there.

 

[ANewHope]

Yeah... this is why 'if they just get a 2C' statements' are rather pointless and kinda frustrating. There really isn't a 2C out there that you can legitimately say solves the issue. There are some that might, some that will be a band aid at best, and a bunch that won't do a single thing to change the trajectory.

Now you can always find a way to make players available, but do we really expect the Avs to put in both 1st, Behrens, Newhook and maybe more all in one deal? I certainly don't.

Can't speak for others but I think it's because you don't need a legit 2C to have a chance at a cup with this roster IMO. Like yeah that would be ideal and if you got one you become the run away favorites in the West again but it's not just not realistic. I accepted the days of domination were done last year .. were not going to waltz to a cup with zero worry of losing. You won't win a cup losing 4 games. We'd need to add a Larkin/Barza/Petey etc. for that to happen and it's not realistic at all.

If the Avs can get healthy and can get someone who can be potentially serviceable at 2C with our wingers like Henrique/Hayes than I think they'll have a good shot to win the West again. Even guys like Toews/ROR if they could turn back the clock abit.

To me the biggest question mark will be health. Byram is Byram, who knows what Landeskog looks like, and Nuke likely won't look right the rest of the season/playoffs and that's far more concerning. We can add a Henrique/try and get another depth winger .. but won't mean much if the roster can't stay healthy.

 

[henchman21]

Can't speak for others but I think it's because you don't need a legit 2C to have a chance at a cup with this roster IMO. Like yeah that would be ideal and if you got one you become the run away favorites in the West again but it's not just not realistic. I accepted the days of domination were done last year .. were not going to waltz to a cup with zero worry of losing. You won't win a cup losing 4 games. We'd need to add a Larkin/Barza/Petey etc. for that to happen and it's not realistic at all.

If the Avs can get healthy and can get someone who can be potentially serviceable at 2C with our wingers like Henrique/Hayes than I think they'll have a good shot to win the West again. Even guys like Toews/ROR if they could turn back the clock abit.

To me the biggest question mark will be health. Byram is Byram, who knows what Landeskog looks like, and Nuke likely won't look right the rest of the season/playoffs and that's far more concerning. We can add a Henrique/try and get another depth winger .. but won't mean much if the roster can't stay healthy.

It is a VERY rare occurrence to not win a Cup without a legit 2C.

 

[pont]

C-Mac scouting the Blues and potential Preds firesale. ROR and Dutchy are coming home

Dutch and his facial 70's bikini line can stay in Nashville, thank you!

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Can't speak for others but I think it's because you don't need a legit 2C to have a chance at a cup with this roster IMO. Like yeah that would be ideal and if you got one you become the run away favorites in the West again but it's not just not realistic. I accepted the days of domination were done last year .. were not going to waltz to a cup with zero worry of losing. You won't win a cup losing 4 games. We'd need to add a Larkin/Barza/Petey etc. for that to happen and it's not realistic at all.

If the Avs can get healthy and can get someone who can be potentially serviceable at 2C with our wingers like Henrique/Hayes than I think they'll have a good shot to win the West again. Even guys like Toews/ROR if they could turn back the clock abit.

To me the biggest question mark will be health. Byram is Byram, who knows what Landeskog looks like, and Nuke likely won't look right the rest of the season/playoffs and that's far more concerning. We can add a Henrique/try and get another depth winger .. but won't mean much if the roster can't stay healthy.

Uhhh yeah, they definitely do.

 

[ANewHope]

It is a VERY rare occurrence to not win a Cup without a legit 2C.

Agreed but I think this roster falls into that category. I also think in general it's rare/hard to win a cup and you likely need all the required pieces combined with some luck. If the Avs added say Henrique/a good scoring 3rd line winger than if they managed to stay reasonable healthy I think we have the star power/defense to potentially win a cup if things go right and we the needed luck. Just won't be like last year where we were still beating teams deep into the playoffs with JTC at 2C and dominating them with Kadri.

I think if you add a fringe 2C + another decent player than the Avs will have like the 3rd-6th best odds at the cup assuming were relatively healthy which seems like a pipedream at this point.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Let’s not go crazy. Stewart has almost gone full Adam Deadmarsh

So he’s even bigger? We are going to be unstoppable

 

[ANewHope]

Uhhh yeah, they definitely do.

I mean pretty sure you had the Blues beating us at one point .. and we ended up winning playoff games with JTC at 2C lol

Blackhawks won with a 35 year old Handzus at C and with a 34 year old Brad Richards. Nuke/Landy surrounding something like Hayes/Henrique would be doable if the Avs got a little luck on the way and MacKinnon/Makar/Rants/Toews/Byram etc. played up to there potential. Certainly wouldn't be last year and there would be some close moments but if it happened it wouldn't be shocking at all.

I think it comes down to personal expectations. Like yeah the Avs aren't going to be the run away favorites ever again unless they land a fringe 1C/very high end 2C and that's just never going to happen unless they shake things up significantly.